Do you fear an Operative?

[_Morholt_]

I'm not sure if I should laugh or take offense.

 

I have no idea where you get your numbers from, but I last far longer than 10-15 seconds in a fight. Oh, much longer. I outlast the big Juggy/Guardian/Assassin tanks all the time. I'm sorry it offends you to run into an Operative who can do that, but I do.

 

Are you serious......like really are you serious! The only reason you last 15 seconds is because nobody bothers to kill you because you don't do anything. Like I can have a fully BMed Op on my nuts as a healer and have no problems walking him over to the fight and stun him so he dies. The 'best' Operative on our server does NOT even bother to attack me any more.....and actually he respecced heals because Ops are so weak atm.

 

 

Right, see, in ranked matches I have this little thing called Sleep Dart. I can hold a node against 4... 5 attackers with near impunity.

 

Buddy, I AM the game changer.

 

Sleep Dart only cc's 1 person, so you are obviously BS'ing....because if 4 people got on you, you would die in under 2 seconds no problem because Dodge and Defense screen do not block all types of damage.

 

You should stop talking.

Edited March 7, 2012 by _Morholt_

[TheGreatNeechi]

Are you serious......like really are you serious! The only reason you last 15 seconds is because nobody bothers to kill you because you don't do anything. Like I can have a fully BMed Op on my nuts as a healer and have no problems walking him over to the fight and stun him so he dies. The 'best' Operative on our server does NOT even bother to attack me any more.....and actually he respecced heals because Ops are so weak atm.

 

 

 

Sleep Dart only cc's 1 person, so you are obviously BS'ing....because if 4 people got on you, you would die in under 2 seconds no problem because Dodge and Defense screen do not block all types of damage.

 

You should stop talking.

 

Sleep dart CCs one, yes, but it has no cooldown but global... so... tab targets, sleep as necessary, rinse, repeat. The best thing they can do is pop their CC breaker and hope I miss that tiny, tiny little window when the Resolve runs right when the cap completes.

 

Of course, "I popped my CC breaker to get out of sleep dart!" Right... *attack*

 

Really, do your homework, Healer.

 

Oh, and I haven't met a healer I can't gank. The top Sages on my server know to watch their a**es when I'm in a battle with them.

Edited March 7, 2012 by TheGreatNeechi

[TheGreatNeechi]

You change nothing noob. You really should stop posting when someone who clearly has played much more than you says you are wrong.

 

10-15 seconds into any fight YOU WILL BE OUT OF ENERGY. I actually have pugnacity going beforehand most of the time and I still run out of energy within 10-15 seconds of opening on someone... hopefully they are dead. If they are guarded... LOL.

 

Sleep Dart doesn't do squat... it just fills someone's resolve bar. I mean you clearly haven't played against anyone with a brain because if there is more than 1 enemy they will just look for you and rip you out of stealth. It must be nice playing bad people who don't put down AoE fields or stealth scanning abilities.

 

Man I love people who probably just hit 50 are like 'were fine guys... I won ONE GAME... I was really awesome.... it really must be each and every one of you'.

 

It's called Stim Boost, Adrenal Probe, and pacing. I'm sorry you go all out and find yourself out of energy in 15 seconds. I don't. Sorry. Unlike you I actually use all of my abilities, including those really pesky ones that don't regard Resolve, like Distraction and Sever Tendon.

 

It is not I who has issues being a "newb". Come back when you have deeper command of your abilities.

[Seravis]

As a marauder I actually DO fear a Scoundrels. In fact it is the only class I can't reliably beat 1v1. Fights tends to go like this.

 

Scoundrel opens on me and drops me to ~50% of my hp in the opening stuns even after breaking the 4 second stun. I then proceed to pop my defensive CDs and prepare for a drawn out battle. Unfortunately the scoundrel vanishes and waits 10 seconds for my defenses to drop. The Scoundrel opens on me again dropping me to ~10% hp before I can respond. Now I am sitting at 10% hp with 0 rage. I might be able to do some damage to the operative before I die if I pop every CD I have, but I will lose regardless at this point.

 

You complain that your vanish has a 2 minute CD and is too high. Well in that example I just popped my 3 minute CD and still lost miserably.

 

You play a class that is an absolute monster in 1v1 and has the best initial burst damage in the game on top of good CC. In order to do that you sacrifice your effectiveness at long drawn out battles. Welcome to the world of a Squishy Stealth Melee Burst dps class. Play to your strengths. Coordinate with another Scoundrel and drop targets together. Most people won't be able to respond at all and die in the stuns. Stop playing like a tanky dps class and more like a squishy burst dps class. You have the best class for coordinating with 1-2 others and bursting someone down in a few seconds all while stunning them, and you are the best 1v1 class.

 

I would rather be jumped by 3 marauders than 3 scoundrels. At least it'll take 7+ seconds for the marauders to build rage and apply their bleeds before I start dieing and I can see it coming a mile away and pop my defensive CDs. Against those 3 operatives I will be dead long before 7 seconds, and maybe get 1 ability off with my CC breaker.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Seravis

[BobaFurz]

And if you are annihilation marauder even more, they just dispel your main dmg

[Teabaker]

1v1 yes, team fights no.

[Ainianu]

Operatives are the only class in pvp i do fear, the only class that can 'solo' me without me being able to press a single button before i die.. (unless my CC breaker is up, then i may be able to have a chance to escape or such )

[WasabiJack]

As a marauder I actually DO fear a Scoundrels. In fact it is the only class I can't reliably beat 1v1. Fights tends to go like this.

 

Scoundrel opens on me and drops me to ~50% of my hp in the opening stuns even after breaking the 4 second stun. I then proceed to pop my defensive CDs and prepare for a drawn out battle. Unfortunately the scoundrel vanishes and waits 10 seconds for my defenses to drop. The Scoundrel opens on me again dropping me to ~10% hp before I can respond. Now I am sitting at 10% hp with 0 rage. I might be able to do some damage to the operative before I die if I pop every CD I have, but I will lose regardless at this point.

 

You complain that your vanish has a 2 minute CD and is too high. Well in that example just popped my 3 minute CD and still lost miserably.

 

You play a class that is an absolute monster in 1v1 and has the best initial burst damage in the game on top of good CC. In order to do that you sacrifice your effectiveness at long drawn out battles. Welcome to the world of a Squishy Stealth Melee Burst dps class. Play to your strengths. Coordinate with another Scoundrel and drop targets together. Most people won't be able to respond at all and die in the stuns. Stop playing like a tanky dps class and more like a squishy burst dps class. You have the best class for coordinating with 1-2 others and bursting someone down in a few seconds all while stunning them, and you are the best 1v1 class.

 

I would rather be jumped by 3 marauders than 3 scoundrels. At least it'll take 7+ seconds for the marauders to build rage and apply their bleeds before I start dieing and I can see it coming a mile away and pop my defensive CDs. Against those 3 operatives I will be dead long before 7 seconds, and maybe get 1 ability off with my CC breaker.

 

 

The vanish on the scoundrel takes him out of combat and hence you out of combat. What you should do immediately is hit your rest button to regenerate your hp.

 

The scoundrel should do one of two things:

1) Reopen if your resolve is full (Unwise decision)

2) Tranquilize you if your resolve is not full (Smart Scoundrel)

3) Run if your resolve is full (Smart Scoundrel)

 

*This is assuming equal skill

 

This will put you back on equal grounds.

 

There is still much more to the fight but the situation is not hopeless as you say.

 

Also, a good scoundrel will never (should never) use vanish offensively unless it ensures the kill and there is a certain path to escape.

 

Against a marauder, I would open, open screen, then just continue to attack him untill he pops his defensive cooldowns, which he will. At this time, the resolve would have gone down. When he does pop those defensive coold downs, you root and get f out of there. They will break because if they don't, they are screwed anyway. When they break you should flash bang. Heal Up! if you need, sabatog/flyby on his location and back blast... These should land approximately at the same time.

 

The difference between a win and loss is the decision the two make and the dots that are on the scoundrel when the flash bang goes off.

 

The fight is not easy because a scrapper's flechette round puts a dot on the maurader and the flash bang has to be timed just right or they will break from dot damage.

 

The point I wanted to get out is, it's a tough fight on both sides when the players are both skilled in their class. I think the scoundrel has a slight advantage in 1 on 1 and the marauder has a significant advantage in group fights because of their group buffs.

Edited March 7, 2012 by WasabiJack

[Seravis]

The vanish on the scoundrel takes him out of combat and hence you out of combat. What you should do immediately is hit your rest button to regenerate your hp.

 

The scoundrel should do one of two things:

1) Reopen if your resolve is full (Unwise decision)

2) Tranquilize you if your resolve is not full (Smart Scoundrel)

3) Run if your resolve is full (Smart Scoundrel)

 

*This is assuming equal skill

 

This will put you back on equal grounds.

 

There is still much more to the fight but the situation is not hopeless as you say.

 

Throw a dot on the marauder before vanishing. Now he can't rest. Operatives very much destroy marauders who are often called 'the best" 1v1 class.

[WasabiJack]

Throw a dot on the marauder before vanishing. Now he can't rest. Operatives very much destroy marauders who are often called 'the best" 1v1 class.

 

hmmm I am pretty sure they can wipe the dot... I am not 100% sure but they vanish just fine with dots on. Never played one, just what I've seen, may be wrong here. Would really appreciate some feedback from a mar/sent on this.

[GrandMike]

Apparently we are. I see a lot of: "Operatives are so weak."

 

I am by no means weak, then again I am a DPS Operative. I'm very glad I didn't respec to healing after 1.1.1 because apparently that's still broken.

 

Not sure why more Operatives don't go Concealment. I guess it takes more effort to work.

 

Compare operative/scoudrel to shadow/assassin and you will see why noone wants to play operative/scoundrel concealment.

 

Its not that scoundrel is terrible, but if you want really good stealth class you will go shadow - it has everything scoundrel has + many many things extra on top of that. Pretty much if anyone manages to get out of 10m range on your operative you can just write it off.

 

And for defending objective against 4-5 opponents - only in your dreams. You will be popped out of stealth, stunned and killed in 3s if your opponents have >2 live braincells.

 

Any opponent that just stands there and wait for you to open on them for a 2nd time deserves loser on their forehead.

 

Marauders are not much of a problem. What exactly will you do when juggy launches you over half of WZ? Against shadow that has all you have and tons of extra on top of that?

 

What will you do in voidstar when you are out of stealth 90% of the time?...unless you die all the time

 

Of course, marauders CDs are shorter, so if he comes back for 2nd round his cds will be up while your cds will still be on CD. SO you will lose that one if he manages to pop you out of stealth, and he will by just capping the objective.

Edited March 7, 2012 by GrandMike

[Seravis]

hmmm I am pretty sure they can wipe the dot... I am not 100% sure but they vanish just fine with dots on. Never played one, just what I've seen, may be wrong here. Would really appreciate some feedback from a mar/sent on this.

 

Marauders cannot cleanse themselves at all. Their 4 second temporary vanish grants damage immunity for the duration if specced for, and that's why it doesn't break but does not cleanse anything.

[Seravis]

Compare operative/scoudrel to shadow/assassin and you will see why noone wants to play operative/scoundrel concealment.

 

Its not that scoundrel is terrible, but if you want really good stealth class you will go shadow - it has everything scoundrel has + many many things extra on top of that. Pretty much if anyone manages to get out of 10m range on your operative you can just write it off.

 

And for defending objective against 4-5 opponents - only in your dreams. You will be stunned and killed in 3s if your opponents have >2 live braincells.

 

Scoundrels have very powerful initial burst while assassins are tanky dps that need time to set up their burst. Both have their strengths. And even then Scoundrels are the kings of 1v1. And also I have a feeling most tank/dps hybrids like shadows are going to get hit with the nerfbat soon for having a combination of doing too much damage while being too tanky while having too much CC/utility.

 

If anyone manages to get out of a marauders FOUR meter range they can COMPLETELY write them off. It doesn't mean marauders are bad.

 

Also anyone short of a tank is going to die in 3s to 4-5 people. hell get 4-5 operatives and you can kill ANYONE in 1-2 GCDs with no warning.

[GrandMike]

Scoundrels have very powerful initial burst while assassins are tanky dps that need time to set up their burst. Both have their strengths. And even then Scoundrels are the kings of 1v1. And also I have a feeling most tank/dps hybrids like shadows are going to get hit with the nerfbat soon for having a combination of doing too much damage while being too tanky while having too much CC/utility.

 

If anyone manages to get out of a marauders FOUR meter range they can COMPLETELY write them off. It doesn't mean marauders are bad.

 

Also anyone short of a tank is going to die in 3s to 4-5 people. hell get 4-5 operatives and you can kill ANYONE in 1-2 GCDs with no warning.

 

Marauders/sentinels have nice skill called leap. 30m range. On 15/12s CD.

 

Killing 1 person on 1-2 GCDs is all nice and dandy but what happens afterwards is dead 4-5 operatives. Out of stealth i cant really think of class you will win against.

 

Shadows burst, if specced correctly, is not so much lower than scoundrels. In my experience so far scoundrel can do 16-17k damage quite fast. After that its weaksauce, you have to start using high cost attacks which will drain your energy very fast or lot of free attack which doesnt really cut it. You have no reliable means of generatung upper hand. Considering shadows assasins run around with 22-24k and have high defences you loese by default. Not even second opener helps much.

 

But thats the problem, if they up the burst, other classes will die too fast, if they keep it like it is, scoundrel loses his true purpose. Havent really figured out how to solve it except make it more like shadow.

Edited March 7, 2012 by GrandMike

[Caeliux]

I used to, now I use skill and stab them in the knee.

[Seravis]

 

Any opponent that just stands there and wait for you to open on them for a 2nd time deserves loser on their forehead.

 

Marauders are not much of a problem. What exactly will you do when juggy launches you over half of WZ? Against shadow that has all you have and tons of extra on top of that?

 

What will you do in voidstar when you are out of stealth 90% of the time?...unless you die all the time

 

Of course, marauders CDs are shorter, so if he comes back for 2nd round his cds will be up while your cds will still be on CD. SO you will lose that one if he manages to pop you out of stealth, and he will by just capping the objective.

 

What am I suppose to do as a marauder after a scoundrel vanishes while I'm dotted?

 

In an even wz most classes die all the time in voidstar. its just a matter of when its your turn to be focused by 5 people.

 

Wait marauders CDs are shorter? is your defensive CD longer than a 3 minute CD?

Edited March 7, 2012 by Seravis

[Seravis]

Marauders/sentinels have nice skill called leap. 30m range. On 15/12s CD.

 

Killing 1 person on 1-2 GCDs is all nice and dandy but what happens afterwards is dead 4-5 operatives. Out of stealth i cant really think of class you will win against.

 

Shadows burst, if specced correctly, is not so much lower than scoundrels.

 

Scoundrels have this nice ability called stealth and vanish to get to their target while unseen. Both classes have a single "closer" and a single "vanish". Except one has a maximum range of 4m and needs 4-5 GCDs of being in melee combat before doing any damage.

 

You were implying you were defending solo and already opened on one of them before they focused you in 3s. If we're are talking about multiple defender then you won't be the first to die thanks to being in stealth when those 4-5 people decide to focus someone in 3s anyway.

 

Yes shadows do burst. They just don't do it in the first 2 GCDs of a fight. Find a way to use the highest initial burst in the game to your advantage.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Seravis

[GrandMike]

What am I suppose to do as a marauder after a scoundrel vanishes while I'm dotted?

 

Vanish yourself and go away. And come back for 2nd round. Now he cant kill you for at least 2 minutes.

 

In an even wz most classes die all the time in voidstar. its just a matter of when its your turn to be focused by 5 people.

 

Not at all. If healers are decent theres not many deaths. And if they are smart they will kill you last because out of stealth you dont really do much due to energy/class mechanics. You are lowest threat mark.

 

Wait marauders CDs are shorter? is your defensive CD longer than a 3 minute CD?

 

Sentinel:

 

Force camouflage 45s

Guarded by force 90s

 

Scoundrel: vanish 120s

 

Scoundrels have this nice ability called stealth and vanish to get to their target while unseen. Both classes have a single "closer" and a single "vanish". Except one has a maximum range of 4m and needs 4-5 GCDs of being in melee combat before doing any damage.

 

Dont really know what you talk about. I was pretty clear: once you get out of 10m range of operative, operative has NO means of closing the gap. Be it knockback, force sprint, stun+run...

 

You were implying you were defending solo and already opened on one of them before they focused you in 3s. If we're are talking about multiple defender then you won't be the first to die thanks to being in stealth when those 4-5 people decide to focus someone in 3s anyway.

 

I wasnt implying anything. If you read posts of person i quoted (and i guess thats part of participating in the dicussion) he claimed he can defend objective against 4-5 opponents, no problem.

 

Yes shadows do burst. They just don't do it in the first 2 GCDs of a fight. Find a way to use the highest initial burst in the game to your advantage.

 

You should really look at flow of the fight. What does ti matter when damage happens if after 4-5 GCDs result is the same?

 

Nobody dies in 2 GCDs.

Edited March 7, 2012 by GrandMike

[zizzefex]

It's called Stim Boost, Adrenal Probe, and pacing. I'm sorry you go all out and find yourself out of energy in 15 seconds. I don't. Sorry. Unlike you I actually use all of my abilities, including those really pesky ones that don't regard Resolve, like Distraction and Sever Tendon.

 

It is not I who has issues being a "newb". Come back when you have deeper command of your abilities.

 

Your absolutely terrible and I would love playing you over and over again.

 

You have absolutely no clue what your doing. You just like talking and making **** up.

[Seravis]

Vanish yourself and go away. Now he cant kill you for at least 2 minutes.

 

 

 

Not at all. If healers are decent theres no many deaths.

 

 

 

Sentinel:

 

Force camouflage 45s

Guarded by force 90s

 

Scoundrel: vanish 120s

 

Marauders vanish lasts 4 seconds. They won't get away They'll get more like 5 steps away. You can deny it all you want but Operatives dominate all 1v1s against most classes and are at a slight advantage against the rest.

 

Have 3 operatives all open on a single healer at once. There will be a death.

 

Saber ward 180s

 

A marauder can pop every CD vs an operative including their 3 minute CD and still LOSE. And you complain your 2 minute CD is too long to WIN.

 

And as for having more defensive CDs. That is because marauders are a dot class that take 7+ seconds of being in melee before they do any real damage due to basically starting all fights at 0 "energy" unlike a scoundrel which does their giant burst in the first 2-3 GCDs. Oh and scoundrels have far more CC options. Both classes have their strengths and weaknesses. If you don't feel that winning all 1v1s, and being the best class to burst down targets in group pvp, and having good CC isn't enough then what more do you want on top of that?

[Seravis]

 

 

Dont really know what you talk about. I was pretty clear: once you get out of 10m range of operative, operative has NO means of closing the gap. Be it knockback, force sprint, stun+run...

 

 

 

I wasnt implying anything. If you read posts of person i quoted (and i guess thats part of participating in the dicussion) he claimed he can defend objective against 4-5 opponents, no problem.

 

 

 

You should really look at flow of the fight. What does ti matter when damage happens if after 4-5 GCDs result is the same?

 

Nobody dies in 2 GCDs.

 

Scoundrel=Take 50% of a target hp in a stun before they use their knock back. Then vanish permanently.

Marauder=Leap to the target and hit them with battering assault for 5% of their hp before getting knocked back. Use vanish for 4 seconds. Can leap again in 12 seconds.

 

Apples and oranges. Both have their advantages. I am sure you can see them.

 

And an operative can "defend" and objective for probably the longest time by smart use of their stealth, mez, and vanish, but not by THAT much more than anyone else.

 

 

Get 3 Marauders on a sorc and count how long it takes them to kill it.

Get 3 Scoundrels on a sorc and count how long it takes them to kill it.

You will see where Scoundrels excel.

Burst damage and CC is KING in pvp. Dps only wins when the other team fails to coordinate the burst and CC.

[_Morholt_]

Scoundrel=Take 50% of a target hp in a stun before they use their knock back. Then vanish permanently.

Marauder=Leap to the target and hit them with battering assault for 5% of their hp before getting knocked back. Use vanish for 4 seconds. Can leap again in 12 seconds.

 

Apples and oranges. Both have their advantages. I am sure you can see them.

 

And an operative can "defend" and objective for probably the longest time by smart use of their stealth, mez, and vanish, but not by THAT much more than anyone else.

 

 

Get 3 Marauders on a sorc and count how long it takes them to kill it.

Get 3 Scoundrels on a sorc and count how long it takes them to kill it.

You will see where Scoundrels excel.

Burst damage and CC is KING in pvp. Dps only wins when the other team fails to coordinate the burst and CC.

 

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. 3 Marauders>>>>>>>>3 Scoundrels. In fact 2 Marauders is worth 3 Scoundrels.

 

And neither does the other guy that thinks he can defend a tower 1v4 that only works vs complete *******. Much like everyone else here that has called BS on that haha....completely impossible vs competent people.

 

Them healers on your server must be aweful because every op without full BM+stims+adrenals couldn't get me under 70% and even a BM one can't get me under 50% before I'm up walking him over to a nearby fight and stun and or dotting him thereby making him completely useless.

 

And IF I have guard on me, don't make me laugh...an Op would be lucky to hit me for 2k damage on their opener, 1k damage per afterwards...oh man that's totally unhealable.

Edited March 7, 2012 by _Morholt_

[westfelt]

operatives still the highest front loaded burst in the game. I suspect that once rated WZs come out the QQ will return. Good ops can still burst down BM geared players within seconds. this will be critical when high ELO players learn to burst down the tank and CC the healer.

 

At the moment with Champion and some Rakata gear Hidden strike (op/scoundrel need to be in stealth & behind opener) does 2100-2200 dmg base. If I use Rakata Adrenal & the champion +power trinket & acid blade (DoT + 30% armour reduction) I can crit for above 4k but only on a lightly armoured target Sorc/Sage. It happens pretty seldom so im guessing that with a champion or better geared Sorc ill crit above 3k but less then 4k.

 

Assuming a best case scenario "imba operative burst dps" will be 3,5k x 2 = 7k on a lightly armoured target. To do this kind of dmg the operative needs to be in stealth and open up from behind on a target with light armour. Also Adrenal and trinket must be up & the operative also has to burn his Cloaking Screen (leaves the op with no defensive cooldown left but a 3s white dmg evade) This is also assuming that the operative crits 100% of the strikes. With 50% crit chance the "imba op burst" will be 3,5k + 1,75k = 5k or so dmg. Every atk that comes after hidden strike can't be considered "imba op burst" because all other classes can do equal or alot more dps.

 

Talented I belive that the Sorcs/Sage bubble is around 4k. So in other words, I can use my imba operative dps to remove the bubble and do 1k dmg to the average Sorc. I am not saying that operatives/scoundrels can't do dmg but this talk about us having burst dps that "kills BM geared players in seconds" is just a lie.

[AlyxDinas]

Late to the conversation but they don't do much more than annoy me. They still have decent control, which can muck with my mobility. They're not much of a threat in terms of being able to take me down unless they're picking me off after a fight and I'm at, like, 5%. And really, I can't get mad at them for doing what they're meant to be doing.

 

Middle of a battle or en route to an objective? Less a threat, more like gadflies. And if they're spending so much time attacking me, they're not attacking, say, the ball carrier, right?

Edited March 7, 2012 by AlyxDinas

[arcadeboredom]

Not really sure I believe any of that...

 

200k as Operative? That's approaching level 50 Sage/Sorc damage output. At 39?

 

You're taking some poetic license with this.

 

err... I used to do 290-300k on my level 38+ pyro powertech in voidstar all the time and usually 15k+ protection using taunts.

 

as for your sleeping dart... Assassins/shadows have that too whilst also getting speed boost, guard, taunt, aoe knockback, pull etc etc.