Marking healers with raid icons need to STOP!

[getdownsb]

lol, op healers crying. lol.

[face_hindu]

Ellvaan is my new favourite mod That was a very concise and personal message you got there. Wish all my warnings and infractions were so cheery :/

 

Anyway, if you have to type out "kill this healer" in chat, the person you're talking to probably won't be much use anyway, if they're in the vicinity, not preventing caps, and attacking someone else before the healer.

 

Target markers do not increase the skill or gear level of your team. If you NEED to use them, I doubt you are well geared and highly skilled, so it's not going to help you anyway.

[NAMD]

lol i never knew about this awsm thing till i read this post, thank you for the pricless info. Im telling everyone about this and the pugs on my server are starting to become more challenging, because not only can my team do it but so can the other teams. honestly all i want is a more challenging WZ, not an easy one

[Molatova]

Let's look at what you're saying for a moment.

 

Okay, first part: In wz, my friend says kill this healer. What you mean is my friend has to type out kill this healer in ops chat WHILE he is actually trying to kill said healer, doing 0 dps to that healer.

 

Next, you want me to click my friend and see where he is and then look where his shots are going. I'll tell you where his shots are going, they're going to the crowd in the back where all the people are bunched together. That's what the heal line looks like, if you haven't seen one.

 

And as I've already said, I'd like for you to point to any single post of mine where I have ever said that I have trouble picking out the healers from the crowd. I can wait.

 

What I did say, however, is that the average SWTOR pugger has problems doing this, and isn't patient enough to wait for 3-4 casts to see if it's a healer or just a dps.

 

I like how you not-so-artfully dodged the fact that you're trying to draw comparisons to a game that has FAR MORE UTILITY than SWTOR does when it comes to coordinating team members in a pug group, and somehow think that this is any reason that SWTOR should do the same thing.

 

Like I said, when SWTOR has all of those features in the game to easily distinguish healers and help my teammates focus the right people when they're called, sure, you can take out target marking.

 

But since it doesn't have anything at all to help coordinate a pug, target marking should stay and people should learn to play around it.

 

The only point I'd concede is that they shouldn't be seen from so far away.

 

And you know what that does ? it gives the healer Time to make a impact in the WF not just oh there he is. What i said to do with out icons will give that healer some time to line of sight / hide or heal or throw the ball and to HAVE FUN and to actualy be more part of the WF and to have FUN!!!!! and not to just have this death sentence For everyone one to see above the healer. The DPS or your Friends or the Pugs should have to do Something Other than look for a icon that you can pick out of a big crowd. That's why healers group up in crowds to Make you have to have Some skill to find them. Or when they LoS you to find them not Oh LOOk There he is we did not have to Think Or Look Or use any Skill to find the Healer.

 

Which is the Main Topic. To Easy No Skill Taken To Find A Giant Icon On A Enemy Player. And maybe the OP should of posted More like this. But I think the Op was talking about Being Marked ends All the Fun for a healer that is not in COMP or is Super Gear. And it was never about Focus You made it about Focus.

 

But this Thread has gotten to Off Topic and should be closed and read more like Mine.

[wessik]

The problem is most don't READ the OP the see what they fear and rage or don't get what she was saying. her point was it ends the fun and with this ill say good night have fun with all the post and rage and the like BW for sure will have to look hard and long as they go into rated warfronts have a good night live well ( work calls ) early

 

i'd say with 99.9% certainty that the people who posted in this thread, read the OP...

 

it ends fun for her, many other healers have posted in this thread have said it doesn't bother them...

 

and since this "no fun" issue doesn't affect 100% of healers who posted here or in game,

and since marking doesn't mean healer is instakilled,

and since marking doesn't mean they are chainstunned in every warzone,

and since marking doesn't warp 8 pugs around the map instantly and directly to a healer

 

it is a QQ post... nothing more...

[wessik]

Misspriss,

 

Think of it this way, when you go to an instance you allways take a tank and a healer if the healer gets aggro the tank does everything he can to take aggro back cause if the healer dies everyone dies, pvp is somewhat the same just with some twists, when you enter a warzone the opposite team want to win as much as you do, and they will use every skill they got to try to win, and if you realy want to win alot you need some certain classes as you do in instance aswell, maby even try to get the warzone leader to mark you as a healer and tell them you will be healing everyone if they could try to protect you i bet that alone will help ALOT, communication is everything in games like this beeing it written or on vent.

 

actually in pve, if a healer takes agro from an npc and dies, the healer should immediately go to the forums and cry about it, and tell the npc's to L2P because it's no fun...

 

it's not your team's fault, it's not the healer's fault, it's the npc's and bioware as well for allowing it...

 

if the npc's use voice chat, it's ok though

[Rilok_Singz]

You can either fight a pug who has to use target markers or you can fight a premade who actually knows how to use assist - think id take my chances with the pug.

 

Also "finding the healer" is pretty basic and there are multiple ways some just as good as target maker, making OP thread pointless, here are just a few that I personally use

 

1. look for the person usually in the far back and guarded and for the most past STANDING STILL to cast healing abilities

 

2. Narrow it down to the sorc/sage in the back or trooper/bh in the back (rare times IA/smug) then look at the abilities being cast...

 

- I personally played swg prior to this game and trust me, target maker is a joke. Just wait till people start using assist, your going to miss target maker

[Varicite]

And you know what that does ? it gives the healer Time to make a impact in the WF not just oh there he is. What i said to do with out icons will give that healer some time to line of sight / hide or heal or throw the ball and to HAVE FUN and to actualy be more part of the WF and to have FUN!!!!! and not to just have this death sentence For everyone one to see above the healer. The DPS or your Friends or the Pugs should have to do Something Other than look for a icon that you can pick out of a big crowd. That's why healers group up in crowds to Make you have to have Some skill to find them. Or when they LoS you to find them not Oh LOOk There he is we did not have to Think Or Look Or use any Skill to find the Healer.

 

Which is the Main Topic. To Easy No Skill Taken To Find A Giant Icon On A Enemy Player. And maybe the OP should of posted More like this. But I think the Op was talking about Being Marked ends All the Fun for a healer that is not in COMP or is Super Gear. And it was never about Focus You made it about Focus.

 

But this Thread has gotten to Off Topic and should be closed and read more like Mine.

 

It was always about focus because it was about marking in the first place.

 

The OP isn't having fun, because she's being marked. She's being marked because she's a healer, and needs to be focused.

 

Still w/ me here?

 

Then you went on to say that other games don't have marking.

 

What we're trying to tell you is that in other games, HEALERS LOOK DIFFERENT THAN EVERYONE ELSE.

 

Which, essentially, is the exact same thing as a target marker when you are looking at a crowd of people. Other games also have much better setups for assisting in focusing priority targets, as well as communicating to the other members of your own team.

 

Since they do not look different in SWTOR, it's hard for some newer players to differentiate between healers and dps. Thus, we mark them, because we do not get to choose who our teammates are, but we still need those healers to die if we want to win.

 

Even in a premade, you do not get to choose HALF of your team. There is absolutely zero way to ensure that you have a team full of people who know what they're doing.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Varicite

[face_hindu]

i'd say with 99.9% certainty that the people who posted in this thread, read the OP...

 

it ends fun for her, many other healers have posted in this thread have said it doesn't bother them...

 

and since this "no fun" issue doesn't affect 100% of healers who posted here or in game,

and since marking doesn't mean healer is instakilled,

and since marking doesn't mean they are chainstunned in every warzone,

and since marking doesn't warp 8 pugs around the map instantly and directly to a healer

 

it is a QQ post... nothing more...

 

^ logic

 

The much bigger annoyance while healing PUGs in warzones is my own teammates LOS-ing me. Seriously, I can heal you faster than you can run. Just stand still for a second.

[face_hindu]

It was always about focus because it was about marking in the first place.

 

The OP isn't having fun, because she's being marked. She's being marked because she's a healer, and needs to be focused.

 

Still w/ me here?

 

Then you went on to say that other games don't have marking.

 

What we're trying to tell you is that in other games, HEALERS LOOK DIFFERENT THAN EVERYONE ELSE.

 

Which, essentially, is the exact same thing as a target marker when you are looking at a crowd of people.

 

Since they do not look different in SWTOR, it's hard for some newer players to differentiate between healers and dps. Thus, we mark them, because we do not get to choose who our teammates are, but we still need those healers to die if we want to win.

 

Even in a premade, you do not get to choose HALF of your team. There is absolutely zero way to ensure that you have a team full of people who know what they're doing.

 

 

Ok, you've tried to make your point. You need target markers to make up for lack of skill. Again: that's not the best solution. Spend some time practicing your spec recognition. Learn to fish. Target markers are not making your PUG any better.

[Varicite]

^ logic

 

The much bigger annoyance while healing PUGs in warzones is my own teammates LOS-ing me. Seriously, I can heal you faster than you can run. Just stand still for a second.

 

Y'know, I always wondered about this, as a DPS player.

 

The choice is basically: LoS the enemy's ranged dps and my healer to stop taking damage, or stay in range of the enemy's ranged dps taking massive damage and receive heals.

 

Can you outheal the ranged line?

 

I'm honestly curious, because if most healers can keep a person up through focus fire from the enemy ranged line, I'm just going to plant my feet and start taking names. : P

[GrandMasterDarth]

Respec DPS if you don`t like everyone shooting at you.

 

Even with no marks i just target and nuke the person who has a healing icon/castbar on them.(and the icons are easy to spot)

 

The only reason marks exist is because most people can`t figure out who is healing... so the ones with more pvp experience(ops leader) have the option to mark them so everyone can spot them easily. Even if they remove them players like me will still target you over anything else...

 

But they shouldn`t remove them, you can always respec dps if you don`t like getting focused... why would anyone focus the dps you are healing? This is not PVE, people actually think and don`t have an agro counter...

 

Also, did it not come to you that when the most used phrase in a warzone is "KILL HEALERS(FIRST)" you might get focused first as a healer?

[Elendil_PL]

Healer here. My 2 Eurocents:

 

Marking = GOOD

 

Marks not dissapearing when respawn = VERY BAD

Edited March 5, 2012 by Elendil_PL

[face_hindu]

Y'know, I always wondered about this, as a DPS player.

 

The choice is basically: LoS the enemy's ranged dps and my healer to stop taking damage, or stay in range of the enemy's ranged dps taking massive damage and receive heals.

 

Can you outheal the ranged line?

 

I'm honestly curious, because if most healers can keep a person up through focus fire from the enemy ranged line, I'm just going to plant my feet and start taking names. : P

 

Oh hell yeah, a good healer can do WAY more burst healing than a DPS can DPS.

[Rilok_Singz]

Respec DPS if you don`t like everyone shooting at you.

 

Even with no marks i just target and nuke the person who has a healing icon/castbar on them.(and the icons are easy to spot)

 

The only reason marks exist is because most people can`t figure out who is healing... so the ones with more pvp experience(ops leader) have the option to mark them so everyone can spot them easily. Even if they remove them players like me will still target you over anything else...

 

But they shouldn`t remove them, you can always respec dps if you don`t like getting focused... why would anyone focus the dps you are healing? This is not PVE, people actually think and don`t have an agro counter...

 

Also, did it not come to you that when the most used phrase in a warzone is "KILL HEALERS(FIRST)" you might get focused first as a healer?

 

you sir are to smart for these forums..

[LenrocNewDawn]

Wow, almost 600 replies over such a childish claim. "Mommy I wanna play outside, make the rain stop". Common guys!!!

Any team that wants to win will identify the biggest threat and try to remove it from the equation first. Yes, the way things are now healers are the biggest modifier in team vs. team combat (more so with the hybrid specs of sorcerer/sage being so effective).

To OP, just adapt and bring an umbrella (guardian) instead of complaining about the rain. And make sure your team tags to win too.

[Varicite]

Ok, you've tried to make your point. You need target markers to make up for lack of skill. Again: that's not the best solution. Spend some time practicing your spec recognition. Learn to fish. Target markers are not making your PUG any better.

 

Yeah, that wasn't the point at all.

 

Like I said to the others, I'd like for you to find the post where I said that I need practice recognizing healers.

 

I can wait.

 

The actual point that you obviously missed is that I know how to fish, but I do not have time to teach other players how to fish INSIDE A WARZONE.

 

I'm glad to teach them to do so when I'm not in a warzone.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Varicite

[Metalmac]

It was always about focus because it was about marking in the first place.

 

The OP isn't having fun, because she's being marked. She's being marked because she's a healer, and needs to be focused.

 

Still w/ me here?

 

Then you went on to say that other games don't have marking.

 

What we're trying to tell you is that in other games, HEALERS LOOK DIFFERENT THAN EVERYONE ELSE.

 

Which, essentially, is the exact same thing as a target marker when you are looking at a crowd of people. Other games also have much better setups for assisting in focusing priority targets, as well as communicating to the other members of your own team.

 

Since they do not look different in SWTOR, it's hard for some newer players to differentiate between healers and dps. Thus, we mark them, because we do not get to choose who our teammates are, but we still need those healers to die if we want to win.

 

Even in a premade, you do not get to choose HALF of your team. There is absolutely zero way to ensure that you have a team full of people who know what they're doing.

 

Actually that is a lie. WoW took out the mod and addons for this reason.

 

It got to the point where NO HEALER WOULD STEP FOOT INTO PVP. The numbers dropped so drastically that WoW had to ban the addon.

 

If you played a healer at that time you would know that 10 seconds dead every respawn is not what I pay money to play for. I pay to play longer then 10 seconds and that is my money talking. You can do what ever you want with your money if you do not like it.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Metalmac

[Varicite]

Actually that is a lie. WoW took out the mod and addons for this reason.

 

It got to the point where NO HEALER WOULD STEP FOOT INTO PVP. The numbers dropped so drastically that WoW had to ban the addon.

 

If you played a healer at that time you would know that 10 seconds dead every respawn is not what I pay money to play for. I pay to play longer then 10 seconds and that is my money talking. You can do what ever you want with your money if you do not like it.

 

Which part of the post you quoted was a lie, exactly?

 

I said that healers look more distinct in WoW, and that WoW has target of target, a working focus target, /assist, and voice chat.

 

SWTOR has none of these things, which hinders group play for pugs, which is why target marking has become the norm.

[TheronFett]

Remove the option to mark healers is a GREAT idea! Healers get the short end of the stick in this game. I mean, they only have:

 

Heal through DPS unless focused by 3+ players

Endless CC

Able to ignore the CC of others

I Win Button for Huttball

 

Yes, I agree that we need to make things easier for the healers.

 

[Trevellian]

The much bigger annoyance while healing PUGs in warzones is my own teammates LOS-ing me. Seriously, I can heal you faster than you can run. Just stand still for a second.

 

 

This.

 

A thousand times this.

 

 

On the whole healer marking thing? I find it cheap, but I see why it's done - it's (currently) a legit gaming mechanism that gives your team an advantage when you have poor/no communications and are trying to herd cats (Pugs).

 

If I find it being done more and more on my healer then I will simply not run a healer in the warzones as there is naff all I can do to counter it. The icon makes me visible across the entire damn wz and I get trained as soon as they see it.

[face_hindu]

Remove the option to mark healers is a GREAT idea! Healers get the short end of the stick in this game. I mean, they only have:

 

Heal through DPS unless focused by 3+ players

Endless CC

Able to ignore the CC of others

I Win Button for Huttball

 

Yes, I agree that we need to make things easier for the healers.

 

 

Well, not ALWAYS able to ignore the CC of others... the rest of it is all true though

 

Oh yeah, we'll be getting more warzone medals now too... 'cause 6-8 per match isn't enough for me

[TheronFett]

Oh yeah, we'll be getting more warzone medals now too... 'cause 6-8 per match isn't enough for me

 

I'm actually okay with that. I think healers should be able to get more medals in warzones, because frankly, healing in PvP is damn hard work. My char (Powertech) has more options for medals available...the most I've gotten was 12. All classes should have the same potential for medals and not be gimped because BW didn't set things up right.

[Xzaver]

LOL you funny

 

your lucky there's no assists or you'd get hard targeted even more

 

an that's what you get for being a healer

[GrandMasterDarth]

I'm actually okay with that. I think healers should be able to get more medals in warzones, because frankly, healing in PvP is damn hard work. My char (Powertech) has more options for medals available...the most I've gotten was 12. All classes should have the same potential for medals and not be gimped because BW didn't set things up right.

 

From the next patch only the first 4 medals will count for valor/commendations, the rest are just for show... so this fixes that problem.

 

However most pugs i roll with won`t mark healer, but they will kill them first... ok maybe not most but enough... not like it`s hard to figure out who`s healing...

 

So marks or no marks, they will still die because they need to die first, anyone decent enough knows that....

 

If they remove it they might have the surprise they will still die first... what then? Ask for immunity while they are not doing any damage and just healing?