As long as ranged is blatantly favored, PVP in this game will never be balanced.

[nschlan]

No, I am not. I'll screenshot the next one I see.

 

You do know that that's impossible for anyone now that Surge has been nerfed? (Well, I know one situation but it's usually only in a raid with 2 Gunnery Commandos)

[HellFlame]

If allowed to stand around and statue cast, yes ranged dps will dominate a warzone. From my experience 90% of ranged players i come across are just grav round/lightning spammers. Simply interrupting them once is all it takes to completely fluster them.

 

Seriously, i have no problems with ranged .. you can interrupt and los them. I dont have any problems healing against ranged dps with my heal sorc. I got force speed as sorc so yeah its pretty easy to get away from them. The only thing which really can kill me are marauders. think they got their 5-6 second interrupt, force joke and you cant really get away because of their charge.

[Cereyeth]

Few nights ago on my Sorc alt I played about five or so warzones, literally doing nothing but pushing my force lightning key the whole match and nothing else, including heals or CCs. I came across the occasional player that wised up and shut me down, but almost everygame I ended up with an absolute ton of damage, kills, and medals. Until the average pug you come across learns how to stop players that do that type of thing, there is no reason for terrible one button pvpers to stop doing it.

[Jesmcalli]

Be quiet. I pug all the time, and I rarely have a guard/healer helping me. Guards need to guard healers, not DPS. (typically). You just need to L2P. I'm sorry it hurts your feelings, but it's the reality. Melee classes have the best single target DPS in the game (long with Sniper/GS). Stop being bad.

 

Can you please elaborate on your experience in the game, what character you have and what spec you are using? Also what server?

 

I've played several different melee classes, 2 at 50. My server is irrelevant. But there is a damned good reason you see so many ranged at 50, plain and simple. It's easier to be effective by yourself as ranged, than it is as melee. Can melee wreck face with the proper support? Of course, I've seen it many times. Can they wreck face 1v1? Depends on the circumstances. I can use all the CDs at my disposal, judiciously pick my targets, and still by the nature of warzones, I'll still be with tab range of several ranged, no matter what I do.

 

I'll put it this way, you're ranged, surround by 4-5 melee, 4m from you. Your gapmakers are on CD ( and probably your other defensive CDs as well), what do you do? This is the exact scenario you run into as melee all the time in warzones. Sure, you may have the CDs and skills needed to deal with ( or get away from) 1-2 people tops, not 4+. I've never seen a ranged get dogpiled on like a melee does, not once.

[Jesmcalli]

You do know that that's impossible for anyone now that Surge has been nerfed? (Well, I know one situation but it's usually only in a raid with 2 Gunnery Commandos)

 

It's not impossible. Sorry. This was post surge nerf.

[kweassa]

I've played several different melee classes, 2 at 50. My server is irrelevant. But there is a damned good reason you see so many ranged at 50, plain and simple.

 

To your deluded eyes, maybe. But I see no particular numbers shift towards ranged at all. Again, your "feelings" on how you "think" there are more ranged players, but most of us see just as many melees as ranged players, all the time.

 

 

It's easier to be effective by yourself as ranged, than it is as melee. Can melee wreck face with the proper support? Of course, I've seen it many times. Can they wreck face 1v1? Depends on the circumstances. I can use all the CDs at my disposal, judiciously pick my targets, and still by the nature of warzones, I'll still be with tab range of several ranged, no matter what I do.

 

And again, you refuse to recognize that as a tactics issue, a group-on-group dynamic, totally irrelevant to individual balance between ranges and melees.

 

 

I'll put it this way, you're ranged, surround by 4-5 melee, 4m from you. Your gapmakers are on CD ( and probably your other defensive CDs as well), what do you do? This is the exact scenario you run into as melee all the time in warzones. Sure, you may have the CDs and skills needed to deal with ( or get away from) 1-2 people tops, not 4+. I've never seen a ranged get dogpiled on like a melee does, not once.

 

What the f*** are you doing by dealing 4+ on your own - that's the real question here, because if its 4+ melees vs 4+ ranged, the group dynamics of ranged simply disappear as they all scatter like a flock of chickens when each melee picks a target.

 

If its a mix of melees and ranged, the ranged in your team need to focus fire on the other ranged enemies that hit your back while you pick one out. Obviously the people you play with aren't smart, or experienced, enough to do that.

 

That's not a melee-vs-range problem, is it now.

[nschlan]

It's not impossible. Sorry. This was post surge nerf.

 

Pics or didn't happen. You're full of BS or it was a Focus Sentinel doing it to a target with 10k HP (thus no gear). Quit trying to lie to cover your lies.

[Zerothreat]

Because this game can be an esport...

 

This made me lol. I would be ashamed to call myself an elite pvp'er and the pvp game of choice im playing is... swtor. Kids will be kids though.

[nschlan]

This made me lol. I would be ashamed to call myself an elite pvp'er and the pvp game of choice im playing is... swtor. Kids will be kids though.

 

A lot of good PvPers are playing this game just because it isn't WoW and there's no decent alternative. But yeah, this game will NEVER make it as an esport. WoW couldn't and this is basically WoW.

[Derian]

I've played several different melee classes, 2 at 50. My server is irrelevant. But there is a damned good reason you see so many ranged at 50, plain and simple. It's easier to be effective by yourself as ranged, than it is as melee. Can melee wreck face with the proper support? Of course, I've seen it many times. Can they wreck face 1v1? Depends on the circumstances. I can use all the CDs at my disposal, judiciously pick my targets, and still by the nature of warzones, I'll still be with tab range of several ranged, no matter what I do.

 

I'll put it this way, you're ranged, surround by 4-5 melee, 4m from you. Your gapmakers are on CD ( and probably your other defensive CDs as well), what do you do? This is the exact scenario you run into as melee all the time in warzones. Sure, you may have the CDs and skills needed to deal with ( or get away from) 1-2 people tops, not 4+. I've never seen a ranged get dogpiled on like a melee does, not once.

 

Why are you putting ourself in a 1-4 to 1-5 situation? I have. Maybe the PVPers on your server are terrible. I've played Sentinel/Marauder since closed Beta in August, all I heard was people whining about Ranged, it's just not true.

[Zerothreat]

A lot of good PvPers are playing this game just because it isn't WoW and there's no decent alternative. But yeah, this game will NEVER make it as an esport. WoW couldn't and this is basically WoW.

 

Not trying to offend good pvp'ers. I'm good at pvp but there is no way I'm going to claim elite status in swtor. I know some will and already have though. At least they have one thing going for them if and when ranked warzones come out, they will actually have a little merit to thier claims.

[Jesmcalli]

To your deluded eyes, maybe. But I see no particular numbers shift towards ranged at all. Again, your "feelings" on how you "think" there are more ranged players, but most of us see just as many melees as ranged players, all the time.

 

 

 

 

And again, you refuse to recognize that as a tactics issue, a group-on-group dynamic, totally irrelevant to individual balance between ranges and melees.

 

 

 

 

What the f*** are you doing by dealing 4+ on your own - that's the real question here, because if its 4+ melees vs 4+ ranged, the group dynamics of ranged simply disappear as they all scatter like a flock of chickens when each melee picks a target.

 

If its a mix of melees and ranged, the ranged in your team need to focus fire on the other ranged enemies that hit your back while you pick one out. Obviously the people you play with aren't smart, or experienced, enough to do that.

 

That's not a melee-vs-range problem, is it now.

 

It's not a matter of what I "think" I see, it's a matter of what I *do* see. Which is, more ranged on average than melee.

 

You missed my point entirely on your last statement. My point was, unless I am off in the middle of nowhere chasing down a sole target ( which I wouldn't be, because that's plain stupid), chances are, I'm within striking distance of ranged ( if I am on/enroute to an objective, as I should be). My intent may be to take down that one healer, or particularly nasty ranged DPS ( or at least stop them from free casting), but what ends up happening, is I am focused down by 3+ ranged from distances that I can't do anything about ( because,presumably, I'm saving my CDs for my target, or they're on CD). So, I can do what I can to my target, hoping to take them out or wear them down enough for someone to finish them off, before I die. Rinse and repeat.

[nschlan]

It's not a matter of what I "think" I see, it's a matter of what I *do* see. Which is, more ranged on average than melee.

 

You missed my point entirely on your last statement. My point was, unless I am off in the middle of nowhere chasing down a sole target ( which I wouldn't be, because that's plain stupid), chances are, I'm within striking distance of ranged ( if I am on/enroute to an objective, as I should be). My intent may be to take down that one healer, or particularly nasty ranged DPS ( or at least stop them from free casting), but what ends up happening, is I am focused down by 3+ ranged from distances that I can't do anything about ( because,presumably, I'm saving my CDs for my target, or they're on CD). So, I can do what I can to my target, hoping to take them out or wear them down enough for someone to finish them off, before I die. Rinse and repeat.

 

Problem: Ranged classes don't get stealth. If you're coming within range of them, you'll see it coming, thus making it your fault if you get smacked 1v4.

[Jesmcalli]

Why are you putting ourself in a 1-4 to 1-5 situation? I have. Maybe the PVPers on your server are terrible. I've played Sentinel/Marauder since closed Beta in August, all I heard was people whining about Ranged, it's just not true.

 

I'm not "putting" myself in that position. By being melee, and trying to take an objective, I am in the position, whether I like it or not. By being there, I am in threat range of however many ranged happen to be there at the time. No amount of tactics can change that. There's the objective we're supposed to take, and look, there's 5 ranged. Bummer. I can switch objectives, but hey, so can they.

[nschlan]

I'm not "putting" myself in that position. By being melee, and trying to take an objective, I am in the position, whether I like it or not. By being there, I am in threat range of however many ranged happen to be there at the time. No amount of tactics can change that. There's the objective we're supposed to take, and look, there's 5 ranged. Bummer. I can switch objectives, but hey, so can they.

 

Where's the rest of your team?

[Jesmcalli]

Problem: Ranged classes don't get stealth. If you're coming within range of them, you'll see it coming, thus making it your fault if you get smacked 1v4.

 

So teams never reinforce each other huh? Good to know. Oh, and I guess I'll stay out of 30m range then ( since if I am within 30 meters of a ranged, I must be terrible). Of course that means I won't be doing anything either, sound strategy.

[nschlan]

So teams never reinforce each other huh? Good to know. Oh, and I guess I'll stay out of 30m range then ( since if I am within 30 meters of a ranged, I must be terrible). Of course that means I won't be doing anything either, sound strategy.

 

Again, where's the rest of your team? You're running at multiple people/in a situation where you can get attacked by multiple people and you're by yourself then you have no one else to blame.

Edited March 4, 2012 by nschlan

[Jesmcalli]

Where's the rest of your team?

 

In a PUG, who the hell knows what they're doing. Sometimes I get good ones, and have a healer that's spot on, and DPS that focus and peel off our healers. Sometimes I get terrible ones that medal farm the entire time. It's a crap shoot. But, if I were ranged I could merrily tab target away and get all kinds of medals with no problems, win or lose.

[kweassa]

It's not a matter of what I "think" I see, it's a matter of what I *do* see. Which is, more ranged on average than melee.

 

Sure. Repeat it as many times as you will, and it becomes the truth?

 

 

You missed my point entirely on your last statement. My point was, unless I am off in the middle of nowhere chasing down a sole target ( which I wouldn't be, because that's plain stupid), chances are, I'm within striking distance of ranged ( if I am on/enroute to an objective, as I should be).

 

When you are within striking range of ranged enemies, they are also in striking range of your team's ranged. Either that, or there needs to be other melees ready behind your back to stop all that lightning/pebble/pewpew gun spamming behind your back.

 

Which part of "Don't be the sole target of multiple enemies" can you not understand?

 

 

My intent may be to take down that one healer, or particularly nasty ranged DPS ( or at least stop them from free casting), but what ends up happening, is I am focused down by 3+ ranged from distances that I can't do anything about ( because,presumably, I'm saving my CDs for my target, or they're on CD).

 

Because you are the closest target they see, and there is no (either) melee support that is ready to charge down and scatter the ranged enemies (or) a healer that's got your back until you can get the job done (or) your ranged pals that is ready to mow down the enemies shooting at you.

 

Again, a team issue. You are constantly assuming a situation where you are the only one doing anything, and naturally the enemies all focus fire on you.

 

You are thinking you are alone, when there are 7 other people.

 

 

So, I can do what I can to my target, hoping to take them out or wear them down enough for someone to finish them off, before I die. Rinse and repeat.

 

Honestly, after pages and pages of your rant, all I still see is some very bad group tactics.

 

 

Where's this melee-range imbalance we're supposed to notice?

[nschlan]

In a PUG, who the hell knows what they're doing. Sometimes I get good ones, and have a healer that's spot on, and DPS that focus and peel off our healers. Sometimes I get terrible ones that medal farm the entire time. It's a crap shoot. But, if I were ranged I could merrily tab target away and get all kinds of medals with no problems, win or lose.

 

More team issues. If you can't 1v1 ranged, you're bad or the ranged is just a better player. You can't go 1v2/3/4/whatever? It's a team issue. No evidence of imbalance has been shown by you thus far.

[ycat]

if you think range is imba and melee is UP then you are pretty bad

[BCBull]

Title says it all. There is a really good reason you see so many teams with nothing but BH/Trooper Sorc/Sages. Yes, this is probably the umpteenth thread on it, but after seeing warzone after warzone of nothing but TM and lightning spam, I am fed up. Ranged classes in general aren't punished nearly enough for staying in melee range. Yet, if I am melee within 30 meters of any ranged class, it's spam damage and CC from several different sources.

 

Bad players qq about this mythical thing called balance.

[JediDuckling]

Title says it all. There is a really good reason you see so many teams with nothing but BH/Trooper Sorc/Sages. Yes, this is probably the umpteenth thread on it, but after seeing warzone after warzone of nothing but TM and lightning spam, I am fed up. Ranged classes in general aren't punished nearly enough for staying in melee range. Yet, if I am melee within 30 meters of any ranged class, it's spam damage and CC from several different sources.

 

learn to play

 

have you see the devistation sith warriros and jedi knigts do to players when they get in melee range ?

 

if you cant get that melee out your face you are as good as dead.

[Ssfbistimg]

your probably talking about sorc/sage. if your getting owned by Grav round/ tracer missile (L2P) you have 80-90% uptime on commandos and 70-90% uptime on Bounty hunters. so either your not LOS ing or you dont have CD's

 

Commando( cryo grenade 60 sec cd. Concussive round 1 min cd 2 sec cast) the only 2 cd's that class has. No slows no force speed, no shield a heal you have to cast every time. They might out gear you but dont talk about getting rolled by a commando makes you look bad. Nuff said.

 

Nerf Sorc/ sage so i can pew pew grav round MORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

 

you need to re learn my class. as a trooper commando (gunnery) i have two slows. Full auto slows u and so does my knockback. I also have a shield. I also have 2 self heals that are instant. serious bro learn my class better b4 spreading lies.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Ssfbistimg

[xHellxHoundx]

Just throwing this out there, Swg in the early stages of the game ranged professions could do some good damage but once the melee guy got to him it was over. It would be interesting if they could spread the gap a bit. I.E increase the damage of ranged but lower the accuracy the closer the enemy got to the point where up close and personal was deadly. How ever I will note that Swg ranged was out to 64 meters so they would have to add range to better balance. So If and when the do a complete combat revamp it would be cool to see them get more detailed.