Hero Engine: why?

[JustTed]

But you've also proven you don't have a clue either. " the game lags out when too many characters are in the same area". The game lags out in 16 player PVP. It lags out when there's 200 players in fleet.. but those 200 are spread out all over.

 

Now prove that the engine is at fault as opposed to, say, the million other reasons this could be the case.

[Barracudastr]

Now prove that the engine is at fault as opposed to, say, the million other reasons this could be the case.

 

Well if its not the engine then its the devs that are at fault because they clearly cant code it correctly. But that code is built into the engine so it kinda loops back into .... the engine blows and is outdated/hard to work with.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Barracudastr

[Azzras]

I dont have to be qualified to look at something say it sucks.

 

Do you have to be qualified to look at a car and call it a car?

 

Do you have to be qualified to look at a piece dog crap and determine that it is indeed a dog turd? Didn't think so.

 

It doesn't take any sort of qualification to look around at these forums and see that everyone (not just a handful of people) are not happy with the game and its performance.

 

I think it does take certain qualifications to identify issues, where they stem from, and solutions.

 

And I'm assuming you do not qualify.

 

Don't feel bad, neither do I.

 

If you don't enjoy the game, why do you continue to torture yourself with it?

 

Seems silly to me.

[Orisai]

Bioware should have continued with Eclipse, an in house engine developed for Dragon Age Origins, then adapt it to a MMORPG, much like Blizzard did with the Warcraft III one, for WoW.

[Clemsonalum]

I dont have to be qualified to look at something say it sucks.

 

Do you have to be qualified to look at a car and call it a car?

 

Do you have to be qualified to look at a piece dog crap and determine that it is indeed a dog turd? Didn't think so.

 

It doesn't take any sort of qualification to look around at these forums and see that everyone (not just a handful of people) are not happy with the game and its performance.

 

But yet you are still here.... leave already

[Azzras]

Bioware should have continued with Eclipse, an in house engine developed for Dragon Age Origins, then adapt it to a MMORPG, much like Blizzard did with the Warcraft III one, for WoW.

 

What makes Eclipse better than Hero?

 

What makes Unreal better than Hero?

 

What makes any engine better?

 

I want details. Technical details.

[lineschmidt]

It is even more sad that those belly aching the loudest and the most are unqualified to make the assertions they do.

This x 1000

[Icebaron]

Why did you choose an Engine that wasn't developed to your exact specifications? I mean, EA and BW make enough, you could have outsourced your Engine development and made the engine fit your game.

 

Instead, you chose the lazy way and are trying to make a game fit an engine. Not only that, you picked a terrible single-threaded engine that can't even process commands before animations finish, hence all of the ability delay rage you're seeing.

 

 

Seriously. Blizzard built an engine to fit their game, they're billions (trillions yet?) richer. You didn't, and you're missing out on Billions in part due to this decision.

Why?

 

I know why. The Hero guys and some top Bioware guys are old friends. Happens all the time in business. It's what friends do. Bioware probably got a deal on the engine, Hero got a huge marketing partner. Would of worked fantastic if the Hero engine was any good.

 

Also, the Hero engine (from what I have read) makes the building of an MMO much faster. The tools to create worlds are much quicker and simpler then say the Unreal3 or Cry engine. So they help their friends out, get a deal, and get to build the game faster...sounds like a win all around doesn't it?

 

So I see why they did it. But hindsight is a pain in the *** and it bit em hard.

[Barracudastr]

But yet you are still here.... leave already

 

Oh yes telling people to leave will help the game out lol.

 

I didn't say I wasn't having fun I am simply stating that I think the game could be improved upon and that I think the engine is to blame for alot of the problems.

 

I am not stating it as fact otherwise I would not say things like "I think" that is what makes it an opinion and it in no ways states that I am not happy playing the game.

 

But I wont just roll over and be like ya its amazing theres nothing wrong with the game its perfect and slurp on biowares you know what.

 

If you cant accept that its your problem not mine.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Barracudastr

[Muskaan]

in fact I think just about every asian mmo dev is using U3 to create their mmo's at the moment. Or a good majority of them.

 

ArchAge is using the Cry 3 engine.

[ShadsAU]

Bioware should have continued with Eclipse, an in house engine developed for Dragon Age Origins, then adapt it to a MMORPG, much like Blizzard did with the Warcraft III one, for WoW.

 

Man, this didnt occur to me.. but you're bang on. Blizzard took a RTS engine, modified it, and turned it into an mmo successfully.

 

BW listened to one madman, started from scratch on a 3rd party engine not yet released, and ended up with a mediocre engine thats tarted up to disguise the facts its a single player game with IRC and co-op missions bolted on ( and is stuck in the past decade).

[Barracudastr]

ArchAge is using the Cry 3 engine.

 

Ahh interesting.

 

I know Aion used cryengine 1 modded up to around CE 2 but I heard it was pretty hard to dev with for them didn't know others were using it they must have made some progress on adapting it better for mmo's.

[Azzras]

Oh yes telling people to leave will help the game out lol.

 

I didn't say I wasn't having fun I am simply stating that I think the game could be improved upon and that I think the engine is to blame for alot of the problems.

 

I am not stating it as fact otherwise I would not say things like "I think" that is what makes it an opinion and it in no ways states that I am not happy playing the game.

 

But I wont just roll over and be like ya its amazing theres nothing wrong with the game its perfect and slurp on biowares you know what.

 

If you cant accept that its your problem not mine.

 

And how are you helping exactly?

 

ZOMG THE ENGINE IS CRAP is not helpful.

 

You can't even say for a fact that lag is due to the engine. You can speculate, but you don't know.

 

If you were truly trying to help, you would post bug reports about lag and move on.

[ShadsAU]

But yet you are still here.... leave already

 

Spoken like a player whos never touched any of the actual MP components of the game. How doe sit feel to pay $15 a month for a single player game with IRC included for free?

[Azumio]

The guy who was instrumental in choosing the hero engine for this game.. left 11 months before it came out. (and that was to go to a social game company.. quite the change dont ya think, considering he coulda had all the credit for a triple A mmo (in theory))

 

Anyone remember what this game looked like back then? Remember those bland looking characters? that wasn't artwork not done.. that was the best they could come up with without killing the FPS. (name any other game that 12 months before release had unfinished artwork as bad as swtor did in their trailers). In the end they had to split it into high-def for cutscenes, and low def for everything else (except the faces.. they backed themselves into a corner with that one).

 

So what happened about a year ago? Rift launched around the same time, and looking infinitely better then SWTOR did back then. I'll have to check my facts, but im pretty sure ther was a blog about swtor in the past year where they had to revisit all the sets because the art department hadnt gotten it right (so who told the art department the wrong stuff to begin with? hmmm i wonder). I can't help but wonder if that was anything to do with the way Rift looked, and honestly Rift still looks way better environmentally. Shadows that dont look like they belong in minecraft? amazing!

 

I'm honestly not surprised that the Gordon skipped town to a casual game company after what he did to swtor (oh did i mention he was at SWG too??)

 

Neil Harris, president of HeroEngine, went on the defensive recently with regards to this game and its reception. One fact stands out quite a lot: BW split off developing this engine more then 2 years ago; they stopped getting updates from HeroEngine themselves.

 

If you had faith in the 3rd party providing the engine to you.. wouldn't you want to keep getting the latest code? BW will claim they customised this engine so much then couldn't easily update it any more. I'd love to know what was customised so much they couldnt manage those updates any more (eg even the space fights are a *core* component of HeroEngine). Either BW lost all faith in the engine, or (and this seems more likely) they thought they could do better themselves.

 

This being the same company who didnt even think on to include a /roll option in a game with master looting. Yer.. wonder who made those decisions....

 

One last point. Graphics don't make the game, theres no doubt about that: They add to the experience. But then why are so many people so vocal about the engine? because once you get past the quest lines, and look into the actual MP part of this game.. its decidedly lacking. This is a single player game, trying very hard to be MP, that we're paying a monthly fee to play and we dont even get proper graphics fidelity to distract us from that fact.

 

SWTOR is a game where the design documents, and the engine, were locked down about 5 years ago. If this game had launched back then, it would easily be top of the charts right now (the missing features now, wouldnt have been an issue 5 years ago). As it stands, it just smacks of being stuck in the past.

 

Great post.

[Azzras]

Spoken like a player whos never touched any of the actual MP components of the game. How doe sit feel to pay $15 a month for a single player game with IRC included for free?

 

I'm sorry that you are having a hard time making friends.

 

I personally play the game with my family and guild.

 

I also meet new people out on the planets, make new friends, and continue enjoying the game and overall my life in general.

 

I hope it all works out for you in the end.

[Barracudastr]

And how are you helping exactly?

 

ZOMG THE ENGINE IS CRAP is not helpful.

 

You can't even say for a fact that lag is due to the engine. You can speculate, but you don't know.

 

If you were truly trying to help, you would post bug reports about lag and move on.

 

Bug reports dont help.

 

We tried that during beta.... i believe for 6 months and the same issues still exist.

 

Bioware needs to realize that their engine is bad and stating it here on the forums will drive it home.

 

There have been thousands upon thousands of complaints about hero engine and this game performance.

 

If you saw that would you possibly look at revising it? Or coming up with a plan to fix it?

 

Bug reports are great.

 

But guess what, their solution is to lower graphics even more and pretty much take ilum pvp out of the picture because they cant fix the problem, because the problem is at the core of the game. Which would be the engine and thats not so easy to fix.

 

It has been a problem not for just 3 months since release its more like a 8 month issue. They have known about it. I do not think it will ever be fixed tbh.

 

Hell the guy that chose to use the engine dropped this project before it was even released.... and the guy that made hero engine didn't even want them to use it because he wasn't confident in it.

 

Can you argue the fact that we are questioning the engines viability in this game?

[Clemsonalum]

Spoken like a player whos never touched any of the actual MP components of the game. How doe sit feel to pay $15 a month for a single player game with IRC included for free?

 

Spoken like a player who doesnt know *** he is talking about.

[LaVolpex]

All those revamps were possible because they developed it in house.

 

/facepalm...

 

 

doesnt matter...as long as EA has the license already,they can dissect, learn , relearn, and rewrite the code as they see fit on their MODIFIED hero engine (aka they are already modding it to their purpose, much like wow devs had to do with THEIR engine...get it? )

 

again, let me point you to the first part of my post...

 

 

time and money...

 

calling them "lazy" when you understand nothing about the BUSINESS decision to use an already existing engine to base their game off is blatantly ignorant position to take

[Balmuck]

It cracks me up that so many posters think they know something about this engine that the team at Bioware didn't or doesn't.

 

I agree that the game lags out when too many characters are in the same area, and that it's easy to conclude it's the fault of the engine design, but really do you honestly think you know more about how to fix it than the professionals at Bioware?

 

Lol, professionals...

 

Yea, they sure do. They're gonna fix the ridiculous FPS drops on Ilum by disabling the laser fire from the cannons on the planet. That's some professional solution right there.. only Bioware could think of.

[Barracudastr]

Spoken like a player who doesnt know *** he is talking about.

 

You sound mad... maybe you should not be here.

[ShadsAU]

And how are you helping exactly?

 

ZOMG THE ENGINE IS CRAP is not helpful.

 

You can't even say for a fact that lag is due to the engine. You can speculate, but you don't know.

 

If you were truly trying to help, you would post bug reports about lag and move on.

 

hahahaha

 

Post bug reports about lag? What will that accomplish? You think there are specific scenarios where lag occurs, but otherwise its fine and the devs might not know about it?

 

"Today i was in fleet. I moved.. it lagged. I stayed still.. it lagged. I rotated 180 degress and I eventually gained control of my PC 30 minutes later"

 

Pull your head out. The only people defending this games performance is people who havent played a modern mmo.

[Azzras]

Bug reports dont help.

 

 

Can you argue the fact that we are questioning the engines viability in this game?

 

My question is, how can you?

 

You cannot pretend to know what the engine is.

 

You cannot pretend to know that lag is related to the engine itself.

 

YOU DON'T KNOW BUT ACT LIKE YOU DO.

[LaVolpex]

Bug reports dont help.

 

We tried that during beta.... i believe for 6 months and the same issues still exist.

 

Bioware needs to realize that their engine is bad and stating it here on the forums will drive it home.

 

There have been thousands upon thousands of complaints about hero engine and this game performance.

 

If you saw that would you possibly look at revising it? Or coming up with a plan to fix it?

 

Bug reports are great.

 

But guess what, their solution is to lower graphics even more and pretty much take ilum pvp out of the picture because they cant fix the problem, because the problem is at the core of the game. Which would be the engine and thats not so easy to fix.

 

It has been a problem not for just 3 months since release its more like a 8 month issue. They have known about it. I do not think it will ever be fixed tbh.

 

Hell the guy that chose to use the engine dropped this project before it was even released.... and the guy that made hero engine didn't even want them to use it because he wasn't confident in it.

 

Can you argue the fact that we are questioning the engines viability in this game?

 

 

so .....what the point then?

 

they WILL NOT , i promise you this, WILL NOT rewrite a new engine just because you dont like this one, for a product they already have released and invested millions on....

 

 

shall they flush all those millions down the toilet, and develop a brand new engine and brand new game jsut because you want them to?

 

i dont know what you people expect honestly....even if they come out and say " yeah we know our engine sucks" i dont understand what do you expect them to do

[lineschmidt]

Bug reports dont help.

 

We tried that during beta.... i believe for 6 months and the same issues still exist.

 

Bioware needs to realize that their engine is bad and stating it here on the forums will drive it home.

 

There have been thousands upon thousands of complaints about hero engine and this game performance.

 

If you saw that would you possibly look at revising it? Or coming up with a plan to fix it?

 

Bug reports are great.

 

But guess what, their solution is to lower graphics even more and pretty much take ilum pvp out of the picture because they cant fix the problem, because the problem is at the core of the game. Which would be the engine and thats not so easy to fix.

 

It has been a problem not for just 3 months since release its more like a 8 month issue. They have known about it. I do not think it will ever be fixed tbh.

 

Hell the guy that chose to use the engine dropped this project before it was even released.... and the guy that made hero engine didn't even want them to use it because he wasn't confident in it.

 

Can you argue the fact that we are questioning the engines viability in this game?

But making posts about how the engine sucks without being qualified to judge that does help?

 

Care to explain the logic behind that?

Edited March 2, 2012 by lineschmidt