WOW really made me appreciate SWTOR

[Naivesteve]

The voice acting of SWTOR does become repetitive after you've levelled every class but it is fun to watch first time through I'll admit. Never played WoW but played EQ/EQ2 for 10 years. EQ2 used to have voice acting but gradually phased it out as the cost was out of all proportion to what it brought to that game. Ultimately the long term player will end up turning off the cinematics and unless there is gameplay to take his attention their numbers will gradually erode. That is why the devs really have to concentrate on end game content / mechanics as it really doesn't take that long to get to cap when that cap is only level 50. At the moment this game is more accurately comparable with Skyrim. Skyrim with an online chatroom.

 

That said, having already done the min/maxing, hardcore raider thing in other games I am quite happy bumbling along with the storyline, levelling a complete set of 16 characters at the same time rather than aiming like an exocet at end game cap. My theory is that by the time I get all my characters there the devs will have fleshed out the end game experience for me. Due to the mechanics I can't see SWTOR ever becoming the hardcore heaven that WoW or EQ2 offers its subscribers and as such I am hoping for something a little different from Bioware. At the moment this game has provided me with what I was looking for when I left Everquest. That indefinable something that Conan, Warhammer, Rift et al couldn't. It's nice to be in on a game at the groundfloor again. One worthy of my money and attention. If it doesn't do it for you then you are free to look elsewhere.

 

See, this is why I don't think voice acting alone is something to write home about. I honestly think I find it impossible to compare Skyrim quests to SWTOR quests. The quests in Skyrim are well written, highly engaging, and made you want to progress. The voice acting in this game feels hamfisted and uninspired - its soul purpose is to facilitate the boring quests.

 

It's absolutely soulless.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Naivesteve

[ellrochell]

wow is like an arcade game its fun for 5 minutes then you realise your wasting your next 50 on a pointless game.

[Morthis]

I played WoW for 3 or so years i'm not really sure, and yes it has alot of endgame, at first glance, you get an update every 3-6 months, in those updates is usually 1 raid, 1 or 2 dungeons and the rest is un-necessary crap you don't really care about, and after a couple weeks all the new stuff is quite a massive grind, there's not much diversity,

 

Atleast BioWare is actually trying to improve the game, giving us unique options that set us apart from the others and are working there little butts off to give us content as fast as possible, its only been a couple months and we are already getting a 2nd major update, Last major WoW update was a couple weeks before SW:TOR came out and they have no plans to make any more content til the next expansion which is atleast 6-12 months away

 

There's so many things wrong with this post. You're comparing a SW:TOR "major update" (adding one flashpoint) to a WoW "major update" (adding one raid zone, multiple dungeons, and various things you didn't care about), and then say SW:TOR is going so much faster. Well yeah, when you release something like 1/10th the total content you can release it faster, shocker, I know.

 

Secondly, what unique options is SW:TOR trying to give us? So far I can't think of much that actually sets SW:TOR apart from WoW. It's a Star Wars universe, it has voice overs, after that I'm starting to struggle to really see the difference. It's called force instead of magic, swords are made of light instead of iron, but in essence the games play quite similar.

 

Lastly, you pulled the expansion timing out of some very dark place, because Blizzard has not announced a timing so you have absolutely no clue on it. You just picked an arbitrary large number because that will fit your argument the best.

 

Or mabey...just mabey....the game is just barely 3 months old.

 

If you knew anything about WoW, wich you clearly dont, (prolly a wrath baby FFS) then you'd know that it took at least 2 years to ven beguin to flesh out WoW's endgame. Were you to play WoW at 3 months in....you'd just start to see server stability and you'd be lvl 10-20 so far.

 

You either don't know anything about WoW either, or maybe you're just ignoring what you remember because it'd make a pretty poor argument if you did.

 

First on the topic of servers. Only a few servers had much trouble past the first few weeks. I know for a fact that three months in, I was already raiding, and I was on one of the "bad" servers stability wise (not Illidan/Archimonde/etc bad but still bad). So this is pretty much a complete misrepresentation of what actually happened.

 

Then we have the actual raiding part. WoW released with Onyxia and Molten Core as raid zones. These zones were finished, and not buggy. BWL came out something like 6 months later, AQ another 6 months or so later, and then Naxx again another 6 months or so later. Raid content was available day 1, BWL moved away from the tank and spank nature of MC, AQ40 ramped it up in terms of difficulty and less straightforward boss fights, and Naxx improved in almost every area. All of this happened before the 2 year mark you mentioned.

 

Was there anything you said that wasn't incorrect?

 

Here's my view of things. SW:TOR offers a far more interesting level experience. I dislike the pigeon holing in terms of alignment (going pure one way or the other is encouraged rather than picking your preference on a case by case basis), but it's interesting at least. The class quests are fairly well done (I say fairly because I feel they start slow, it takes until the end of chapter 1 for things to really get going). The story was interesting, I really wanted to find out what would happen next. The villains of the various stories are good, by the time you actually reach them just killing them simply doesn't seem like enough punishment for what they've put you through. Overall, the leveling experience was well done, definitely more interesting than WoW first time through (multiple playthroughs become more grindy because sidequests make up the majority of quests and don't change).

 

SW:TOR end game is poorly implemented on so many levels. Class quests come to a full stop at level 50, and they all end in the usual "And now you're the greatest person ever" type of way, which is pretty silly when you consider every single level 50 has achieved the very same thing. Flashpoints are decent but some are pretty buggy. Operations manage to introduce even more bugs to the mix, along with very poor tuning. Loot is possibly the worst mistake they made for end game. Tionese gear serves essentially no purpose when all starter content for level 50's gives Columi. This extends to nightmare mode having no real purpose because hard mode already drops Rakata.

 

To compare the two in terms of end game. In WoW, when you hit max level, you first did dungeons to get gear, then with that gear did raids. Progressing through these raids took time, with some signature bosses like Onyxia or Ragnaros taking multiple nights worth of attempts (or more) for average guilds. In SW:TOR, when you hit max level, you faceroll your way through normal mode in a single night, without even knowing a single thing about any of the fights. With the signature bosses (Soa, Karagga) falling over just as easily as the rest.

 

In WoW, after you'd learned the bosses, you still had weeks or months to go before you'd finished gearing up, giving Blizzard enough time to come up with BWL and keep dangling the carrot just out of reach. In SW:TOR after you've facerolled your way through normal mode once and filled up half your slots with epics in a single night you proceed to faceroll hard mode as well and fill the other half with the best epics currently in the game. Then you go to the forum and wonder why, instead of dangling a carrot in front of you, BioWare decided to dump 5 truckloads worth of carrots on you.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Morthis

[Fezzhan]

trololololololol.

Nah he's telling a truth. Tor is a young game and need some improvement. Wow after 7 years is still better in some way. I like the voice acting but except the class story normally i jump it. And im not an endgame player... i prefer to level living the game but a 10 mins speech just to kill 10 genosians for me is useless.

In any case its a game in startup. Im enjoyin it and for sure there'll be some change in the future.

Just for info i dont play wow anymore and ill continue to subs TOR - it needs some time. Nothing else.

[NoxiousAlby]

One area Wow is superior in the leveling department is the ability of the player to select the areas where he/she wishes to level. This makes leveling alts very easy, if you already quested in the human lands go level in the dwarvish lands or elvish lands. Currently we do get different but in some cases similar class quests (warrior & inquisitor) but always the same order of planets and always the same side quests. In wow I had 8 lvl 85's yet in Swtor i'm severly struggling on my third character. As much as I enjoy the VO & class quests the lack of freedom is killing my enjoyment, in Azeroth I could ride from 1 side of the continent to the other passing through a myriad of areas. In Swtor planets are designed to lead players from one area to the next with out of bounds areas blocked, you cant travel from one side of a planets map to the other.

 

After 7 years of trolls i'm burned out on the science fantasy genre, otherwise i'd probably still be playing Wow.

[Cretinus]

SWTOR's main advantage compared to WoW is not the voice acting, but the fact that, other than in WoW, FPs and PvP are not completely pointless before max level. In SWTOR there is at least so much balance, that one has to group for succesfully playing an FP. In WoW there are classes that can solo dungeons, or fight a complete army of mobs + boss at once without even losing health or mana; while other classes struggle even to perform their natural task in a group.

 

Also, my PvP encounters in SWTOR were rather balanced. I lost fights, of course. But not in a multiple stun lock without being able to perform one single action; nobody has the ability to freeze a complete army 4 times in a row like in WoW. No mixed classes here that tank+DPS+self-heal in a manner that outperforms everything else at once.

 

The main advantage of SWTOR compared to WoW is that it seems to care about balance, both in PvE and PvP. Not saying that balance is perfect here, but WoW is no longer bearable in this aspect.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Cretinus

[laserfloyd]

double post sorry Edited February 28, 2012 by laserfloyd

[Yeltrah]

I enjoyed both games but comparing the two at this point is like comparing apples to oranges. Sure they might both be fruit but past that there are few similarities. SWTOR is still in its infancy, those that cannot see that and expect it to be just as fleshed out as a game such as WoW are either foolishly optimistic or living in a dream world.

 

I did not play WoW when it was released, however from everything I had heard, leveling was a massive grind and it was extremely hard to even locate where the quests were located (I did have some experience with this), the mini-raids that you were expected to run to get gear for raids were extremely time consuming and possibly a bit overtuned for most. Raids were basically Zerg fests where you had to find up to 40 people and then micromanage them through the mechanics.

 

If you enjoyed that sort of thing then that's wonderful, I'm not bashing it. However, it is 2012, the world will be ending in less than a year and for the most part, game companies want their games to reach the largest base of people as possible, which would be the "casual" gamer. The people who work full time and only have a couple hours max to put into their game, the people who go to school full time and may only have time to play on the weekends etc etc. This player base would become extremely disillusioned if they had to spend months just gearing a single character before they could participate in the "endgame" content.

 

Basically, since I'm pretty sure I've gone quite a bit away from the original topic of my post by now, all I'm trying to say is that these two games are in fact two seperate games. If you enjoy one more than the other great, go play that game until something else sparks your interest. The constant bickering back and forth about which is better is a giant waste of time and resources as it all boils down to the individuals opinion.

[Fezzhan]

SWTOR's main advantage compared to WoW is not the voice acting, but the fact that, other than in WoW, FPs and PvP are not completely pointless before max level. In SWTOR there is at least so much balance, that one has to group for succesfully playing an FP. In WoW there are classes that can solo dungeons, or fight a complete army of mobs + boss at once without even losing health or mana; while other classes struggle even to perform their natural task in a group.

 

Also, my PvP encounters in SWTOR were rather balanced. I lost fights, of course. But not in a multiple stun lock without being able to perform one single action; nobody has the ability to freeze a complete army 4 times in a row like in WoW. No mixed classes here that tank+DPS+self-heal in a manner that outperforms everything else at once.

 

The main advantage of SWTOR compared to WoW is that it seems to care about balance, both in PvE and PvP. Not saying that balance is perfect here, but WoW is no longer bearable in this aspect.

 

Totally agree. Nvere thought about that

[Cavi]

I feel like I'm the only one here who has never played WoW.

[Bobzitto]

The main advantage of SWTOR compared to WoW is that it seems to care about balance, both in PvE and PvP. Not saying that balance is perfect here, but WoW is no longer bearable in this aspect.

 

Tell that to the Sith Sorceres facerolling in PvP and PvE alike, and the operatives/scoundrels having such a hard time just to keep up.

[Synamon]

The main advantage of SWTOR compared to WoW is that it seems to care about balance, both in PvE and PvP. Not saying that balance is perfect here, but WoW is no longer bearable in this aspect.

Kind of hard to assume that there is balance in PvE when there are no damage counters/recount in the game.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Synamon

[KittyPrawn]

competitivity

 

Not a word.

[Dayfax]

Kind of hard to assume that there is balance in PvE when there are no damage counters/recount in the game.

 

Browse through the healing forums. You will see many, many detailed posts about the differences between healing classes. Or check out the Jedi forums. There are big differences in threat gen between Guardians and Vanguards, for example.

 

WoW has (and will always have) balancing problems because the classes are much more narrowly defined.

 

SWTOR sidestepped this issue (pretty cleverly, too) by having much broader classes and mirrors across faction. That makes it much easier to balance.

 

I do agree that flashpoints and PvP seem more meaningful while leveling in TOR than they do in WoW (old twinks excepted, of course).

Edited February 28, 2012 by Dayfax

[BravilRennd]

I won't post a book that everyone has to read like so many people do; Instead I will just say this:

 

This game has been out for 3 months.

 

Bye now.

[laserfloyd]

I have to say that it's the other way around for me. SWTOR had a great 'new car smell' to it but it's starting to drag more and more. My friends play less and less and it's almost as if, why bother? I don't doubt it can mature into a nice game but it has a ways to go.

 

I know some people say they don't get the laggy/choppy/delay stuff but it's there. Saw a vid the other day of someone posting they had perfect FPS. While it was good, it was still a far cry from WOW. WOW is just more responsive and more fluid - hands down.

 

With that said, if I had friends on nightly and we could mission together regularly, I'd be all in. It just isn't the case. Maybe they'll come back after a few months? So props for the things they got right but there's still much to be done.

[Synamon]

Browse through the healing forums. You will see many, many detailed posts about the differences between healing classes. Or check out the Jedi forums. There are big differences in threat gen between Guardians and Vanguards, for example.

 

WoW has (and will always have) balancing problems because the classes are much more narrowly defined.

 

SWTOR sidestepped this issue (pretty cleverly, too) by having much broader classes and mirrors across faction. That makes it much easier to balance.

 

I do agree that flashpoints and PvP seem more meaningful while leveling in TOR than they do in WoW (old twinks excepted, of course).

 

Can you show me actual dps numbers of all the classes being close to each other?

[astrocanis]

Can you show me actual dps numbers of all the classes being close to each other?

 

Do they matter? The benefit of not knowing is allowing players to reach their own satisfaction instead of being "geargored" to death.

 

DPS numbers don't matter if a) the party is having fun and b) the objectives are being completed.

 

From my perspective, I've been killed by pretty much every class in the game. To me, that says "balance ain't bad" a lot more than parsing 3 more DPS on a dummy would.

[Bobzitto]

By the time Rift had 3 months, half of the things community asked for had been delivered, we had a dungeon finder, greater means of customization than SWTOR(and no, orange gear is not an option until they make it work with endgame gear), bugs in raids had been fixed and the best of all, we still weren't wearing the best gear in the game. Endgame lasted until the next tier/raid was delivered. Trion does this job very well. Rift's only problem is playing too safe for their own good, whereas SWTOR has way more serious issues than I have fingers in my hands.

[Maltuvion]

Can you show me actual dps numbers of all the classes being close to each other?

 

Of course he can't due to SWTOR being completely void of transparency. Sadly.

[Synamon]

Do they matter? The benefit of not knowing is allowing players to reach their own satisfaction instead of being "geargored" to death.

 

DPS numbers don't matter if a) the party is having fun and b) the objectives are being completed.

 

From my perspective, I've been killed by pretty much every class in the game. To me, that says "balance ain't bad" a lot more than parsing 3 more DPS on a dummy would.

 

It matters when apparently there is balance in the game. I would not be surprised the reason there is no combat log is because there will be more work for Bioware to do in order to balance the game over the whiners pointing out how their class sucks because the numbers say so.

[DarthKhaos]

The thing is, what will keep gamers from cancelling their subscription is how good the endgame is. And while SWToR's 1-50 gameplay me be better than WoW's, once you hit 50 you are pretty much done. Raids are easy, getting full battlemaster is easy, and there is no competitivity at all since we don't have tools to measure our own performance, let alone others. On the other hand you have WoW, which lacks something completely unnecessary for an MMO(Voice Acting), and instead put more effort in balancing the time you take to complete the endgame.

I kinda disagree with you on a few points.

 

1. If you are annoyed and frustrated with leveling you may not stick it out to enjoy the "oh so sweet" end game.
   
2. The fact that getting PvP gear is so easy means everyone will be fighting on the same level. You shouldn't be PvPing for gear but getting gear to be able to PvP better.
   The fact that you have good PvP gear means NOW is the time to really get into PvP not stop. If you want true competitive PvP then people must have equivalent gear. If you out-gear the others or are under-geared it's no longer a competition but a faceroll.
   
3. World of Warcraft has the same type of end game as SW:TOR. So if the endgame is dull here it's dull there also.
   

[Dayfax]

Can you show me actual dps numbers of all the classes being close to each other?

 

Sorry -- I meant to quote the other Jawa, not you.

 

Essentially, I agree. There are PvE imbalances in the game, but they're harder to spot.

 

Edit: Dammit, now there's three of you on this page and you all look the same. Very confusing.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Dayfax

[zebrawizard]

 

WoW is a terrible game. As i said before, and i played the game for several years, the only fun thing about it is the raiding. The game is nothing more than an impersonal grind fest these days. Wether there are human players or AI droids playing with you makes no difference.

 

I played wow for a couple years, and to say its terrible is silly. To play a game for that duration doesnt make it terrible. you just get bored at the end of it. WoW is very boring to me now as i have burnt out of it.

 

But the question is, what made you play WoW for that long? something kept you hooked, i dont feel that for this game currently, apart from the great leveling experience.

 

WoW offered a competitive progression, with PvP it was arena ratings for gear which made you come back every week. Raids had theory craft, squeezing out your damage/capabilities so your team and take on the next boss. (i didnt enjoy raids at all but i can see why people did).

 

Saying this, WoW is dated, the combat is boring and everything streamlined or changed in ways that make gameplay a snorefest (after TBC).

 

SWTOR has great leveling experience, but its endgame is very unpolish in its current state. small things like UI, quickslots, player targeting, balancing, mods.

 

I am very disapointed that the flashpoints after the first one, are just long cooridoors filled with mobs, rather than having some story weaved into it.

[notebene]

its an absolute guess where to go for questing.

 

First, I'm happy for you, glad you are staying and enjoying the game. I'm staying because I'm still enjoying it as well, at least for the time being.

 

I 'loved' this part, just because it made me feel 'really' old. You go back to like DAoC, and you had quests, though generally not a lot. Seemed like there were maybe 3-4 'quests' you could do each level and 'maybe' they gave you half a level, then you had to go out and find a 'grind spot' to move on. There were no '!' over people's heads, you just had to click on people.

 

Go back to EQ, and there were 'barely' any things to do that you could even call quests, at least that was my memory of it. I 'think' there were some rudimentary guides to help you find those gems. Crafting wasn't terribly rewarding (though by the time we got to DAoC, crafting started to get pretty fun and rewarding).

 

Sorry, just a little nostalgia for me. Hearing that it's hard to find quests and wonder where to go next, even through all the years of revamping, not even going back to November of 2004, just made me feel old.