Azrienov Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 The shield: a timeless piece of equipment that has represented defense since the dawn of civilization. Bioware: The first group of individuals to decide that the shield, in a powerful and advanced form of energy point defence... is useless against missles and lightning. But really? Who thought "Hey lets hold WoW's pocket, and make our shield useless against 'spells'." I'm curious. Because the shield, as it is, is already a sad excuse for a piece of equipment compared to flat mitigation. Bioware needs to fire the algorithm designer for the way attacks interact between each other. Tanks use shields. That's kind of the point. Now Mercs laugh at that shield, and rain a slew of missles onto it that advanced technology has no answer for(I'm one of them, I admit.) Pretty sure it's time to allow shields to intercept ALL FORMS OF ATTACKS! Not just the few that melee use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daekarus Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I'm pretty sure shields work as intended in PVE, and as for PVP, well... as far as I can tell, neither armor nor shields mitigates some types of attack/damage. Is this a good plan? It sort of depends on whether the TTK on tanks is where they want it. If it is, then it's fine as is. Of it's not, they'll probably change something, even if it's not what you think should be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrienov Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 I'm not interested in the PvE aspects of tanking. They have enough issues with people not liking the way PvE tanking works to fill a tome. I'm interested in the fact that tank specced Vanguards have numerous tree passives that operate in hand with shielding, and improving shielding. If you were to crunch the amount of attacks thrown out that the shield is actually involved in, along with the "two roll system" they implement, you'd find out that shields in pvp are essentially unnecessary compared to picking up flat mitigation. That's pretty lame. PvE shielding? I'm not too worried about, because you can stack for it if you want, or you can go with a better build that tends toward balance. PvP shielding I am. Especially since I'm already facing TM spammers that penetrate high amounts of armorjust like me, and sorcs that completely bypass my armor. Too much armor cracking for a "tank" to just shrug it off. There needs to be a redressing of the balance somewhere, and generally, that belongs to the shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiTaNsFaN Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Tanks don't belong in PvP anyway as far as I'm concerned. Current objective based pvp sorc/sage + tank guard spam is a horrible excuse for pvp, why are you complaining about shields? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sensiblepoast Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 SWTOR, where the real shield is a bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotfuss Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Tanks don't belong in PvP anyway as far as I'm concerned. lol 10chars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysico Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Tanks don't belong in PvP anyway as far as I'm concerned. Current objective based pvp sorc/sage + tank guard spam is a horrible excuse for pvp, why are you complaining about shields? Tanks don't belong in PvP? Ok neither do racoons.. Because that makes as much sense as what you just said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Tanks don't belong in PvP? tanks don't belong in pvp. and i do not remember a tank specc being still so usefull in swtor as in any other game like that. there is no point for a tank when the players are not so dumb like pve enemies to target tha tank oh, and to work as a ball carrier it is enough already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozivicus Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 There are no tanks in PvP, this is done intentionally (in my opinion) by Bioware. So, op, if you want to play as a tank, do it in PvE...for PvP, use a DPS build There are some tankish type AC builds out there to use, Yojack's comes to mind, and those players do well with those builds. As far as I can tell, since launch, the real beef isn't with which build best utilizes or makes up for the short comings of the shield and defense mechanics in PvP, but rather that being a "tank" spec or a DPS spec as a vanguard makes absolutely no difference in your "squishy-ness" in PvP. There's pretty much a consensus that that is wrong. I agree. So, being a tank or DPS makes no real difference in PvP...it comes down to how much more damage you want to do (more as a DPS build,obviously). How to solve it? Use DPS in PvP, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuscarKrone Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 This isn't more or less a debate on if Tanks belong in PVP. My argument: Vanguards are not good for Pure tanking in PVP, when other classes with Bubbles are technically better for tanking in PVP. I love tankging & PVP, wish I could do them together as a Vanguard. I have gone to a DPS/Tank Hybrid build. Because Pure Vanguard Tank in PVP is horrid for pvp in this game. Still run around in PVP feeling fairly tanky, and at the same time putting up the most or second most Damage in every WZ I do. I don't burst damage people down, but I burn them down over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artighur Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) Tanks don't belong in PvP anyway as far as I'm concerned. Current objective based pvp sorc/sage + tank guard spam is a horrible excuse for pvp, why are you complaining about shields? WAR pretty much shown the rest of the MMO crowd that Tank in PvP make the game much more interesting that a DPS race vs Heals Edited March 1, 2012 by Parali inappropriate content - "retarded" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myxam Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 tanks don't belong in pvp. and i do not remember a tank specc being still so usefull in swtor as in any other game like that. there is no point for a tank when the players are not so dumb like pve enemies to target tha tank oh, and to work as a ball carrier it is enough already. Forget that the Flavor of the Month build that dominated the later half of the Lich King Expansion was a Protection Paladin? Tanks belong just as much in PvP as they do in PvE, but it does require a more methodical process than point and kill, especially when the tank has the ability to benefit their party and carry objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuscarKrone Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) WAR pretty much shown the rest of the MMO crowd that Tank in PvP make the game much more interesting that a DPS race vs Heals A block stacking commando in SWG made a very good PVP tank too. Other MMO's have done it! Oh the good ol fun of Ignoring 67% of all incoming attacks even before my armor was calculated in Edited March 1, 2012 by Parali inappropriate content in quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 My argument: Vanguards are not good for Pure tanking in PVP, when other classes with Bubbles are technically better for tanking in PVP. which one? don't say sages/sorcs! they die like flies. the only class i saw with more or similar staying power are knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabusan Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 A pure tank working in PVP as good as it does in PVE would NOT be balanced in the nature of the current warzones, with defeated players joining back as reinforcements in few seconds. Shields are fine the way they are right now in PVP. They might not block all atacks, but they block a few of them, and that is enough to save the extra seconds your team needs to bring reinforcements and save the capture point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannicus Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Shields definitely need to trigger for direct damage tech/force attacks. Defense is already useless enough. The real problem isn't so much that force/tech cannot be defended or shielded but that most attacks for most AC trees are force/tech leaving tank specs as subpar damage dealers. I've got a MM Sniper. I have to know who to target and how to prioritize because all of my abilities are weapon damage, which can miss, be defended, and be shielded, but it also means that against the targets I SHOULD go for I'm still at a big disadvantage over, say, an engineer or a lethality sniper or an operative. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm a very effective player with my shielding spec Vanguard in PvP, but I tend to die just as fast as my sniper does who also has more damage and more defensive cooldowns and benefits as well as more CC. Direct damage force/tech definitely need to be shieldable and I think the tank stance for the ACs that have one should offer extra protection (at least with DD attacks) against force/tech. I'd be ok with, say, a 15% damage reduction against players while active so long as my heavy armor and defensive talents mean something against yellow damage. There's also the fact that many talents of ours rely on dodges/deflects and shields going off. These talents need to work when attacked with force/tech, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ururururu Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 which one? don't say sages/sorcs! they die like flies. the only class i saw with more or similar staying power are knights. apparently you never ran into a good assassin tank? 1v1 they will eat your soul.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sensiblepoast Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 We'll have combat meters soon and we'll be able to verify the shield's performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saprezzan Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I've been wondering whether to drop the shield generator completely for PvP and use the DPS equivalent. I'm beginning to think it would be just a miniscule drop in survivability and a decent increase in damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
origional Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 tanks don't belong in pvp. and i do not remember a tank specc being still so usefull in swtor as in any other game like that. . awww qq from a wow player who is unhappy he cant one shot people. Tanks have a place in good pvp. Bad players just dont understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bglodt Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Hmmm I'll tell you what, pvp in ironfist spec or a more "tanky" spec then switch to assault spec. Don't even swap out gear. You will see how much more survivability you have, albeit at the expense of burst and DPS. Do o think shields should work better, maybe, but not much. I last a long time as a tank, and can take some serious punishment before I drop. On paper it seems like we need more, but in actuality, if we got anything other than a moderate boost... We'd be way op. especially since I do nearly as much damage in tank spec, though with less burst, because I last that much longer. Just my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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