MorgothQuick Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 As a melee I do not have issues with knockbacks or slows. What I do have issue with is being stuck to the floor and being nuked from orbit by multiple ranged classes, all because I cant move at all. Its pretty retarded that I cant do anything to the attacker in this regard, whereas a ranged in this position can simply shoot back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKfourtyseven Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 This whole thing was in vanilla SWG as well. I remember when people were saying "omg, ranged is so OP! Melle can't do anything!"... then everyone found out that Teras Kasi was god-like. Meh, TKM got destroyed by any fencer/pistoleer until the nerfed it. Then TKM got destroyed by any (speed capped) Rifleman+melee(fencer/tk def). Then it got destroyed by CM/Rifleman. The thing that SWG got right however is that a pure melee stacker had the best defences in the game and those defences worked against pretty much anything. In this game, the only class that can come close to that philosophy is a marauder. As soon as they change the way def works, everything will be 100% balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticoccus Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) As a melee I do not have issues with knockbacks or slows. What I do have issue with is being stuck to the floor and being nuked from orbit by multiple ranged classes, all because I cant move at all. Its pretty retarded that I cant do anything to the attacker in this regard, whereas a ranged in this position can simply shoot back. If you get focused you die, we've been over this already. The chain root combo mostly happens if you get focused, if they don't manage to lock you down you can generally just use your wonderful gap closer to get close enough to melt their face again. Sentinel PvP really is all about the face melting, which gladdens me since I never had the patience to level up a shadow priest in WoW. Edited March 5, 2012 by Morticoccus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthRaika Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Lol at favoring ranged. In mmos I switch between my first mains but I've played mmos for a very long time and in every mmo GOOD wars/sins are the biggest threats to any single person and GOOD instant ranged or wars switch between the biggest threat to teams (in terms of dmg dealing classes). Also, in every mmo bad melee always complain that they are UP. In a balanced game randed dmg is about positioning and targetting and melee is about timing and targetting. Ranged needs to worry about people sneaking up on them and gap closers. Melee needs to worry about being the primary tab target for the other team. Bad melee (most melee) like bad ranged (most ranged) don't think about timing or positioning respectively. Also, in all mmos there are periods where wars and sins are extremely OP in the hands of good players because of all the bad players complaining. This is not the case yet with swotor, however properly specc'd melee are pretty well off right now and definitely not UP. Watch most shadows/sins they don't even start fights from stealth most of the time because they have huge dmg mit already lol. Also, you'll see wars running buckwild around and not thinking while still killing 1-2 targets if geared. that is definitely not UP lol. I'm happy with balance on my classes for the most part and not complaining. I know my sin will win 1 on 1 and bh/sorc/marauder will win in team matches if played well. Good melee have it very well here as well because 1 healer can easily keep a marauder or sin up against several other decent dps (of course the idiot dps in question here should just kill the healer lol). The best premades as far as killing right now are marauder/sin premades with any kind of healer support. That is a pretty nice place to be so **** . Edited March 5, 2012 by DarthRaika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Getting tired of this bullshi* nonsense. So, what the f*** is it you want? What's your vision of balance? Two things: 1. Roots must be affected by resolve. 2. Knockbacks should give more resolve than they do currently. We can work on the PvE range imbalances later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesmcalli Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Getting tired of this bullshi* nonsense. So, what the f*** is it you want? What's your vision of balance? You want the melees so strong, that you can jump in in the midst of 4~5 ranged cookies and wade and truck along despite all the CCs and slows and focus fire that falls on you? You want your attacks so strong, that despite your target marked for death uses his CDs, you can still crush the defenses and manage to kill it before the 3~4 people that focus fire on you can kill you? Is that what you want? Do you want some sort of a brilliant aura protecting you that makes the ranged players suddenly stupid and dumbfounded, so they can't target you? A targe-dropping AoE placate power that makes you untargettable while you jump into all those enemies so you can get your job done any way you like it? ... Because, whatever vision of "balance" you have, it simply means you don't want to get killed despite focus fire, and to me, no amount of excuse can ever make me consider that as being "balanced." If you get focused, you die. That's the simple rule. If you don't want to get focused, it is up to you to find a way, and not to the system of balance to find a way to cater to your every, stupid need, since clearly there are other people who can manage such situations without much of a problem. Learn, to, play. ] What I personally want, what I considered "balanced", is for ranged to have to work as hard performing their said role as a melee does. Right now, that is not the case. I am not talking min/max, uber-leet PVP. I am talking the type of PVP the rest of the population plays. Ranged should not be able to stand in a cluster and tab target away, pretty much destroying anything that comes within 30 meters of them with impunity. Having a fully ranged stacked team should be a disadvantage, not a faceroll AOEfest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticoccus Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Two things: 1. Roots must be affected by resolve. 2. Knockbacks should give more resolve than they do currently. We can work on the PvE range imbalances later. Since the only way this would affect melee classes negatively is that it would remove the need to spec into slow on cauterize to avoid easy cleanses, that would make watchman sentinel completely OP, even more so against sorcs. And I don't want my favorite class to go the way of the operative, thank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyde Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 i have to add to the lulz melee underpowered.. Tell that to a marauder or a rage spec jugger that has a clue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticoccus Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 i have to add to the lulz melee underpowered.. Tell that to a marauder or a rage spec jugger that has a clue Yeah but if snares and roots gave resolve they would make the melee classes broken as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Since the only way this would affect melee classes negatively is that it would remove the need to spec into slow on cauterize to avoid easy cleanses, that would make watchman sentinel completely OP, even more so against sorcs. And I don't want my favorite class to go the way of the operative, thank you very much. Watchman needs nerfs and the other specs buffs as it is, so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nschlan Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Watchman needs nerfs and the other specs buffs as it is, so.... Focus doesn't need buffed. Combat doesn't need to be buffed so much as it needs to be FIXED. Ataru procs are broken and (depending on your toon) 2-3 talents that contribute to a lot of Combat's damage are broken Edited March 5, 2012 by nschlan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momokan Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 admittedly, as a BM healer, the only thing i'm scared of are melee. take that as you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiek Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) i always think most of this comes from the huttball teams with 5 sorcs roaming the catwalks. of course if 5 sorcs all hit you with lightning, you die. they are pretty squishy though. the perception that they are overpowered and easy to play has also created a considerable population of pvp-challenged people playing those classes, which can be fun. i really enjoy interupting a mercs tracer missile and watching him just stand there like ??? no win??. of course there are alot who are very good at their classes which makes them a challenge to kill. what i love about swtor pvp is that there really are no 'hard counter' classes. in duels, melee does very well. 1v1 doesnt really matter much, id rather have a team with 8 people actually playing huttball instead of just running around aimlessly pvping, no matter how many people they can kill. Edited March 5, 2012 by Tiek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Ranged is blatantly overpowered in Huttball which unfortunately is played something like 75% of the time for the side with more people, so while the imbalance isn't as bad elsewhere it hardly matters when ranged are overpowered in a map you see 75% of the time. I rolled a Merc alt recently and I can pretty much keep BM any melee off me in Huttball forever with Rocket Punch and Jet Boost. I can't necessarily kill them but they're never getting close to me. Yes I have to actually position myself to dragon punch them down, but that's not exactly rocket science. After 2 knockbacks there's pretty much nothing a melee can do to get back up to higher ground so either they get bombarded to death, or if they're smart they'll find something to hide behind. In either case they're not possibly doing any threat to the guy above who continues to have great position. Yes once a while someone might pop something that prevents KB or a Force Shroud but 95% of the time, the melee is going to fly off the ledge and in Huttball that's often all you need to do anyway since you only need to control the high ground to win, not necessarily kill every guy you see. Even on flat terrain, KBs put a lot of distance between you and the enemy. You can easily get 3 Tracer Missiles in before someone walks back in melee range if their charge is down, and that's a very significant head start for the ranged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mBass Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Melee = easier to pvp with than ranged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calomega Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 No , the OP is talking about Warzones and if you don't know what he is talking about play a melee class in a warzone against 6-7 sorcs/sages. QFT 3 sorcs can basically insta kill me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calomega Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Melee = easier to pvp with than ranged Lol, dude, that could not be more wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mBass Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 QFT 3 sorcs can basically insta kill me So can 3 marauders. You aren't supposed to win against 3 anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mBass Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Lol, dude, that could not be more wrong. Using gap closers effectively takes way less effort than using knock backs or kiting effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Using gap closers effectively takes way less effort than using knock backs or kiting effectively. That's because when you use say a charge the other guy doesn't suddenly die from being charged itself, but when you KB the recipient of that may instantly die from being tossed into a fire pit on Huttball. Yes you may have to think about the position some but it's a good payoff when the other guy burns to death instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mBass Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 That's because when you use say a charge the other guy doesn't suddenly die from being charged itself, but when you KB the recipient of that may instantly die from being tossed into a fire pit on Huttball. Yes you may have to think about the position some but it's a good payoff when the other guy burns to death instantly. I'm not even sure what you're arguing but anyone who gets knocked into fire has themselves to blame. At any rate, force push and grapple are at least as good at burning people as overload or cover pulse. Ranged has no advantage there either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derian Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Two things: 1. Roots must be affected by resolve. 2. Knockbacks should give more resolve than they do currently. We can work on the PvE range imbalances later. The problem with making roots affected by resolve is it's a two way street bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damolawler Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Where's the rest of your team? This is a question I often find myself asking, when I have died in 4 seconds after being focused by four or five imps for the unpteenth time. Oh look, there they are! Four of them guarding the west turret, which isn't even under attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmon Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 this one time at band camp.....i went up against 7 sages and a melee (some type of melee dps with 1 sabre) did not end well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damolawler Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Melee = easier to pvp with than ranged Bollocks! All these ranged players sneering L2P at anyone who disagrees with them need to take a step back. especially when ranged requires barely learning 2 play at all. Edited March 5, 2012 by damolawler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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