As long as ranged is blatantly favored, PVP in this game will never be balanced.

[AKfourtyseven]

BH/Trooper + Sorc/Sage is just a min maxed team designed for pvp. with so many people rolling them the changes you get a combination of that maybe thrown in with a jedi knight then yea it is extremely hard to stop without coordination. I experienced it for the first time last night.

 

That is pretty much the only Rep team you will face on my server. Sage + Troopers, with the occasional JK guarding the sage healers.

 

It gets very boring seeing this every single Voidstar and Civil War.

 

Serious FOTM team. Wonder what people will grind to 50 when 1.2 brings changes...

[BobaFurz]

My mercenary is lvl 20 and tried out the first time TM. Holy **** the dps is crazy, only my op could drop people that fast without any heat problem in comparison to my PT.

[JefferyClark]

Melee suffers worse than you think.

 

That about sums it up...

[Desgarden]

If you can't deal with melee class as a ranged, blame yourself, not them...

 

yeah, because all melee classes are the same and all have the same arsenal of obscene cc like sorcs right?

[savionen]

yeah, because all melee classes are the same and all have the same arsenal of obscene cc like sorcs right?

 

Nope.

 

That's why blanket statements are stupid.

 

Sentinel/Marauder I find pretty easy to kite. Something like a tank-Vanguard however, is hard to get away from.

[WooliestWorm]

I think the problem a lot of melee have is that by jumping into the enemy lines even with a group you really bring yourself to the attention of everyone. Because of that you tend to get attacked by the majority of enemy players and end up complaining because of all the resulting deaths. Just pop your defensive cooldowns and you can buy your team a lot of time to do some damage.

[savionen]

I think the problem a lot of melee have is that by jumping into the enemy lines even with a group you really bring yourself to the attention of everyone. Because of that you tend to get attacked by the majority of enemy players and end up complaining because of all the resulting deaths. Just pop your defensive cooldowns and you can buy your team a lot of time to do some damage.

 

Ranged classes have defensive cooldowns, too. Infact, a DPS Mercenary has more damage reduction than a DPS Vanguard.

[WooliestWorm]

Ranged classes have defensive cooldowns, too. Infact, a DPS Mercenary has more damage reduction than a DPS Vanguard.

 

That doesn't change the fact that you can buy your team a fair bit of time as a Sent with defensive cds

[babiegirlla]

I remember in WAR, shortly before cross-server pvp, there was a map that favored ranged. In fact, it was so ranged favored, that what people did was specific queue for this map, to dominate it and get the best gear and be ahead of everyone else.

 

To put this in a SWTOR sense, imagine Hutball, then imagine the entire team being 8 sorcs. Now imagine them all chain passing, using sprint and having all the knockbacks and stuns to keep ranged and melee away. That was what this gametype was in WAR. That game, died in not a year, not half a year, it was half dead before cross-server pvp, and was dead shortly after. Months.

 

I hope they change the way a lot spells and classes play because they were obviously not intended to play the way they do in PvP as PvE, and like it or not BW, people really LOVE PvP in this game, but you need to begin the difficult job of balancing between PvE and PvP.

 

The biggest change I would make to this game would be to make a full resolve bar act as a second trinket and break any cc on you, make snares count toward resolve, *maybe* slows. And remove any ability for a ball carrier to leap, sprint, etc. That way you promote less pointless fighting around the arena, and more actual "basketball" like play and passing.

Edited March 4, 2012 by babiegirlla

[BobaFurz]

Well some of the pvp devs from WAR did actually develop swtor

[Jesmcalli]

Last game...vs 5 BHs, 2 sorcs and a sniper in Void Star. Yeah, that was fun. Getting rooted and nuked into oblivion is totally balanced.

[Smashbrother]

Title says it all. There is a really good reason you see so many teams with nothing but BH/Trooper Sorc/Sages. Yes, this is probably the umpteenth thread on it, but after seeing warzone after warzone of nothing but TM and lightning spam, I am fed up. Ranged classes in general aren't punished nearly enough for staying in melee range. Yet, if I am melee within 30 meters of any ranged class, it's spam damage and CC from several different sources.

 

My guardian that ***** face would like to say hello.

[nschlan]

Last game...vs 5 BHs, 2 sorcs and a sniper in Void Star. Yeah, that was fun. Getting rooted and nuked into oblivion is totally balanced.

 

If that's happening, you're getting focused. One of the basic rules of PvP is you get focused, you die. Same thing woulda happened had you been ranged.

[EternalFinality]

If that's happening, you're getting focused. One of the basic rules of PvP is you get focused, you die. Same thing woulda happened had you been ranged.

 

It is easier and more effective for ranged to focus someone compared to melee. That's the whole point.

Edited March 5, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Smashbrother]

It is easier and more effective for ranged to focus someone compared to melee. That's the whole point.

 

Not by much.

 

On my commando healer I hate melee far far more than ranged dps. I use this thing called LoS.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Smashbrother

[EternalFinality]

Not by much.

 

On my commando healer I hate melee far far more than ranged dps. I use this thing called LoS.

 

There are also things called roots and knockbacks. They do nothing to ranged to stop them from focusing you. They do a hell of a lot to melee.

Edited March 5, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Redmarx]

It is easier and more effective for ranged to focus someone compared to melee. That's the whole point.

 

Completely wrong.

 

The strength of melee lies in assist, and melee do focus fire much better than ranged who are simply chain interrupted into uselessness. Roots and knockbacks are not a big issue for melee who know how to play.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Redmarx

[Smashbrother]

There are also things called roots and knockbacks. They do nothing to ranged to stop them from focusing you. They do a hell of a lot to melee.

 

Knockback is luls because I can simply zealous leap back in, or I can force push them which resets my force leap. The only roots I have an issue with is the talented sorc one that aoe knockbacks AND roots. That is something BW should fix because one skill should not knockback AND root, but that's a whole another discussion. If my cc break is up, then it's even more luls. Roots/KBs have counters. LoS on the otherhand has no counter.

 

My commando healer has no roots or snares, and die far more easily to melee assaults than ranged assaults.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Smashbrother

[mercturq]

I play a Vanguard who is mostly melee. I have gap closers and good interrupts and I know how to use them. I have a grappling hook that pulls my enemy to me, I know how to use it. I am consistently around the number one spot in WZ's, or I usually get MVP votes if I am not because my efforts are seen. Whether you believe what I say or not, I care not. I am just letting you know that melee is fine in this game if you know what you are doing.

 

This whole thing was in vanilla SWG as well. I remember when people were saying "omg, ranged is so OP! Melle can't do anything!"... then everyone found out that Teras Kasi was god-like.

[Jesmcalli]

Completely wrong.

 

The strength of melee lies in assist, and melee do focus fire much better than ranged who are simply chain interrupted into uselessness. Roots and knockbacks are not a big issue for melee who know how to play.

 

So, ranged can pretty much spam 3-4 buttons and contribute, but melee has to manage CDs, watch procs, stay on target through roots, knockbacks, stuns, mezzes, etc in order to do similar damage, and that is somehow balanced? Roots and knockbacks from one source aren't a big issue from melee who know how to play. But CC from several sources out of your range is another issue.

[Morticoccus]

I just started PvP as a sentinel (Watchman spec ofc) and I'm only level 19 so I still lack core abilities (to put it mildly) compared to some of the other players.

 

What I've observed is that in most of the matches where my team gets curbstomped, our loss depends more on superior tactics from the enemy team than on our individual classes being underpowered.

 

For example, a team with 90% inquisitors will have access to stealth, damage mitigation, massive AOE zones for area denial, slows aplenty, CCs, DOTs, area pushbacks and healing.

 

And yet in a 1v1 fight most of these factors mean very little because in my build I have healing mitigation (both in the form of a flat 20% debuff and two interrupts, with stasis and my AOE CC I'll have 4 at level cap) damage reduction, some healing of my own, slows of my own to level the field, one DOT (with my core ability unlock at level 20 two) and a kickass gap closer that I can use to get back in melee range and maintain DOT presence.

 

Like I said, ability wise I come out on top, but the sorcs have three distinct advantages. First is their range, which doesn't mean much once I get close but allows them to lock me down with slows if they see me coming, forcing me to waste my gap closer, as soon as I get camo this will not be an issue anymore.

 

Second is a purely psychological benefit, but a VERY big one, they are ranged, and they can heal. This means that they are natural rallying points for the enemy team even if most of the team have these qualities, leading to clustering wherever they appear.

 

In premade play clustering is a bad strategy because it can easily be flanked, in random BG it's a very good strategy, because people generally attack the furball in an uncoordinated manner, which allows the enemy teams ranged classes to pick targets and focus them down very quickly, in Voidstar for example a common strategy seems to be to cluster all sorcs between the doors and then send one out to interrupt captures or scorch the ground in front of the door while the rest focus down anyone that attacks them.

 

Third, CC.

 

Yes, the fact that sorcerers and other ranged classes can leave you hanging for a prolonged time while the rest of their team move to surround is also a psychological benefit, as it allows them to very easily scare players into blowing their 2 min CD flee buttons and then be easy pickings for two more respawns.

 

 

Tl;dr?

 

Sorcerers get more help from their teammates even in random.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Morticoccus

[Abiza]

OP, I said the same thing at first. But then I got good.

 

True story.

[kweassa]

Getting tired of this bullshi* nonsense.

 

So, what the f*** is it you want? What's your vision of balance?

 

 

 

You want the melees so strong, that you can jump in in the midst of 4~5 ranged cookies and wade and truck along despite all the CCs and slows and focus fire that falls on you?

 

You want your attacks so strong, that despite your target marked for death uses his CDs, you can still crush the defenses and manage to kill it before the 3~4 people that focus fire on you can kill you?

 

 

Is that what you want?

 

Do you want some sort of a brilliant aura protecting you that makes the ranged players suddenly stupid and dumbfounded, so they can't target you?

 

A targe-dropping AoE placate power that makes you untargettable while you jump into all those enemies so you can get your job done any way you like it?

 

...

 

Because, whatever vision of "balance" you have, it simply means you don't want to get killed despite focus fire, and to me, no amount of excuse can ever make me consider that as being "balanced."

 

 

If you get focused, you die. That's the simple rule.

 

If you don't want to get focused, it is up to you to find a way, and not to the system of balance to find a way to cater to your every, stupid need, since clearly there are other people who can manage such situations without much of a problem.

 

Learn, to, play.

 

]

[nschlan]

I used to think ranged was OP...and then I took some skill to the knee

[Morticoccus]

Getting tired of this bullshi* nonsense.

 

So, what the f*** is it you want? What's your vision of balance?

 

 

 

You want the melees so strong, that you can jump in in the midst of 4~5 ranged cookies and wade and truck along despite all the CCs and slows and focus fire that falls on you?

 

You want your attacks so strong, that despite your target marked for death uses his CDs, you can still crush the defenses and manage to kill it before the 3~4 people that focus fire on you can kill you?

 

 

Is that what you want?

 

Do you want some sort of a brilliant aura protecting you that makes the ranged players suddenly stupid and dumbfounded, so they can't target you?

 

A targe-dropping AoE placate power that makes you untargettable while you jump into all those enemies so you can get your job done any way you like it?

 

...

 

Because, whatever vision of "balance" you have, it simply means you don't want to get killed despite focus fire, and to me, no amount of excuse can ever make me consider that as being "balanced."

 

 

If you get focused, you die. That's the simple rule.

 

If you don't want to get focused, it is up to you to find a way, and not to the system of balance to find a way to cater to your every, stupid need, since clearly there are other people who can manage such situations without much of a problem.

 

Learn, to, play.

 

]

 

The problem is, as I said that the way to not get focused is to not be the single, shining red target for all the ranged moving in a ball to lock on to, which means not being in range, which means giving them free reign to do whatever.

 

Which is fine, tanking is not my job anyhow I'm melee DPS.

 

However, if the only thing that exists on the map is three capture points, one furball of ranged with maybe an op running interference and a team spread out over the entire map, those ranged players can just walk in one direction, stopping occasionally to mow down anything in range and then keep walking.

 

What I want is not a balance patch, what I want is a patch that adds a huge sign in front of the spawn gate saying "Stay together, team!"

 

Because I do not want to run from the spawn to cover a point and get there seeing enemies on the map but no allies, because if I get focused, I die.

 

 

Like I said, I'm a newbie at PvP in general (I literally just started sentinel WZ today) and even I see that the issue lies in team cohesion and not class balance.

 

Ranged classes draw teammates to them because they feel protected/the need to protect squishies. Melee classes do not. People should learn that if the opposing team clusters, you have to form up and flank them to win, it's not rocket science, and everyone wants to win right?