face_hindu Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I agree with the concept that the OP presented, but couldn't they just nerf ranked gear if you're in an unranked WZ? It would just revert back to whatever the unranked equivalent would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaerethDL Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) There isn't enough gear and weapons end game as it is. I SUPPORT having tier 2 pvp gear, and eventually tier 3 later down the road. You don't like it? Then pvp more but don't take away my right as a gear junkie to have some sort of progression out of warzones and out of endgame. Thanks. I wont continue playing warzones if I don't get incentives out of doing so. Tier 2 gear should be a noticeable increase over battlemaster, and it should be hard to obtain. Edited March 4, 2012 by Saereth_Darklighter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BendakStarkiller Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) +1. Gap between not-geared and BattleMaster-geared player is already WAY too huge and in simple duels 1v1 there's not a chance to win against geared player, regardless how good you are and how poor they are. Especially if they got at least single healing skill and know how to use it. Adding any better gear than than would essentially break PvP as it exists. Not even saying about utteler dumbness of any ranked warzones or arenas released in current state of expertize. It will be about "who is battlemaster on my server" not "who has a skill". The difference between full champion and full battlemaster is 2%. 2%. Just to clarify, 2%. It is "utteler" dumb that people complain about BM gear ruining their game when most of the good BM's on my server for instance have replaced all the worthless BM mods (ones with accuracy) and are using mods dropped from PVE. You can use the champion gear ( no valor req ) and throw in HM mod drops and be able to compete without grinding any PvP. (2% btw) Edited March 4, 2012 by BendakStarkiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemmar Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) I understand the idea of having gear to give pvp players that really need a hook something to do, and i do prefer no huge gear difference like the original guild wars. Yet, i understand that SWTOR is not a game with the same target as GW had. Its not a focused PvP game. But i do worry about ranked battlegrounds. Are they gonna be full group vs full group and random vs random or is it gonna be both? If its organised team vs randoms then its gonna be a joke and its not gonna be pvp but a farming session. All i ask is that you have 2 different brackets. One for randoms and one for organised teams. That way everyone can have a match they have a chance of winning and everyone is having fun. Otherwise all you get is one team leaving and the matches ending early + unsatisfied costumers. PvP should always be about having fair matches. Gear already plays a huge factor on that balance but it makes sense to reward those that PvP more. Doesnt make sense to just rob randoms of every chance to Win unless they are in an organised pre-made team though. Final line: Either make 2 brackets so everyone can have a fair chance at getting some gear, or just dont add it at all or its gonna make PvP even more unbalanced on pre-mades vs randoms. The difference between full champion and full battlemaster is 2%. 2%. Just to clarify, 2%. It is "utteler" dumb that people complain about BM gear ruining their game when most of the good BM's on my server for instance have replaced all the worthless BM mods (ones with accuracy) and are using mods dropped from PVE. You can use the champion gear ( no valor req ) and throw in HM mod drops and be able to compete without grinding any PvP. (2% btw) Biased view. Those 2-3% stats are translated into 4% expertise. Wich means 4 % more damage and 4% less damage taken. Add to that the extra damage given by the stats themselves and weapons and you have a difference well over 5%. Stop joking around. Battlemaster gear makes a visible difference. The only thing it doesnt do is blow up your oponent with 1 skill only. Edited March 4, 2012 by Nemmar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BendakStarkiller Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Biased view. Those 2-3% stats are translated into 4% expertise. Wich means 4 % more damage and 4% less damage taken. Add to that the extra damage given by the stats themselves and weapons and you have a difference well over 5%. Stop joking around. Battlemaster gear makes a visible difference. The only thing it doesnt do is blow up your oponent with 1 skill only. You should actually do the math before ignorantly calling be biased. Expertise at 550 hits its roof, anything after that gives diminished returns. Full BM with cube will give 2.1% expertise above a full champ. Stats are only a 4-5+ on each one, which you can make up mostly with datacrons. You should just stick to PvE, from your post you show your obviously biased towards PVE and dont PvP much. Edited March 4, 2012 by BendakStarkiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaerethDL Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 You should actually do the math before ignorantly calling be biased. Expertise at 550 hits its roof, anything after that gives diminished returns. Full BM with cube will give 2.1% expertise above a full champ. Stats are only a 4-5+ on each one, which you can make up mostly with datacrons. You should just stick to PvE, from your post you show your obviously biased towards PVE and dont PvP much. Its not diminished returns, whoever keeps saying this is feeding lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Its not diminished returns, whoever keeps saying this is feeding lies. Also, for anyone who's interested (especially the "diminishing returns" people): http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/expertise-breakfast-of-champions/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-sasori Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 i thought we end up with a T4 Warhero set and the reincarnation of the random bags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valdrikk Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I must say I disagree and it is fun to get better gear with ranked pvp. The only way I could understand if someone cant find any friends or good players to do ranked pvp. But its way fun to gear up and go in warzones and pwns those noobs who arent skilled enought to get that gear upgrade. Hell, its like having an ancient warrior thats been in war for 50 years and has major skillz and major armor upgrades threw his vast years of war and suddenly, someone comes along and says wait we cant fight, its not fair you've got better gear so take it off ok,,, plzz I don't want to get owned give me a chance, plzzz... how does every like the sound of that? dont yall feel like ***** cats now! meow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxiousAlby Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) I must say I disagree and it is fun to get better gear with ranked pvp. The only way I could understand if someone cant find any friends or good players to do ranked pvp. Precisely the reason why upgraded gear should not be solely available through ranked warzones. Not everyone is in or wants to join a pvp guild, half the players in this game dont want to join a guild for character progression. But its way fun to gear up and go in warzones and pwns those noobs who arent skilled enought to get that gear upgrade. I imagine it would be for the geared player, but for the player who cant/doesnt participate in ranked warzones it will be enough to make them want to unsubscribe. Skill > Gear, I can never understand why people think it's necessary to obtain a gear advantage unless they have no faith in their skill Hell, its like having an ancient warrior thats been in war for 50 years and has major skillz and major armor upgrades threw his vast years of war and suddenly, someone comes along and says wait we cant fight, its not fair you've got better gear so take it off ok,,, plzz I don't want to get owned give me a chance, plzzz... how does every like the sound of that? dont yall feel like ***** cats now! meow Actually it's not, an ancient warrior who's been at war for 50 years would put him at about 62 year of age minimum. If he managed to live that long in ancient times no amount of armour or weapons would save him. BW if ranked warzones must offer some kind of reward let it be titles & fluff, dont make the same mistake Blizzard did by forcing people to participate in an aspect of the game just to remain competative. Ultimately all you will succeed in doing is harming pvp with less players participating because of the gear gap. Edited March 5, 2012 by NoxiousAlby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodia Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Like really, BioWare? Blatantly copy WoW in some areas (like this one) while not even giving us a viable LFG tool (doesn't even have to be cross server, either). This just might be the straw that breaks the camel's back and makes me quit for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltra Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I agree with the op. Better gear rewards from ranked pvp would be yet another reason adding itself to the "why i'm not resubbing" list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningcurse Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Ranked Warzones have to reward the best teams with better gear than the rest. Otherwise why pvp competitively? Why aim to be better at it? Why even bother playing ranked if everyone gets the same ****? you carebears/lazy losers keep making posts that sound ridiculous to me. That is the nature of all MMORPGS , you will get rolled by players with better gear period. it's that simple of a concept. every single MMORPG has this. If you don't like the way mmorpgs work get the hell out and play single player RPGS on consoles or go back to farmville. No one will harm you there. There will always be a rich and poor class. Stop asking for equality in such a misguided sense you communists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richoshist Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Otherwise why pvp competitively? Why aim to be better at it? Why even bother playing ranked if everyone gets the same ****? I know this is a foreign concept to you, stuff getter, but there are those of us that enjoy competing for the sake of competition. Knowing that the other player(s) have the same gear as we do and beating them in a fair fight. There are fighters and there are stuff getters. I'm a fighter, you're a stuff getter. You wouldn't understand. I like beating people I outgear. Even I sound ridiculous to me. I fixed it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincire Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) I 100% agree with the OP and the sentiment that it will create a Rich Get Richer, Poor Get Poorer condition. If the situation the OP fears goes live, I will find myself very seriously considering leaving the game. I don't like 50 PvP in it's current incarnation but at least I am still able to stick it out and eventually get the same gear BMs have and level the playing field. If rated WZs implement gear with better stats, it will create an impossible to close gear disparity that will ruin normal PvP for all of us more casual players. Give them Titles, Mounts, and gear with different looks but don't ruin PvP for the rest if us by also giving gear with better stats as well. Please do not turn the PvP portion of this game into "Gear Wars". Edited March 5, 2012 by Vincire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincire Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Ranked Warzones have to reward the best teams with better gear than the rest. Why? There is no sane justification for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgoldsack Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Ranked WZ do not have to provide better gear. If they are given cosmetic items, titles, etc, things they can show and flaunt around for the world to see, people will do it because "they want to be the best". If the gear is a non-factor, people will still do it because they want to be able to say "I am ranked higher than you". Those players won't need the gear to do it, they will do it based on teamwork and skill. The players who think they NEED to have better gear are those players who rely on others whoa re better skilled than they are on their team to carry them to their wins to get said gear. If they were truly skilled, the gear would not matter one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmdatcs Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) I agree with the op. Pugging WZs is just as hard, if not harder, than taking a premade into a ranked match and should get the same gear stats. If unranked becomes filled with over-geared people waiting for their guildies to come on it will suck the same way being a fresh 50 in WZs sucked. The difference is, a fresh 50 knows that with a little perseverance their situation will improve. Ranked WZs should only provide vanity items, for example, titles, different looking gear, mounts, maybe a special color crystal. Another option would be a stat bonus that is only in effect in ranked WZs. It could be a ranked expertise stat that stacks with regular expertise in ranked matches and is not in effect outside of that. BTW: Link to the interview where this was mentioned? Might help me decide if I want to re-sub. Edited March 5, 2012 by jmdatcs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgoldsack Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Another option would be a stat bonus that is only in effect in ranked WZs. It could be a ranked expertise stat that stacks with regular expertise in ranked matches and is not in effect outside of that. That is a most excellent idea. Just throw an "Ranked Expertise" stat on the gear and BAM! They have better gear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry_Ferth Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I have to say that the few arguments I have seen in favor of better gear seem pretty weak. "you people who don't have as much time to grind the best gear need to stop crying when I kill you with my better gear." Really? And that malarky about an old warrior? a steel sword can only be improved upon so much. and a rusty sword can kill you just as easily as a polished one. But hell, back in the middle ages diarrhea could kill you just as easily as a sword. (in some wars dysentery was worse than the opposing army.) Give them a different set bonus... maybe give them a very small rating increase. (like 142) Maybe take some time to make the ranked warzone attire look like it was designed by someone with an actual sense of style. (looking at you space cow... and you samurai robot...) But I'm with the people who've said that expertise should be removed entirely. If someone has a slightly better gear rating than I do, fine. They earned it. but that slightly better rating shouldn't come with a stat that lets them magically do 5% more damage and me do 5% less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSparhawk Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Arenanet got it right with gw1 and gw2, completely skill based game and guess what, it succeded. Im personally waiting for GW2 but to each his own, I hate gear based games but seeing as they dominate the internet atm Im stuck waiting till GW2 comes out. I think new pvp gear they come out with should be cosmetic honestly. Make Bm gear easy to get so ppl fight other ppl with no advantage other than class/skill and let it end with that. P.S. If you want gear progression go pve, leave pvp to the big boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSparhawk Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Give them a different set bonus... maybe give them a very small rating increase. (like 142) Maybe take some time to make the ranked warzone attire look like it was designed by someone with an actual sense of style. (looking at you space cow... and you samurai robot...) Im assuming space cow and samurai robot is Trooper and Jedi Knight seeing as thats the only retarded looking pvp gear Ive really noticed. Agreed and the new trooper armor I seen in the 1.2 trailer looked amazing so Im hoping that was the pvp armor. Edited March 10, 2012 by SirSparhawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashmodee Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Expecting those who farm gears to have an edge on others to understand what Skill vs Skill means huh ? hehe While I totally agree with with the OP, I don't see it coming at all... it's been such for ages in alot of MMOs, and those who call themselves hardcore PvP'ers won't ever agree to be on par with others. And sadly enough, the gamin industry is trying to please those, cause they do all that to get money, not for the fun. Metallica once said "sad but true" ps : make em grind Ranking/Comms for a T-Shirt stating "mine's bigger than yours" Edited March 10, 2012 by Ashmodee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyloh Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 /Agree Remove expertise from gear and make PvE gear = PvP gear with different requirements to get them. Level the playing field for all. Please and Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayneDancer Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Good post, OP! I have nothing to add to the conversation other than what's already been said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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