Varicite Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I only need two attacks that bypass armor to melt your face 1v1 anyhow. If you're a sentinel or shadow, this is probably true. If not, good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Ummm no. Most sorc spells are force/elemental.... Force bypasses shields.... Elemental bypasses armor. Just a fyi, Sorc spells are mostly kinetic damage. The lightning attacks are considered kinetic damage. They are mitigated by armor. Because they are classified as Force attacks, they do indeed bypass shields. Edited March 5, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savionen Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Things listed as "damage reduction in talents/skills" work on all damage. The difference between Light Armor and Medium Armor you can't really tell a difference in PvP. Light Armor and tanking in Heavy Armor there's definitely a big difference, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticoccus Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Ummm no. Most sorc spells are force/elemental.... Force bypasses shields.... Elemental bypasses armor. Most sorc spells are force/ENERGY you mean? Energy damage is affected by armor just like kinetic damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticoccus Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 If you're a sentinel or shadow, this is probably true. If not, good luck. Watchman, I wuvs my face melting skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Watchman, I wuvs my face melting skills. lol, if you have cds up, it's pretty much no contest. Marauder/Sent is the best 1v1 class that I've seen thus far. Not to say that my PT isn't also a killing machine, though. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogmar Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I think the role of a pure tank doesn't belong in PvP in the first place, so I wouldn't really fault SWTOR for what they did. That said, they didn't reinvent anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crunchyblack Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Without collisions, tanking is nothing more than a weak DPS that goes down slow. Collisions give the possibility to sheild healers by physically blocking, and give the oppertunity to utilize choke points (grated the game has choke points in pvp) Also, the game lacks any reason to "point tank" meaning staying on a spot for extended periods of time, something built for a tank. Ok so they gave a guard shield, and then gives medals for tanks who use it...its something passive and something that doesn make being a tank in pvp any more fun. Going the route of constantly changing who you guard based on the situation gets to be just like a sorc popping static barrier and getting heal stats for it...its just not a fun route to take, however usefull either classes sheild can be, part of this is the terrible UI that makes selecting the right player during frantic pvp a hot mess. Actually i do remember stopping by EQ2 not all that long ago, they implimented instanced pvp, and the tanks could taunt you, automatically changing your selected target to them. They could actually tank quite well, and honestly it was a great strategy that the tanks would run around and taunt the dps classes, since they were hard to bring down...a good tank could turn the tide of the fight this way since it wasnt a matter of quickly bringing down their healers since the tank could taunt you right before a nuke went off and it would hit him rather than the heals. I thought it worked well. So aside from the lack of a need to point tank, lack of collision dynamics needing a larger body size and high health, and the fact that tanks are not all that hard to bring down...the guard shield seems like an effort to make tanks have at least something they can do in pvp...since there is a real lacking of need for one. Honestly the less tanks on my WZ side the better, aside from mabey one to guard shield the main healer. As for being fun, definately the least entertaining classes to pvp with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) You've got to give credit where it's due, the guard/taunt system in pvp was at the very least innovative. Tanks in other pvp were simply damage sponges, they could take a lot of damage without dying, so people just didn't attack them and for the most part tanks were left out of competitive pvp. Here they really aren't THAT much more survivable than other classes, but their job isn't just to sponge damage, it's to prevent their squishier teammates from taking as much damage, which in pvp was a relatively new idea and fits the role well. So yeah, I'd have to say that they did reinvent the tank's role in pvp. Edited March 5, 2012 by Aidank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 You've got to give credit where it's due, the guard/taunt system in pvp was at the very least innovative. Tanks in other pvp were simply damage sponges, they could take a lot of damage without dying, so people just didn't attack them and for the most part tanks were left out of competitive pvp. Here they really aren't THAT much more survivable than other classes, but their job isn't just to sponge damage, it's to prevent their squishier teammates from taking as much damage, which in pvp was a relatively new idea and fits the role well. So yeah, I'd have to say that they did reinvent the tank's role in pvp. It was innovative when WAR did it. This is just a rehash from the same pvp team. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Looks like "OMG YOU SAID THEY BYPASSED ARMOR" crowd is back in this topic. Completely ignoring all the other things bypassed as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Looks like "OMG YOU SAID THEY BYPASSED ARMOR" crowd is back in this topic. Completely ignoring all the other things bypassed as usual. By all the other things, I can only assume you mean shields. Which is like... one thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) you also get straight damage reduction from that stance. damage reduction cant be taken away, armor can by some pretty large percentages Soresu only gives me like 6% dam reduction. That's not very huge. The armor increase on the other hand is something like 20% or so, which makes a noticeable difference. What is a tanks job? Prevent teammates from taking as much damage as possible. In this respect, I think BW did a good job because with guard and taunts, you can literally stop the enemy teams assist train. Edited March 5, 2012 by Smashbrother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainInsano Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 They didn't reinvent jack. They just shamelessly copy/pasted the tank system from Warhammer Online because it's the same "veteran" PvP team. Everything PvPwise in this game was ripped directly from WAR with a few changes, many for the worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maticlandarr Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 If i remember right, ffxi had an otherwise awful pvp system that did one thing interesting; taunting enemies made them target you just like in pve. I always wondered why no other games do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajbryant Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 If i remember right, ffxi had an otherwise awful pvp system that did one thing interesting; taunting enemies made them target you just like in pve. I always wondered why no other games do that. Everquest IIs pvp worked that way as well. I think the reason more MMOs don't do that is because with targeting systems that are as terrible as the one found in this game re targeting to your original target isn't easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 If i remember right, ffxi had an otherwise awful pvp system that did one thing interesting; taunting enemies made them target you just like in pve. I always wondered why no other games do that. What would that accomplish? A person simply has to retarget their original target, which isn't that big of an issue. I'd rather have BW's system where taunts decrease an enemy players damage by 30% to anyone else but themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbizzle Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Taunt is identical to warhammer online. so is guard. identical. Incorrect. Guarding in warhammer was smoother, didnt bug and not let you guard an unguarded person sometimes. You could also cross-guard and multi guard people. Taunts decreased enemy damage on people other than you by 30% and -increased your damage to them by 30%- That part is gone. God forbid they put that part back in Im going to be able to do a 10k burst on my assualt specced vanguard with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinemetu Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I don't know about the whole "reinventing" thing, but making taunt useful in pvp is an incredibly good idea. The only problem is that tanking stats are mostly meaningless in pvp, but that can be solved by recategorizing skills considered tech into melee/ranged. Oh, but not force attacks because the force-wielding classes are clearly underperforming atm. That makes sense. Not. Freaking Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticoccus Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I already find it funny that I can do a damn vacuum cut with my lightsabers... =p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 What would that accomplish? A person simply has to retarget their original target, which isn't that big of an issue. I'd rather have BW's system where taunts decrease an enemy players damage by 30% to anyone else but themselves. What if it made you UNABLE to change targets for a time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 By all the other things, I can only assume you mean shields. Which is like... one thing. Accuracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticoccus Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 What if it made you UNABLE to change targets for a time? Kind of like how taunts work in LoL. Yes, because we all want Rammus in more games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Kind of like how taunts work in LoL. Yes, because we all want Rammus in more games. MMOs that want better PvP could stand to take a hell of a lot of good ideas from Dota instead of just taking them from WoW.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticoccus Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 There's a reason pub matches in LoL so often devolves into pubstompy ragefests. PvP there is just as fundamentally broken as it is everywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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