Rheeling Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I'd like to add, that in those situations a GOOD sent/mara causes massive problems. Bad ones still run around spamming slash I think ... Thats the way it should be though. A good team that plays to each persons strengths should do well and cause problems. A tank that knows how to swap guards and taunt high DPS targets can cause massive issues as well. You prob wont notice it as much unless your really watching your damage numbers but there are there messing up your day. Every class can have a huge impact, people are just focusing on the high DPS classes because they see the big numbers (or constant numbers) as they get wailed on and dont understand the dynamic of the group they are facing. Sure that sent just owned you and you only took 25% of his life away. Is he op? Or was he guarded and had hots rolling? Were you taunted? I think 90%+ of theses *XXX is op* threads are started by people who we're simply outplayed by the other team .. note is said TEAM. Well said. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesmcalli Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) I think the selling point behind that is the fact that they can more or less choose the battles they go into. And it's not like they don't put out respectable damage anyway. They do less than Marauders, but they still do a lot. I'd agree with you if stealth wasn't so dodgy. Add to that the fact that at any given point with AOE chances are you're getting unstealthed, if you're at all trying to play for objectives and not medal farming. Edited March 1, 2012 by Jesmcalli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 You have other classes ( Shadows/Sins come to mind) that are DPS and have less survivability, and yet do less damage. really? last i checked they can go tank, or semi range aoe? k thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesmcalli Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 really? last i checked they can go tank, or semi range aoe? k thanks... Tank spec that is squishy, and does crap damage. Balance is a joke in terms of survivability.Deep Inf doesn't do enough damage to justify not going tank. K thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zqsd Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Just root them all game. Its all I hear on vent from my sent friends. they hate root. Snare's are not as big an issue but roots ... hehe that'll mess up thier day real quick if you can coordinate with team mates and keep them rooted as often as possible. Yeah because it's totally fair to have to coordinate a whole team just to shut down one class, yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hype-l Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Heh I disagree with the OP in some ways but I will say the best rated WZ groups may have one. But no more than 1. The best groups will mostly be composed of Powertechs/Vanguards and like a merc/mando healer. Tons of Pulls, Entire enemy group will always be doing 30% less damage. Tons of stuns. Snares, Guards, and OP burst damage. On my PT, I ve actually got it timed perfectly to where I can Thermal Det, Flame burst, Rail shot: To where thermal det explodes exactly when rail shot hits the target and at the same exact time the 100% DoT from Flame burst ticks. I've gotten this total to 10k hit on the target at once fairly regularly and thats only a few globals. Edited March 1, 2012 by Hype-l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMike Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Thats aboout it, 1-2 PTs/Vanguards, 1-2 Marauders/Sentinels and Commando/Merc healer. I lean towards 2 sentinels option to be a bit better, they can burst stuff down every 12s, and with sentinels defensive CDs they tank better than vanguards. And those 3 can root target for 9s. Enough to burn anything down. Edited March 1, 2012 by GrandMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrabs Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Thats aboout it, 1-2 PTs/Vanguards, 1-2 Marauders/Sentinels and Commando/Merc healer. I lean towards 2 sentinels option to be a bit better, they can burst stuff down every 12s, and with sentinels defensive CDs they tank better than vanguards. And those 3 can root target for 9s. Enough to burn anything down. Having read your posts in this thread, I'm convinced you have zero grasp on the marauder class whatsoever. You've constantly complained about abilities spanned over 3 different talent trees. So unless we get 108 skill points, stop posting this rubbish and actually learn to read the tooltips on a class you're trying to have nerfed. TL;DR You have no idea how Marauders work. Stop posting. You're embarrassing yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cempa Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 Heh I disagree with the OP in some ways but I will say the best rated WZ groups may have one. But no more than 1. The best groups will mostly be composed of Powertechs/Vanguards and like a merc/mando healer. Tons of Pulls, Entire enemy group will always be doing 30% less damage. Tons of stuns. Snares, Guards, and OP burst damage. On my PT, I ve actually got it timed perfectly to where I can Thermal Det, Flame burst, Rail shot: To where thermal det explodes exactly when rail shot hits the target and at the same exact time the 100% DoT from Flame burst ticks. I've gotten this total to 10k hit on the target at once fairly regularly and thats only a few globals. You think its ok to be able to light up some one in PvP for 10k 'regularly?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaosmagistrate Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Having read your posts in this thread, I'm convinced you have zero grasp on the marauder class whatsoever. You've constantly complained about abilities spanned over 3 different talent trees. So unless we get 108 skill points, stop posting this rubbish and actually learn to read the tooltips on a class you're trying to have nerfed. TL;DR You have no idea how Marauders work. Stop posting. You're embarrassing yourself. Agreed. Where do these people come from? Like they take zero time to learn other classes' abilities. At most they go onto torhead and copy paste the abilities, if at all. All these people keep talking about 3s roots as Sentinels, which is deep Combat. But the overall complaint is against Watchman Sentinels(who got nerfed in PvE and buffed in PvP with the Searing Saber fix). It's like half these people complaining about Sents and Maras just make **** up because they got outplayed and can't admit it. Force Choke is a stun? I'm sorry what. 3rd best CC in the game...What do you smoke? I wouldn't even call Force Choke a stun, as it's channeled can be interrupted and pushbacked and the channerler can't do jack all while channeling it. Maras are easily countered by smart CC. That can be said about any class, but Watchman Sentinels are definitely amongst the easiest to kite. And yes Transcedance can be used to offset that, but you lose the high damage of Zen. Once someone comes up with an infomrative post saying detailing how Maras are OP with a decent amount of context, then I will believe there is some argument. All I see are half-baked isolated situations and pen-and-paper comparisons of abilities with random abilities. Comparing Flashbang and Awe is pointless. The end effect is similar, but the duration, the application mechanic, the resource cost are all different. Flash lasts longer, but the throw requires very good targeting and timing, whereas Awe is point-blank but can be dificult to time, but can generally get more people than Flash. Flash uses readily available energy, while Awe uses focus(which usually is available but in a lot of situations it is not-due to starting out bone dry) Most of the people in this thread complaining got outplayed. If they took away Merciless Slash and gave it /hug, they would still lose, because they simply don't take the time to learn their class and learn other classes through literature, dueling, and inquisition. There is a simple reason why I was able to defeat Mages on my rogue in Vanilla, because I played both, and I knew exactly what Mages were capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogi-Wan-BG Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Having read your posts in this thread, I'm convinced you have zero grasp on the marauder class whatsoever. You've constantly complained about abilities spanned over 3 different talent trees. So unless we get 108 skill points, stop posting this rubbish and actually learn to read the tooltips on a class you're trying to have nerfed. TL;DR You have no idea how Marauders work. Stop posting. You're embarrassing yourself. +1 This !!! Agreed. Where do these people come from? Like they take zero time to learn other classes' abilities. At most they go onto torhead and copy paste the abilities, if at all. All these people keep talking about 3s roots as Sentinels, which is deep Combat. But the overall complaint is against Watchman Sentinels(who got nerfed in PvE and buffed in PvP with the Searing Saber fix). It's like half these people complaining about Sents and Maras just make **** up because they got outplayed and can't admit it. Force Choke is a stun? I'm sorry what. 3rd best CC in the game...What do you smoke? I wouldn't even call Force Choke a stun, as it's channeled can be interrupted and pushbacked and the channerler can't do jack all while channeling it. Maras are easily countered by smart CC. That can be said about any class, but Watchman Sentinels are definitely amongst the easiest to kite. And yes Transcedance can be used to offset that, but you lose the high damage of Zen. Once someone comes up with an infomrative post saying detailing how Maras are OP with a decent amount of context, then I will believe there is some argument. All I see are half-baked isolated situations and pen-and-paper comparisons of abilities with random abilities. Comparing Flashbang and Awe is pointless. The end effect is similar, but the duration, the application mechanic, the resource cost are all different. Flash lasts longer, but the throw requires very good targeting and timing, whereas Awe is point-blank but can be dificult to time, but can generally get more people than Flash. Flash uses readily available energy, while Awe uses focus(which usually is available but in a lot of situations it is not-due to starting out bone dry) Most of the people in this thread complaining got outplayed. If they took away Merciless Slash and gave it /hug, they would still lose, because they simply don't take the time to learn their class and learn other classes through literature, dueling, and inquisition. There is a simple reason why I was able to defeat Mages on my rogue in Vanilla, because I played both, and I knew exactly what Mages were capable of. +1 and this ! Nice said both of you guys Edited March 1, 2012 by Ogi-Wan-BG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Yeah because it's totally fair to have to coordinate a whole team just to shut down one class, yup. A Sorc can do it on their own. Sniper too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mufutiz Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Why would anyone care about how it performs <49 in topic about ranked WZs? Its about: a) how they perform on BM level b) how do they perform in coordinated premade group (1vs1 to lesser degree) this topic is about one thing only - offering a place for bad players to vent after getting owned in a 1on1 siotuation. nobody playing in a coordinated premade group can see sent/mara as an issue. A great class with invaluable group utility, yes. But 1 sent/mara is all you need in the group. There are FAR better classes to stack. And suggesting nerfs to their survival cooldowns just shows how clueless you people are, as long as you pretend that your interest is balanced competetive premade pvp. You couldn't be more obvious that your mindless whining is about 1on1 only. A lot of butthurt mercs in this thread. Edited March 1, 2012 by mufutiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krytycal Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Maras aren't only good 1vs1, they are also one of the best class to have in your premade. Our premade runs to 2-3 marauders and they're awesome. Can't remember the last time we lost a huttball with all their defensive cooldowns, charge, predation, and actually being able to kill people (unlike juggernaughts). They are one of the best classes to have there. They are also very good at defending the door and turrets in the other two warzones since they can all heal each other with their berserks, and can hang around and interrupt caps against crazy odds longer than any other class thanks to again their defensive shields and force camo + undying rage. Staying alive for an extra 10 seconds can be a game changer in those two warzones. If you think maras aren't awesome in teams, you are clearly delusional. Edited March 1, 2012 by Krytycal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khajak Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Sentinel /Marauder CD's can not stay as short as they are now for Rated WZ the AC -Watchman / Annihilation - is a bit over the top. ^^ This guy has obviously never played either of the classes long or at all. I have a 50 Battlemaster Marauder, Valor rank 65, first on my server. Due to me being completely frustrated by Jug's in pvp out DPSing me w/ heavy armor and bored of the dailies in Ilum, The sent/mara class needs some huge upgrades/buffs, w/e because in gear and in high end pvp, yes, we do good damage if played right, but not good enough. We also die alot and easily if focused. I'm always focused. I have sepnt most of my career in the Rage tree. Good AOE dps, good slows (which we need because we are either stunned, slowed, knocked back, all of the above for 90% of the game) and Rage is the best survival for a Mara. I just tried Ann tree after the fixed it. Single target DPS is awesome, good for interrupts. Easier to kill annoying Sorc/Sage/Trooper healers that take the force of God to crush, but, I die even 10 times faster so it's not really practical unless you have a healer dedicated to you. So, with that tid bit being said, Mara/Sents are not the best DPS/Armor ratio by far (I rolled arsenal BH because of it ) and you get CC'ed so much it's rediculous. Mara/Sent are only practical with a dedicated healer. Obviously BW favors ranged. I stopped playing my Mara completely until, if ever they get fixed properly. I'm not going to get out DPS'ed by a Jug and wear S*it armor doing it. (Yes, I know how to play my guy so shut up if you're going to say I don't) If anything, we need faster cool downs but that's not going to solve melee's issues either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlander Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 The funny thing is if they feel it is so overpowered why do they not play one... OHH cuz Sent/Marauder is not a 1 button spam class and takes some skill to be good at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cempa Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Force Leap talented (12 sec CD) Immobilize for 3 sec + Snare that has no CD both are off Resolve. Everything Watchman/Annihilation has Immobilize/Snare puts it over the top. Watchman/Annihilation is Rage/Focus intensive and require the player to really concentrate and mange it well as you need enough Rage/Focus as soon as your offensive ability CD is up. It is not for every one even if you have a 65 Valor Mara! Those who have figured out how to manage Rage/Focus as a Watchman/Annihilation are wrecking machines unstoppable literally owning any one in light armor or slightly under geared from them. Give them support and they are the most OP build in the game arguably. Rated WZ: How are we supposed to play/deal with a team with Watchman/Annihilation + Vanguard/Powetech + Juggernaut/Jedi Knight. If you have those 3 on your team its like half of the battle! Edited March 1, 2012 by Cempa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyHalo Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 lol mauraders are so squishy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyHalo Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 A sniper can interrupt a healer at the same time he is killing a maurader in like 6 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 lol bad mauraders are so squishy. fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanko Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) If you're not bad you can stun lock a sentinel before he can pop his guarded by the force. Wait never mind, most of you just spam disables without thinking so by the time the sent is low on hp he has full resolve. Edited March 1, 2012 by ryanko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hype-l Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 You think its ok to be able to light up some one in PvP for 10k 'regularly?' I don't actually. Thats why I find it funny when people say Sorc/Sages are overpowered. They are actually underpowered in my opinion (Burst damage wise), but overpowered in Resource management. Thats why they need a Fix NOT just a nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Force Leap talented (12 sec CD) Immobilize for 3 sec + Snare that has no CD both are off Resolve. Force Leap does NOT snare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cempa Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) I don't actually. Thats why I find it funny when people say Sorc/Sages are overpowered. They are actually underpowered in my opinion (Burst damage wise), but overpowered in Resource management. Thats why they need a Fix NOT just a nerf. Just wait until Rated WZ go live and people start seeing Vanguard/Powetech + Sentinel/Marauder + Jedi/Juggernaut ON EVERY TEAM! Exchanging Force Charge immobilize and perma snaring people withing 10m with 20k - 25k bursts! PEOPLE WILL GET BLOW UP SO HARD... I'm sorry but I am amazed at how people cannot see how OP Immobilize+Snare being off Resolve is or are..or whatever! Edited March 1, 2012 by Cempa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyHalo Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 fixed Dude all of them are. Yeah some undying rage that we laugh at now while we CC the maurader and then kill him with 1k hp's left. They are a walking CC waiting to happen and can be bounced all over the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts