Gs/snipers, 100% useless for competitive play

[Seriasx]

With the current state of the game, serious pvp groups will NEVER take this ac, class is alrdeay the least played by far and will be 100% dead once rated wzs come out.

 

I'll start with facts : the ac had so many bugs it was nearly unplayed for the 1st month post release. A lot of bugs persist, the 2 most known being the cover root bug and the unkown effect cover bug. We can't cover on ledges, on some places and we can't cover while rooted. Huge on gameplay, still no fix.

 

 

People spec either MM/SS or leth/df(or hybrids with pts eng/sabo) for pvp.

 

All MM/ss are weapon damage, and thus being negated by ALL armor/defense/shield mechanics. Someone takes the ball and pops defensive cds, even if he's a dpser, and guess what ? Nearly completely IMMUNE to all YOUR damage. Marau with saber ward ? Enjoy being chain deflected, my record being 7 chained deflections. Sorcs and mercenaries will hit. Even without defensive cds you get a LOT of deflections, playing against a lot of assassins ? Yup you'll

be useless and do no damage at all but others ranged classes will do just fine. Why would be penalised this way ? because of your godlike dps in pvp ? Lol no we don't top dmg chart in wzs.

 

Leth/df gets good damage, better mobility. But if only one or your poison/bleed effects gets dispelled in your rotation you will loose all your burst and be 100% useless for the whole wz. Ops/assas can clean dots. Mercos & ops dispell them. And people

use them in group pvp. Plus it will lose the ONLY utility it offered, annoying nondispelling comps for tagging objectives (see next patchnotes).

 

I remember listening devs talking about snipers/gs in previews for swtor, they said we were a very strong class for defending positions. Ho god the liars. Fact is, gs are the WORST class ever for defending, first, we have no defensive cds, shield probe is laughable at best (1.5K+ dmg absorbed ? really ?) and evasion SUCKS, all acs minus snipers mainly use power or tech abilities, and all bypass evasion, hell even marauders are more effective than SS gs against evasion. Meaning our ONLY defensive tools are our hps and our armor, which are laughable too. You cant' defend turrets or doors because there are objects EVERYWHERE. See a sniper ? go behind the turret and tag, he'll need to reposition himself and will be a free hk. Or you could send a stealth class to trishot him too. In group pvp it's the same, turret and get losed, move and get trained. Op opens on you, maraura charges you and you are instantly below 10%, sorcs bubble sprint away, mercs tank a minimum, you die.

 

Cover should be a core mechanic for a class, not a gimping mechanic . It gives us 20% bonus RANGED defense, and it only works against our mirror only if he's specced MM/SS, what a crap. Cover has a huge delay after activation if you want to remove it. See someong aoeing after deploying cover ? your character will herderp mini for 1 whole second. Yup. Gets a small delay upon activation to actually DO stuff. Want to snipe ? Wait 0.3s for the animation, spam your bind and pray. Sometimes cover pulse does not work on melee targets with no resolve, implying you're not already rooted and you can use your tools.

 

Entrench/hunker down and ballistic shield/scrambling field SUCK SO MUCH. See a sorc ? Pop entrench, he sprints behind pillar. Don't pop entrench ? Get bumped/stunned and no matched ? If you poped entrench and try to reposition yourself ?

Well you can't, you lost the buff, will be rooted and won't be able to cover. Same with ballistic shield, ****** range, the bonus is crap and if you don't have entrench to back it up, you won't last more than 2s in cover. It's a pve ability. Remove it completely and give us our reusable defensive cd (less than 2mn cd, like other classes).

 

 

Our ccs and utility are awesome...some snipers think, until they realise they have the only melee stun, the ranged class with THE melee stun rofl. Plus legshot can be deflected and has a huge delay. Want to root soemone ? Too bad he'll already be behind the fire/pillar or beating your healer. Want to stun someone ? Go melee lawl. Operatives get the same ccs, do more consistant damage, kill healers more effectively, techdispell, assist heal the ball carrier, aren't gimped vs defense mechanics, will do more damage in wz. They can stealth for passes. They can vanish if they see a switch on them. They can los and heal themselves. They can heal on the run if specced for heals. They too can orbital strike for area denials too and frag stuff. And you actually SEE some people complaining about operatives utility in wz, and they are still 10 times better than snipers for nearly everything. Facts.

 

 

If you get the squishiest class in the game, you should get the most utility with ccs or the most damage of the acs in pvp. And we have nothing. Melee stun. Others ranged are better for offense, for defense, they don't have bugs or ****** INCONSISTENT MECHANICS which were not betatested, they can either force or tech dispell, they can offheal a ballcarrier if needed. A sorc can sprint/pull/bubble with no efforts and no cast times. A sorc can stun from range, a sorc does not need to spend talents to snare someone. A sorc will do more consistent monotarget damage and a ****ton more of aoe damage. Snipers would be needed if they killed stuff faster, but they don't.

 

 

Good read and shows many of the current problems that snipers / slingers will face in competitive pvp.

[Seriasx]

Learn to pick targets.

 

If you're shooting at a person with a defensive CD up you're doing it wrong.

 

Yeah man I'll just shoot at the guy not holding the ball, brilliant work.

 

 

Maybe we could just sit in a corner for the entire match so we could stop interfering in your warzone, if you need anything else lemme know man.

[Seriasx]

I think you guys haven't seen properly played GS.

 

We have 2 in our guilds, that would rock your world - assist train, they wreck people.

 

Huttball, the center is always ours.

 

Nice, now if you look at the title you will see a title clearly stating "competitive play" which implies that you are playing against people who can do super crazy things like use common sense, terrain and have a basic "or better" understanding of the classes they are facing.

 

 

It's ok though I can see how it confused you by being at the end of the title like that, OP should have said it right away so you didn't have to read all 6 words.

[hakkafusion]

Everything op said is pretty much true.

Hence I'm re-rolling operative atm.

Much better so far, doesnt say much though

Since just about every other class has more usefulness compared to a sniper.

 

so my sniper going to the can until it's fixed.

 

sincerely lvl70 warhero sniper.

[jmdatcs]

Is this thread for snipers (don't know much about GS) to pretend they suck to get a buff?

 

If so, I'm in, I'll edit this post to fake whining right away.

 

If not, I don't think I know what you're talking about. My sniper kills it in WZs. I don't even have any BM gear and I'm almost always first or second dps (usually first), and I have no problem doing at least my fair share to advance the objectives.

 

Maybe L2P.

[Seriasx]

Is this thread for snipers (don't know much about GS) to pretend they suck to get a buff?

 

If so, I'm in, I'll edit this post to fake whining right away.

 

If not, I don't think I know what you're talking about. My sniper kills it in WZs. I don't even have any BM gear and I'm almost always first or second dps (usually first), and I have no problem doing at least my fair share to advance the objectives.

 

Maybe L2P.

 

Maybe reread the thread title or pretend for a second that your opponents are capable of doing crazy things like use terrain, have a basic understanding of your class or another crazy thing like know enemy ranges.

 

In current WZ's Snipers are the suck, but workable.

 

In rated Warzones there will be no snipers in any optimal setup, granted you might not understand what the word optimal means or maybe you just don't know what optimal means in pvp so I'll try to make it easy for you to understand.

 

melle ranged CC + high dmg vs. 1 class and low to moderate against the other 7 + no survivability = we don't want you in any type of pvp group.

 

 

If you think being useless in Huttball is bad, just wait till we are useless in all 3 vs. any other ranged dps class with more top end dmg vs. all classes and more survivability.

 

 

But again I can see how all of these things would confuse 95% of every mmos playerbase

[Azygous]

I think you guys haven't seen properly played GS.

 

We have 2 in our guilds, that would rock your world - assist train, they wreck people.

 

Huttball, the center is always ours.

 

Stop trolling-i hope you are a troll-. Once ranked wz come out, run vs teams with other classes and see how you get stomped.

 

All the points mentioned by the poster are well recognized when you fight skilled BM/champ classes. The only reason your GS shine in hutball -as you claim- is because they are being ignored by pugs etc and the objective is to score not kill in mid.

 

Anyone who touts big numbers as a reflection of how good a class is needs to be smacked. That means those people are not ccing and not running from one objective to another. I'm useless in carrying a ball being a GS. Some of my team mates think its funny to pass me the ball because i have zero ball carrying ability and get me *****.

 

There is a reason you don't see GS or snipers around. Sadly, most imps and reps still don't know my abilities-which works for my advantage- because there are so few of us.

 

Its like fighting an uphill battle with someone waiting with a mallet at the top.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Azygous

[Rooks]

Maybe reread the thread title or pretend for a second that your opponents are capable of doing crazy things like use terrain, have a basic understanding of your class or another crazy thing like know enemy ranges.

 

In current WZ's Snipers are the suck, but workable.

 

In rated Warzones there will be no snipers in any optimal setup, granted you might not understand what the word optimal means or maybe you just don't know what optimal means in pvp so I'll try to make it easy for you to understand.

 

melle ranged CC + high dmg vs. 1 class and low to moderate against the other 7 + no survivability = we don't want you in any type of pvp group.

 

 

If you think being useless in Huttball is bad, just wait till we are useless in all 3 vs. any other ranged dps class with more top end dmg vs. all classes and more survivability.

 

 

But again I can see how all of these things would confuse 95% of every mmos playerbase

 

Yeah, seems that you are the one that has problems. If you cannot figure out how to beat someone using terrain, tactics and crazy abilities, don't assume the rest of us can't.

 

As I said earlier, I do fine and am not useless in PVP as a GS. If you cannot adapt and figure out how to play the class, change to a differant one.

[Seriasx]

Yeah, seems that you are the one that has problems. If you cannot figure out how to beat someone using terrain, tactics and crazy abilities, don't assume the rest of us can't.

 

As I said earlier, I do fine and am not useless in PVP as a GS. If you cannot adapt and figure out how to play the class, change to a differant one.

 

Nice try.

 

Considering the fact that I've played in various pvp games that had actual meaningful pvp with talented players who use common sense, terrain and have an understanding of both game mechanics and class abilities I'll just go ahead and lump you into the group of people I've laughed out of much better guilds in much more competitive games.

 

 

Once again for those who are new here, this thread is discussing rated wz's where players will have a basic or better understanding of all the things I just said, heck you could know some of them and negate my entire class, if you know them all then you are too busy laughing at the easy win in front of your eyes once you see me on the opposing team to kill me asap.

 

I have zero problems in current WZ's and top KILLS most of my matches, I would list my dmg but it sucks since I generally kill people asap like my class is supposed to do and also the fact that total dmg is well beyond stupid as any type of measuring tool in pvp combat, I fully realize that adding 5 extra dps in pve is a pretty big deal but in pvp its meaningless.

[jmdatcs]

I think the people saying they are useless are the ones that don't understand terrain/adv./limitations/roles/range. Every one of those things is a sniper/gs's friend when properly understood.

 

Snipers/gs are possibly the easiest to jump into and have a major impact.

 

That being said, please ignore me and never use sniper/gs. It will make you an easy kill.

 

 

 

BTW

I have zero problems in current WZ's and top KILLS most of my matches, I would list my dmg but it sucks since I generally kill people asap like my class is supposed to do and also the fact that total dmg is well beyond stupid as any type of measuring tool in pvp combat, I fully realize that adding 5 extra dps in pve is a pretty big deal but in pvp its meaningless.

High kills+low dps = someone that gives everyone a little tap (prob with aoe) and never does any real dmg, but because of the little love-tap gets credit for the kill when a teammate actually does the dmg.

 

That statement alone just shrunk your credibility to nothing and makes it clear that your understanding is sub-par.

Edited March 4, 2012 by jmdatcs

[poulpatine]

If not, I don't think I know what you're talking about. My sniper kills it in WZs. I don't even have any BM gear and I'm almost always first or second dps (usually first), and I have no problem doing at least my fair share to advance the objectives.

 

Maybe L2P.

So you're saying l2p because you top dmg in pugs ? And you're not even bm yet so you did not pvp much with your sniper ? Then i'll say it again, even monkeys can do this. If your objective is to top dmg in pugs, don't play sniper, play merc or better, play hybrid sorc and spam aoe, plus you'll get a lot of healing done too (so pro lulz teh scores).

 

Evasion is situational at best in pvp. Shield probe does not scale. The cover defensive buff does not work in pvp. Cover is bugged. Weapon damage sucks and does not get reliable damage. Entrench and balistic shield need rework. Fix these issues first and i mean ALL of them, then we'll talk. Until then snipers suck hard (and can still top dmg in pugs, but only scrubs care).

 

 

Other facts for you : - there was a lot more snipers of snipers at release, at 50.

-they ALL rerolled marauder/operative and dit not look back, and they still play.

-i'm often the only sniper i see in wzs, and i mean 95% of the time.

-and i talk a lot with others pvpers on my server. Noone and i mean noone will take at least one snipe for arenas/rated wz.

-blah blah.

[Vyndeta]

lol this thread. I'm going to have so many problems when rated warzones come out. Buff sniper/gunslinger plz i would very much like it and "need' it.

[JediDuckling]

With the current state of the game, serious pvp groups will NEVER take this ac, class is alrdeay the least played by far and will be 100% dead once rated wzs come out.

 

I'll start with facts : the ac had so many bugs it was nearly unplayed for the 1st month post release. A lot of bugs persist, the 2 most known being the cover root bug and the unkown effect cover bug. We can't cover on ledges, on some places and we can't cover while rooted. Huge on gameplay, still no fix.

 

 

People spec either MM/SS or leth/df(or hybrids with pts eng/sabo) for pvp.

 

All MM/ss are weapon damage, and thus being negated by ALL armor/defense/shield mechanics. Someone takes the ball and pops defensive cds, even if he's a dpser, and guess what ? Nearly completely IMMUNE to all YOUR damage. Marau with saber ward ? Enjoy being chain deflected, my record being 7 chained deflections. Sorcs and mercenaries will hit. Even without defensive cds you get a LOT of deflections, playing against a lot of assassins ? Yup you'll

be useless and do no damage at all but others ranged classes will do just fine. Why would be penalised this way ? because of your godlike dps in pvp ? Lol no we don't top dmg chart in wzs.

 

Leth/df gets good damage, better mobility. But if only one or your poison/bleed effects gets dispelled in your rotation you will loose all your burst and be 100% useless for the whole wz. Ops/assas can clean dots. Mercos & ops dispell them. And people

use them in group pvp. Plus it will lose the ONLY utility it offered, annoying nondispelling comps for tagging objectives (see next patchnotes).

 

I remember listening devs talking about snipers/gs in previews for swtor, they said we were a very strong class for defending positions. Ho god the liars. Fact is, gs are the WORST class ever for defending, first, we have no defensive cds, shield probe is laughable at best (1.5K+ dmg absorbed ? really ?) and evasion SUCKS, all acs minus snipers mainly use power or tech abilities, and all bypass evasion, hell even marauders are more effective than SS gs against evasion. Meaning our ONLY defensive tools are our hps and our armor, which are laughable too. You cant' defend turrets or doors because there are objects EVERYWHERE. See a sniper ? go behind the turret and tag, he'll need to reposition himself and will be a free hk. Or you could send a stealth class to trishot him too. In group pvp it's the same, turret and get losed, move and get trained. Op opens on you, maraura charges you and you are instantly below 10%, sorcs bubble sprint away, mercs tank a minimum, you die.

 

Cover should be a core mechanic for a class, not a gimping mechanic . It gives us 20% bonus RANGED defense, and it only works against our mirror only if he's specced MM/SS, what a crap. Cover has a huge delay after activation if you want to remove it. See someong aoeing after deploying cover ? your character will herderp mini for 1 whole second. Yup. Gets a small delay upon activation to actually DO stuff. Want to snipe ? Wait 0.3s for the animation, spam your bind and pray. Sometimes cover pulse does not work on melee targets with no resolve, implying you're not already rooted and you can use your tools.

 

Entrench/hunker down and ballistic shield/scrambling field SUCK SO MUCH. See a sorc ? Pop entrench, he sprints behind pillar. Don't pop entrench ? Get bumped/stunned and no matched ? If you poped entrench and try to reposition yourself ?

Well you can't, you lost the buff, will be rooted and won't be able to cover. Same with ballistic shield, ****** range, the bonus is crap and if you don't have entrench to back it up, you won't last more than 2s in cover. It's a pve ability. Remove it completely and give us our reusable defensive cd (less than 2mn cd, like other classes).

 

 

Our ccs and utility are awesome...some snipers think, until they realise they have the only melee stun, the ranged class with THE melee stun rofl. Plus legshot can be deflected and has a huge delay. Want to root soemone ? Too bad he'll already be behind the fire/pillar or beating your healer. Want to stun someone ? Go melee lawl. Operatives get the same ccs, do more consistant damage, kill healers more effectively, techdispell, assist heal the ball carrier, aren't gimped vs defense mechanics, will do more damage in wz. They can stealth for passes. They can vanish if they see a switch on them. They can los and heal themselves. They can heal on the run if specced for heals. They too can orbital strike for area denials too and frag stuff. And you actually SEE some people complaining about operatives utility in wz, and they are still 10 times better than snipers for nearly everything. Facts.

 

 

If you get the squishiest class in the game, you should get the most utility with ccs or the most damage of the acs in pvp. And we have nothing. Melee stun. Others ranged are better for offense, for defense, they don't have bugs or ****** INCONSISTENT MECHANICS which were not betatested, they can either force or tech dispell, they can offheal a ballcarrier if needed. A sorc can sprint/pull/bubble with no efforts and no cast times. A sorc can stun from range, a sorc does not need to spend talents to snare someone. A sorc will do more consistent monotarget damage and a ****ton more of aoe damage. Snipers would be needed if they killed stuff faster, but they don't.

 

snipers/gunslingers do one of the best DPS in the game and they have plenty of OH CRAP buttons stuns and what not to mention they are tough to kill in cover.

 

learn to play your class they are far from useless

 

 

its like these nubs that think sith warriors and jedi knights are weak LOLOLOL learn to freaking play your class

[Aribethx]

snipers/gunslingers do one of the best DPS in the game and they have plenty of OH CRAP buttons stuns and what not to mention they are tough to kill in cover.

 

learn to play your class they are far from useless

 

 

its like these nubs that think sith warriors and jedi knights are weak LOLOLOL learn to freaking play your class

 

This is priceless coming from the nub who complains about everything in the game.

 

Oh sweet irony.

[Vyndeta]

snipers/gunslingers do one of the best DPS in the game and they have plenty of OH CRAP buttons stuns and what not to mention they are tough to kill in cover.

 

learn to play your class they are far from useless

 

 

its like these nubs that think sith warriors and jedi knights are weak LOLOLOL learn to freaking play your class

 

yea we kinda got these guys all over the sniper/gunslinger forums. Makes us look like a scruby class. Owell them getting sniper/gunslingers buffed would b a + .... shtt inc gunslinger/sniper troll

Edited March 4, 2012 by Vyndeta

[Gaidax]

Haha... yeah, please buff Snipers asap, we are still dying 1v3!!!

 

That would be hilarious.

[Alkei]

Haha... yeah, please buff Snipers asap, we are still dying 1v3!!!

 

That would be hilarious.

 

And I was wondering where's Gaidax...

[LordZanos]

Why? It works perfectly.

 

4k + 3k = Healer with 0 health.

 

Didn't read the rest of this thread, but I couldn't let this slide.

 

What warzones are you playing exactly where healers have 7k health?

[EhLiar]

I think i do pretty ok

 

but hey buff my class

[caveslug]

This is priceless coming from the nub who complains about everything in the game.

 

Oh sweet irony.

 

I'm sure old duckling has screenshots, of 10K ambush crits from snipers and 8K probes taking him out in one global.

 

Because lets face it ever class is OP except what ever he plays.

[ApotheosisLanyx]

read like 1/2 the post. thought i'd post this.

 

saw "be a free hk"

 

Awesome.

[AncientForce]

I am leveling a sniper right now as an alt because it is pretty obvious that they are the most broken class right now. Even at lvl 22 I see a lot of the issues addressed in OP. I am going to continue to lvl up because my money is on a fix incoming for this sad sad class soon. Then the qq threads will be glorious as every fotm reroller will scramble to level a sniper. . .

[Gaidax]

And I was wondering where's Gaidax...

 

Couldn't care less, honestly... I used to argue quite a lot on the "issue" at hand, but then I realized: "why bother?"

 

But yeah, keep up the good work... I don't mind getting a flat out buff for no reason, that would be rich.

[Alkei]

Couldn't care less, honestly... I used to argue quite a lot on the "issue" at hand, but then I realized: "why bother?"

 

But yeah, keep up the good work... I don't mind getting a flat out buff for no reason, that would be rich.

 

Well, Why don't you help us if you don't mind?

[Gaidax]

Well, Why don't you help us if you don't mind?

 

I would, but my mommy taught me that lying is bad...