When will SWTOR Fall?

[ConradLionhart]

I don't know about US servers, but the asia pacific servers have very good population. I hope it stays that way.

 

Except for the RP-PVE, but, there was never a huge market for RPers to begin with.

Edited March 2, 2012 by ConradLionhart

[Daluu]

I disagree

 

as an MMO fan preWOW i thought blizzard considered mistakes of earlier games and launched a game that considered those mistakes and acted to address them and still does.

 

Also, WoW then and now does seem very easy in the basic player vs environment sense.

 

Can argue all you want about how difficult hard mode raids are or even vanilla era raids but that is and remains a very small portion of the game.

 

The player in WoW has always had an advantage over the environment , meaning that any class could solo to max level because the average mob and quest did not require a group . This if anything was WoW early , primary innovation.

 

This was not the case pre wow

 

and WoW did not launch during an era when the Genre was young, WoW was the next step in MMO yes, but hardly the first.

 

P.S.

 

do agree though that BW seems to have not considered certain MMO standards in the markeplace now.

 

Dual spec, combat log, custom ui, LFG tool be they crosserver or not . on and on.

 

having fun either way

 

I guess what I meant in regards to care bear isn't on a fight by fight basis. Your right about WoW in that respect and as it progressed it got easier and easier. But when the game first game out, getting to 60 was a grind. It took a while and in ToR that is not the case. Leveling took way to little time and I think thats part of the problem.

 

In fact, everything in this game takes way to little time. Getting fully geared in PvE. Getting the highest title in PvP. Maxing out companions, maxing out professions. The reason I no longer log on is bc I have nothing to work towards, not bc there is a lack of content, but the content is to easy or to quick.

 

And before anyone says get a life, i have a part time job, am a full time student, workout 6 days a week, and I have a very demanding girlfriend. I'm efficient, not a lifeless geek.

 

Anyway what I am saying about this game being care bear is that its so casual focused that it comes up short in length of content. There is enough of it, but bc you can get through it so quickly you lose your interest to log in bc you have nothing to work towards. That is why wow was so successful...it took a while to complete content (including but not limited to PvE) and the reason its losing subscriptions is bc its leaning towards the casual train as well.

 

I'm gonna stop ranting and get back to writing a paper now.

[Blavatsky]

I guess what I meant in regards to care bear isn't on a fight by fight basis. Your right about WoW in that respect and as it progressed it got easier and easier. But when the game first game out, getting to 60 was a grind. It took a while and in ToR that is not the case. Leveling took way to little time and I think thats part of the problem.

 

In fact, everything in this game takes way to little time. Getting fully geared in PvE. Getting the highest title in PvP. Maxing out companions, maxing out professions. The reason I no longer log on is bc I have nothing to work towards, not bc there is a lack of content, but the content is to easy or to quick.

 

And before anyone says get a life, i have a part time job, am a full time student, workout 6 days a week, and I have a very demanding girlfriend. I'm efficient, not a lifeless geek.

 

Anyway what I am saying about this game being care bear is that its so casual focused that it comes up short in length of content. There is enough of it, but bc you can get through it so quickly you lose your interest to log in bc you have nothing to work towards. That is why wow was so successful...it took a while to complete content (including but not limited to PvE) and the reason its losing subscriptions is bc its leaning towards the casual train as well.

 

I'm gonna stop ranting and get back to writing a paper now.

 

i see your point.

 

i dont play that much and just barely hit 50 so will take me a while to max out.

 

But yes, they could make it harder.

 

one step could be adding faction grind with rewards...

 

kinda thought that would be here...

[Shinavast]

GW2 is going to take a toll. Maybe not "fall", but take a toll.

 

If Tera plays half as good as it looks, that will take another toll.

 

The combination could be a mean 1-2 punch.

 

Add in Diablo3...

 

 

Ultimately SWTOR will survive if it gets its house in order. If not, it'll follow the other losing steam (i hate to say "failing -hell people still play DC online and WAR) MMO's.

[Blavatsky]

GW2 is going to take a toll. Maybe not "fall", but take a toll.

 

If Tera plays half as good as it looks, that will take another toll.

 

The combination could be a mean 1-2 punch.

 

Add in Diablo3...

 

 

Ultimately SWTOR will survive if it gets its house in order. If not, it'll follow the other losing steam (i hate to say "failing -hell people still play DC online and WAR) MMO's.

 

These games you mention will not constitute a 1-2 punch that will doom any game.

 

certainly the marketplace will continue to be divided, but you must also considered that it is also growing

 

and amidst this growth there is one monolith that houses an enormous multitude of players that are looking to jump ship.

 

Certainly WoW's future is not defined by growth but rather stemming the tide of losses.

 

These fleeing gamers will find homes somewhere.some wont game at all.

 

This same story of multiple competitors dividing up a marketplace has been retold in the theme of many different businesses.

 

There are plenty of gamers to accomodate these releases. were there not, you would'nt see these releases.

[lymphangioma]

I guess what I meant in regards to care bear isn't on a fight by fight basis. Your right about WoW in that respect and as it progressed it got easier and easier. But when the game first game out, getting to 60 was a grind. It took a while and in ToR that is not the case. Leveling took way to little time and I think thats part of the problem.

 

In fact, everything in this game takes way to little time. Getting fully geared in PvE. Getting the highest title in PvP. Maxing out companions, maxing out professions. The reason I no longer log on is bc I have nothing to work towards, not bc there is a lack of content, but the content is to easy or to quick.

 

And before anyone says get a life, i have a part time job, am a full time student, workout 6 days a week, and I have a very demanding girlfriend. I'm efficient, not a lifeless geek.

 

Anyway what I am saying about this game being care bear is that its so casual focused that it comes up short in length of content. There is enough of it, but bc you can get through it so quickly you lose your interest to log in bc you have nothing to work towards. That is why wow was so successful...it took a while to complete content (including but not limited to PvE) and the reason its losing subscriptions is bc its leaning towards the casual train as well.

 

I'm gonna stop ranting and get back to writing a paper now.

 

I'm still boggled whenever hearing folks say that 'The Old Republic' doesn't have enough content "or" that it's easy to blow through it all. Even though I've had this game since Day One, I just finally reached Level 20 earlier today. Granted, I didn't play the game for a good month after the first week though because of my hectic life schedule.

 

Unlike most RPG / MMO junkies however, I'm more enthralled with the overall story-line and love just running around aimlessly and exploring every nook and cranny. Not to mention, I never skip (spacebar) any of the narrative and revel more in the character development, rather than worry about Level Progression.

 

Personally, I'm not worried about trying to keep-up with the rest of the population, and figure there will always be enough people around roughly the same Level as myself. Furthermore, it seems that many gamers are only leveling-up one character class, without even bothering to touch what the other 7 have to offer. Don't get me wrong, to each their own, since everyone is going to play in whatever fashion they choose.

 

I just find that with an INCREDIBLE story (or should I say "stories) that 'TOR' has to offer, why not experience each Class over time if the opportunity presents itself? Even though I plan to reach Level 50 with my Bounty Hunter eventually, I'm still anticipating playing through this game MULTIPLE times - and I GUARANTEE it's going to take me YEARS to accomplish such a feat. Sheesh, I'm lucky to play a few hours every few days... so at this rate, I basically have a life-time of 'TOR' content.

[LucisAbyssus]

It's better proof than you have, buddy. Considering you have none to support your claims that the game is growing.

 

Am I going to take your word over MY experience (and many others), and the official server population site for TOR?

 

And debunked by who? The same blind fanboys claiming that the game is growing with no proof?

 

 

If it were the official server population website for TOR it would be a webpage on swtor.com and not on some fan made website.

 

Your proof is just as good as theirs, or lack thereof. You seem angry. Go calm down.

[LucisAbyssus]

this graph will tell you everything you need to know.

 

http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us/trends

 

full servers none existent

heavy servers on decline

light servers on the rise

 

How anyone can translate that into a growing community is beyond me, and the fanboys arguing this are doing more harm to their beloved Bioware than good.

 

There is something wrong with this game, we need to identify it and fix it. Or we could bury our heads in the sand and hope reality leaves us alone.

 

It tells me nothing I need to know.

[LucisAbyssus]

I'm pretty sure no one is paying for this game just to sit on the forums hating on it. People are allowed to voice their opinion (I know, that's something shocking to you Biodrones) even if it's negative.

 

Really, you have no one to blame but yourself for the negativity spreading on the forums. You all come out of no-where and flame the **** out of any thread not singing the game praise. It's disgusting.

 

Not our fault you people would rather ***** on the forum than play the game and then act as if you're being constructive.

[Daluu]

These games you mention will not constitute a 1-2 punch that will doom any game.

 

certainly the marketplace will continue to be divided, but you must also considered that it is also growing

 

and amidst this growth there is one monolith that houses an enormous multitude of players that are looking to jump ship.

 

Certainly WoW's future is not defined by growth but rather stemming the tide of losses.

 

These fleeing gamers will find homes somewhere.some wont game at all.

 

This same story of multiple competitors dividing up a marketplace has been retold in the theme of many different businesses.

 

There are plenty of gamers to accomodate these releases. were there not, you would'nt see these releases.

 

I think it will hurt this game more though bc of many different problems, including horrible customer service, dated graphics, bad engine, class imbalance, faction imbalance, bad gearing system (both PvP and PvE), lack of many standard MMO features, lack of communication from the Devs regarding many of the problems people have, the fact this is almost a single player game in many respects, the fact that bug fixes are coming out in very small amounts, etc.

 

Pleasing people these days is very hard in MMOs bc of the high standards we now have. And while BW had the budget to make a very good game, they instead focused on adding that 4th pillar. While cool...VOs and a good story don't make up for all of the problems I listed above.

 

Besides...I can read a book to experience a good story. I pay(keyword here) to play MMOs for other reasons.

[LucisAbyssus]

It's fine if you enjoy what BW has crapped out. But objectively, this game falls short in many categories. Even considering it's still-young state, the game has launched with a quality that would have been acceptable 5 years ago.

 

And as far as it falling, well that depends on what you consider falling. I think many people who are pointing to its decline are doing so based on the hype, the resources, and the intended scope of this project. If you had followed this game since alpha like many of us have, you would be equally shocked and disappointed at the state of things now.

 

After 1.2, it will be more clear as to how successful this game will be, but as of right now things are looking bleak.

 

That's not to say that the game isn't fun for you or others, and that doesn't mean the game will disappear. What most of us mean by "fall" is that it probably won't thrive and expand at the rate of a game like WoW.

 

This is looking to be more like some lesser-known niche-MMOs who do just fine and are fun for their community, but aren't pushing out tons of content and bringing players from across the gamer spectrum into the level cap and end game for years. And considering the way the game was advertised to the MMO world, that would be falling.

 

I have news for you.

 

SW:TOR expanded at launch faster than WoW.

 

Fastest growing MMO in history.

 

As for your little "won't thrive and expand at the rate of a game like WoW."

 

I have more news for you.

 

Other than SW:TOR, no game thrived or expanded at the rate of a game like WoW.

 

Compare SW:TOR's population rate and how fast it expanded at launch with ANY OTHER MMO that released within the past year and a half and you will see.

 

1. Sold more reserved copies than Cataclysm.

2. Grew faster than DCUO and Rift.

3. Taking in to consideration server up time, Had a smoother launch than DCUO and Rift.

 

This is not a fanboy rant.

 

These are facts.

Edited March 2, 2012 by LucisAbyssus

[JeremyDale]

When will SWTOR Fall?

 

When I think of the MMO community I am reminded greatly of the first person shooter industry. In the FPS industry there is total brand recognition and brand loyalty. People who play Halo 3 are insanely critical of every other first person shooter out there.

 

People who quit Halo 3 are worse. People who quit Halo 3 end up looking for a game that simply does not exist

 

In a similar way the old MMORPG community still flocks around looking for the perfect MMO game. While Massively.com represents a very positive MMO community, MMORPG.com represents the disdain of former World of Warcraft players.

 

Star Wars: The Old Republic for so many was a chance at making another World of Warcraft.

 

Less than a week after the game launched people were clamoring that the game population shrank…. it did not.

 

A month after people claimed it shrank… it did not.

 

We’re now two months in and all signs show the game’s population is still growing.

 

The thing people are slowly realizing is that the large population of the game isn’t level capped. While the Fleet Republic will see around 200 people, the other zones will look at about 40-50 players each.

 

Star Wars: The Old Republic is still growing and all signs show that it’s population will not fall any time soon.

 

So the question is… when will it fall. Or more appropriately, what will cause it to fall. There is after all a chance that SWTOR will continue to grow in sales and will find a revenue model that will attract more constant players.

 

So off to what will cause SWTOR to fall!

 

http://thegameguru.me/2012/02/29/when-will-swtor-fall/

 

 

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SWTOR gets boring fast. That's the problem with it - and why so many gamers predict it's failure.

 

It's not a bad game, it's just over with too fast and after you reach level 50 the game loses it's appeal quickly, as there just isn't much to do outside of a few hardmode instances and operations.

 

You may say it's not dying, but it is - least on my server. If the over-all population hasn't decreased it's just because a lot of the people who have left are being replaced by newer players who only recently started playing or subscribers who have already mostly quit playing just haven't unsubbed yet in hopes things will get better soon.

 

This game doesn't have what it takes to last a long time in its current form IMHO, and unless some significant additions are added this game's future looks pretty bleak.

 

Even some of my friends who were huge Bioware fans and pratically worshipped this game are becoming bored with it - and that's not a good sign.

[LucisAbyssus]

I think it will hurt this game more though bc of many different problems, including horrible customer service, dated graphics, bad engine, class imbalance, faction imbalance, bad gearing system (both PvP and PvE), lack of many standard MMO features, lack of communication from the Devs regarding many of the problems people have, the fact this is almost a single player game in many respects, the fact that bug fixes are coming out in very small amounts, etc.

 

Pleasing people these days is very hard in MMOs bc of the high standards we now have. And while BW had the budget to make a very good game, they instead focused on adding that 4th pillar. While cool...VOs and a good story don't make up for all of the problems I listed above.

 

Besides...I can read a book to experience a good story. I pay(keyword here) to play MMOs for other reasons.

 

You mean impossible standards the self-entitled gamers set that took WoW, the king of all MMO's years to pump out.

[LucisAbyssus]

SWTOR gets boring fast. That's the problem with it - and why so many gamers predict it's failure.

 

It's not a bad game, it's just over with too fast and after you reach level 50 the game loses it's appeal quickly, as there just isn't much to do outside of a few hardmode instances and operations.

 

You may say it's not dying, but it is - least on my server. If the over-all population hasn't decreased it's just because a lot of the people who have left are being replaced by newer players who only recently started playing or subscribers who have already mostly quit playing just haven't unsubbed yet in hopes things will get better soon.

 

This game doesn't have what it takes to last a long time in its current form IMHO, and unless some significant additions are added this game's future looks pretty bleak.

 

Even some of my friends who were huge Bioware fans and pratically worshipped this game are becoming bored with it - and that's not a good sign.

 

Good thing this is an MMO then, where there's plenty of room to grow and improve on both content and software for the game.

 

Otherwise I would have been worried.

 

In other words, as long as this is an MMO where people continue to subscribe to the game no matter what, Bioware will continue to focus on improving the game.

 

No person on this forum who makes a thread or post with "This game is fail and here's why" is constructive. They just want to take their anger out on the Developers because they thought they were going to get a perfect MMO product at launch.

 

Not one god damn MMO launched perfectly, which is the kicker.

Edited March 2, 2012 by LucisAbyssus

[JeremyDale]

Good thing this is an MMO then, where there's plenty of room to grow and improve on both content and software for the game.

 

Otherwise I would have been worried.

 

In other words, as long as this is an MMO where people continue to subscribe to the game no matter what, Bioware will continue to focus on improving the game.

 

No person on this forum who makes a thread or post with "This game is fail and here's why" is constructive. They just want to take their anger out on the Developers because they thought they were going to get a perfect MMO product at launch.

 

Not one gosh darn MMO launched perfectly, which is the kicker.

 

Your reply was a lot better before you added the later nonsense to it

[LucisAbyssus]

Your reply was a lot better before you added the later nonsense to it

 

Your reply was a lot better before you hit submit reply.

 

I'll leave you with this:

 

As long as EA and Bioware are in control of the product, it will have the necessary funds and resources to improve and sustain the game for a long period of time.

Edited March 2, 2012 by LucisAbyssus

[Daluu]

You mean impossible standards the self-entitled gamers set that took WoW, the king of all MMO's years to pump out.

 

So your saying that its ok that there are performance issues with the game due to the crappy engine they choose to run it on? Or that they push out a very small amount of bug fixes each patch (probably due to bad coding), which elongates the bad experience of players? Or that its ok that a majority of people who put in a ticket either get their ticket closed or just get a generic response that doesn't help at all?

 

Yea sure imbalance and other problems always going to be present but some of the bigger problems could have been fixed before release. The performance issues have been known since early beta and they did nothing about it, even after a major name in the computer world told them something was wrong (Tom's Hardware). The lack of high rez graphics is completely due to render issues (I.E. the engine is bad). And having good customer service is to high a standard??? I'm sorry, WHAT?

 

These aren't impossible standards...

[Daluu]

Your reply was a lot better before you hit submit reply.

 

Wow...

Edited March 2, 2012 by Daluu

[JeremyDale]

Your reply was a lot better before you hit submit reply.

 

That didn't even make sense.

 

Much like that nonsense you added about players making posts out of anger because they failed to receive perfection...

 

People predict this game's failure because of how quickly it becomes boring. It has nothing to do with anger or an inability to cope with less than perfection.

 

The only good point you made is that it's an MMORPG and there is room for improvement, so let's hope Bioware delivers. There is no need to start trying to generalize posters and smeer them as angry whiney people who hate anything that isnt' perfect.

 

You lose all credibility when you start going down that road.

[AHChrist]

As soon as GW2 is released...90% of the people playing will leave. This is a gap-filler.

[LucisAbyssus]

So your saying that its ok that there are performance issues with the game due to the crappy engine they choose to run it on? Or that they push out a very small amount of bug fixes each patch (probably due to bad coding), which elongates the bad experience of players? Or that its ok that a majority of people who put in a ticket either get their ticket closed or just get a generic response that doesn't help at all?

 

Yea sure imbalance and other problems always going to be present but some of the bigger problems could have been fixed before release. The performance issues have been known since early beta and they did nothing about it, even after a major name in the computer world told them something was wrong (Tom's Hardware). The lack of high rez graphics is completely due to render issues (I.E. the engine is bad). And having good customer service is to high a standard??? I'm sorry, WHAT?

 

These aren't impossible standards...

 

No, it's not okay. Yes, they have been trying to work on the issue. No, it's not an instant fix. I wish it were an instant fix, because I'd be playing Warzones more often if it were. I'd rather them push out bug fixes than none at all. The game right now, to me, is playable. You aren't anyone of position or power to judge how fast and how plentiful they should be fixing bugs.

 

I wouldn't say a majority, you have no factual data to conclude such a thing. I could just as easily say that the majority get a decent non-standard reply to their tickets that are filed by looking at my own mailbox. You have no idea whether or not some of these problems could have been fixed before release. If you have any understanding of how this industry and its people work then you would know this. Think of it this way: If they found a solution to these performance issues, wouldn't have already been fixed?

 

I mean surely, if it could have been fixed before release then they, as the creator of the game would have fixed it, right? They don't want to lose us as customers, after all. It's a terrible business strategy.

 

QED, Since they haven't found a solution to the problem yet, they more than likely don't know what's causing the problem in the first place, and are still looking in to the issue.

 

The impossibly standards the players set revolve around believing that everything should happen in an instant.

 

Oh hey we have bugs. They better fix it by tomorrow.

Oh hey we have performance issues. They better fix it by tomorrow.

Oh hey I filed it a ticket. I better get a response in five minutes.

Edited March 2, 2012 by LucisAbyssus

[LucisAbyssus]

As soon as GW2 is released...90% of the people playing will leave. This is a gap-filler.

 

Yes, because GW2 is so impressive.

 

[LucisAbyssus]

That didn't even make sense.

 

Much like that nonsense you added about players making posts out of anger because they failed to receive perfection...

 

People predict this game's failure because of how quickly it becomes boring. It has nothing to do with anger or an inability to cope with less than perfection.

 

The only good point you made is that it's an MMORPG and there is room for improvement, so let's hope Bioware delivers. There is no need to start trying to generalize posters and smeer them as angry whiney people who hate anything that isnt' perfect.

 

You lose all credibility when you start going down that road.

 

You talk of losing credibility by labeling and giving blanket statements then do the same thing that I'm doing but in a positive light.

 

"People" is such a broad term.

 

Look at these forums, the majority of what I see are "people" who whine just because they don't get perfection. Just because they expected it to have everything WoW has and more. Just because they expected the impossible. Are you really going to sit here and tell me that you see the majority of these people on this forum demanding more end-game content? The majority of people on each server aren't even at level 50 yet, 2 months after release.

 

Talk about nonsense. The one thing I hate more than whiny snobby children are self righteous hypocrites.

Edited March 2, 2012 by LucisAbyssus

[Lularapio]

One year before it goes f2p

[JeremyDale]

You talk of losing credibility by labeling and giving blanket statements then do the same thing that I'm doing but in a positive light.

 

"People" is such a broad term.

 

Look at these forums, the majority of what I see are "people" who whine just because they don't get perfection. Just because they expected it to have everything WoW has and more. Just because they expected the impossible. Are you really going to sit here and tell me that you see the majority of these people on this forum demanding more end-game content? The majority of people on each server aren't even at level 50 yet, 2 months after release.

 

Talk about nonsense.

 

If you aren't level 50 after 2 months on this game you are 1. Very slow 2. Hardly ever play 3. Playing alts

 

And I've never seen one person on this forum demanding perfection. And asking for more endgame content - especially considering how quicly the leveling up on this game is - is entirely reasonable.

 

And trying to label the majority of people as whiney angry people simply for pointing out this game's very lacking endgame is what is really nonsense.

Edited March 2, 2012 by JeremyDale