This game lacks epeen

[Bladedakoda]

My entire argument is NOT "gimme gimme i want to feel special", its "if they did how exactly would that hurt you?"

 

And regardless of what you think is qq, you haven't actually countered my argument. You just gave an example of Blizzard making a mistake that has nothing to do with my argument.

 

I don't have to counter it, i have given facts, and the fact is even in wow HM had to be nerfed, in order for most so called hardcore players to clear it. Like edited in my last post, Paragon players were baned for 8 days for exploiting the raids in order to progress. And it was not the first time players from so called hardcore guilds have been baned.

 

It does not affect me i could care less. The funny thing is, the hardcore only end up hurting themselfs and ultimately the game. Because everytime people say a game needs to be harder, then everything becomes harder not just a small part of the game.

[Akirator]

I don't have to counter it, i have given facts, and the fact is even in wow HM had to be nerfed, in order for most so called hardcore players to clear it. Like edited in my last post, Paragon players were baned for 8 days for exploiting the raids in order to progress. And it was not the first time players from so called hardcore guilds have been baned.

 

It does not affect me i could care less. The funny thing is, the hardcore only end up hurting themselfs and ultimately the game. Because everytime people say a game needs to be harder, then everything becomes harder not just a small part of the game.

 

If you don't feel the need to counter my argument, then why are you even talking to me? It might be different if the "facts" you gave had anything to do with my argument, but nerfing one boss because they overtuned it has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

 

And again, the ban you're talking about is because Paragon wanted to gear faster, it had nothing to do with them needing to do that to actually progress in content.

 

As far making everything harder that's entirely the devs fault and not what is being asked for by the group I'm referring to.

[Akirator]

If it's just for "Hard" modes, why the "own stuff" that the casuals would not have a chance to get, thereby actually affecting the casuals.

 

Better equipment does mean better equipped, which can make a big difference in a WZ, or even OPs.

 

Try like we used to, raid naked.

 

It only affects the casuals if they absolutely have to have that stuff, and if they do, then the only thing preventing them from getting it is themselves.

 

And I wasn't aware that you could get better PVP gear doing this stuff than you could get from actually PVPing, which is the only way you're argument makes any sense.

 

As far as OPs go, they do that mainly with their own group of likeminded individuals, so how exactly does that have any effect whatsoever on your groups?

[Vincire]

Games such as this one cannot afford to cater to the small minority of hardcore players else they risk alienating their core customer base. I don't raid or do hardmode flashpoints and so I have even less reason to play my 50s yet I am still playing on alts. Maybe these hardcore types should stop expecting content being crafted especially for them and then delivered to them on a silver platter. Edited February 28, 2012 by Vincire

[Agenteusa]

who needs an epeen factor?

 

My joy is to find you in pvp and beating you along with downing content. Gear is a bonus.

 

I like how some people say "oh I got to battlemaster so now I´m taking some time off cause I have no content or oh I got full BM gear so I don´t have anything to do now".

 

You have. Continue fighting , improving , having fun and enjoying your new gear .

 

Tbh if your concept of fun is getting the best gear you won´t enjoy most mmo´s imo since you can get most of it pretty quickly.

[daMarek]

If you don't raid it's your own fault and you are voluntary missing out on half the content.

 

It's the same as buying CoD and only doing the single player missions - you are missing out on half the game by your own choice

[Akirator]

Games such as this one cannot afford to cater to the small minority of hardcore players else they risk alienating their core customer base. I don't raid or do hardmode flashpoints and so I have even less reason to play my 50s yet I am still playing on alts. Maybe these hardcore types should stop expecting content being crafted especially for them and then delivered to them on a silver platter.

 

I don't think you understand what catering means. We're not asking to take anything away from you or change your game to suit us. We're asking for a tiny piece to be added for us that in no way affects your gameplay.

 

But apparently what you want is 100% of this game targeted specifically at you and hardcores get nothing.

[Warjhinn]

This game lacks progression based third party websites basically =) give it time. Rome wasnt built in a day.

 

 

You say that, and it's true, but this community will say "That was then, this is now, I expect my Rome to suddenly appear fully formed and with more amenities than the original."

 

It's the Me Generation meets the Now Generation.

[Vincire]

I don't think you understand what catering means. We're not asking to take anything away from you or change your game to suit us. We're asking for a tiny piece to be added for us that in no way affects your gameplay.

 

But apparently what you want is 100% of this game targeted specifically at you and hardcores get nothing.

 

Hardcore players already have raids with multiple levels of difficulty. I don't raid and therefore I do not see these places. You hardcore types already see more of the game than I do. What more do you want? Why do you and your kind always have to feel like you're somehow superior to everyone else...in a video game?

Edited February 28, 2012 by Vincire

[Akirator]

Hardcore players already have raids with multiple levels of difficulty. I don't raid and therefore I do not see these places. You hardcore types already see more of the game than I do. What more do you want? Why do you and your kind always have to feel like you're somehow superior to everyone else...in a video game?

 

How is wanting something that challenges us "feeling superior"?

 

And I never said I wanted more than we have now, maybe you should read the entire argument. It started when people said they should take away what we already have because it's somehow unfair to casual players.

[Urdnaxela]

Wow, isn't this interesting.

 

A couple of months ago (before the launch of the game - so on older forums) there was some talk about a system that would give casuals their "own little spot" - which i endorsed a lot. More specific, some form of Falshpoints where people would, if intended, be able to use more than one companion and give companion gear (maybe with a lot of Presence on it or whatever) and maybe some unique awards that would not affect gameplay but be aesthetically nice - like unique mounts or something.

 

Even more than that there were a lot more suggestions that hit the same "l33t" wall of hardcore players not wanting to lose their status - as if they would have been threatened by that since all the systems proposed would have been exclusive of the hardcore players, quite the contrary. Such said players would have had a much easier time completing the content...

 

It even took into consideration all the other players by adding that such content could be done with a group instead of 3 companions.

 

What did the hardcore say? Well, basically - "*** - that's not OP or HM FP so shove it up your arse" and such. Would have such content been easy to develop? Well, a lot more easier than developing more Operations for example since it was base on already developed content and systems (like the choice wheel, the companion system, already we have "Presence" as an attribute and so on and so forth). Would that have benefited a lot more players than the hardcore? Certainly.

 

So what happened? Beside some constructive elements brought into discussion the main counter argument was: "if u wanna feel l33t(er) than you so you have to do HM FP/OP like i do for the best rewards - and thats' the way it should stay" - the reason behind this being that those hardcore players would have wanted to be kings of the hill all the time - of all the "hills" so to say.

 

The discussion went so far as to trying to explain that "best" is a relative term (although an absolute from a linguistic point of view), and while HM OP/FP would offer the best rewards for such content any other system would offer the best rewards for that said content too. For example having drops with loads of Presence on it...

 

So my impression from the OPs is that now the hardcore players feel threatened (and their ego deflated) by the fact that the end game content is accessible to a lot more players simply by being easier - an impression nevertheless.

 

Double standard is your game. You have a system that makes you feel special (through hard work and dedication - which some people would call grind - that i admit to) but nonetheless oppose any other system that would bring at least part of that feeling to other categories through comparable amount of work and dedication - just other type of it. Each time something new is proposed you guys come in here and give the "too much trouble" argument stating that the resources should be concentrated towards developing OP/FP, not such a new system or the "there's no other MMO out there that has this" argument which is even more illogical since of course every other type of end game content was there at the big bang...

 

So there you are - i come now and say to this "well, shove it up your arse" and "WTH, the resources involved into making content that would be experienced only by hardcore players (<5% of the total playerbase) should most definitely be used to develop content that would be realistically accessible to the rest of 95% of the player base". Want to leave? Fine by me - can i get the gear? /irony

 

Beside the soar taste i get from all of this "epeen" attitude and how disgusted i am over such pathetic double standard coming from the hardcore players i will say that there is quite a lack of end game content. Nevertheless, right now, i would very much like to see a system that would benefit more players, since the current end game, simple as it is, is restricted to so few (from my point of view) yet so many (from a hardcore perspective) even if only because of a lack of better tools to find a group.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Urdnaxela

[Khaylani]

This has happened in every mmorpg which has been released since World of Warcraft, and no matter how unique or close to WoW the game is the "hardcore" come out and start attacking the game in the forums. It's always something that's "not catered for the hardcore community" and which will make them leave the game. Here you complain that the raids are too easy, while (more than likely the same) people complained that Age of Conan was "too grindy" and the raids were too hard, Rift was too easy, STO was retarded, Aion/WAR was too much of a grind etc etc.

 

The conclusion I've come to is that the compaints aren't so much about what they've done "wrong", but that the game isn't World of Warcraft, because they always go back there no matter how "crappy" the post WoW has become...

 

As long as Blizzard can do no wrong everyone else will fail in this group's eyes, no matter what they do...

 

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[Akirator]

Wow, isn't this interesting.

 

...

 

Well from I was able to gather from all that, I think that system would have been awesome and they totally should have done it.

 

Also the more I read on here, the more I'm starting to think we have entirely different definitions of hardcore players. My "hardcore", of which I am a member, is simply somebody who just wants a nice hard challenging game, nothing more. I'm taking your definition of "hardcore" as people who are like "I can do raidz and you can't, I'm so awesome!".

 

I call those people jerks, and they are most definitely not the ones I'm talking about.

[Tommyjc]

I actually have to agree, this game has gotten excessively boring, and is down to dailies/weeklies. I consider Nightmare raids as a weekly. They're just so freakin easy. We've lost half our guild, replaced them, lost more, replaced them, it's getting tiring. Playing a game with no difficulty is pure boring. I can't understand why people love repitition so much, that it's come to this. I'll give 1.2 a shot, but if it's the same difficulty, I'll just have to just do rated bg's or quit if they don't bother balancing.

[Bladedakoda]

If you don't feel the need to counter my argument, then why are you even talking to me? It might be different if the "facts" you gave had anything to do with my argument, but nerfing one boss because they overtuned it has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

 

And again, the ban you're talking about is because Paragon wanted to gear faster, it had nothing to do with them needing to do that to actually progress in content.

 

As far making everything harder that's entirely the devs fault and not what is being asked for by the group I'm referring to.

 

You are talking about the dragon soul raid........Paragon were also exploiting the Sinestra fight.

 

Ensidia were BANNED because of using bugged Saronite Bombs on LK25HC.

 

There were nerfs across the board, Normal and HM in FL's when they started seeing subs drop.

 

As for it being the devs fault that we can both agree on.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Bladedakoda

[Akirator]

You are talking about the dragon soul raid........Paragon were also exploiting the Sinestra fight.

 

Ensidia were BANNED because of using bugged Saronite Bombs on LK25HC.

 

There were nerfs across the board, Normal and HM in FL's when they started seeing subs drop.

 

As for it being the devs fault that we can both agree on.

 

Ahhh, ok. Yea those bans happened, you just confused me. You start talking about firelands and them having to nerf HM Rag25 because even most hardcore guilds couldn't it, then you go onto to say that paragon had to exploit the fight to beat it. How was I supposed to know that you weren't talking about Rag anymore?

 

The Sinestra thing I always found suspicious considering Zarhym admitted they were watching that fight in realtime and apparently didnt realize they were exploiting until a few days later.

[amnie]

self-proclaimed hardcore-gamer will never accept that they are a vast minority (:

[Palenen]

a bit on the fence for I have seen both sides but what remains is liking a challenge. However hard it may be, when it requires to do something once as the single goal, that's the challenge.

 

The hard factor can be maintained in so many different ways. Puzzles, multiple boss mobs to drop a item to move forward, Final boss drop. Having to do this whole sequence multiple times to get that said item mutilple-times for that other item, etc. It's just one example. However, many casuals may only see this once. Once the puzzles are figure out, once the paths are known, how to counter the boss's, once the gear is attained, it becomes trivial therefore the 'give us more' posts come out.

 

Perhaps warzone commendations can be spread out into the 4-man Heroics created on planet's where-as everyone can attain them. Just a crossing thought. I really don't care everything being thrown on a vendor for credits. After all, I am under 30k and lvl 40.

[TKMaster]

Its less than 10 % actually. Community drives MMOs - Hardcore players create the communities.

 

edit: If you are a casual player, what are you going to do once you are fully raid/pvp geared ? Because even casuals can do that in a week or two here....

 

For the 10% they do, they completley alienate and discurage the rest of a playerbase with thier attitudes.

[Mephismo]

I agree that this game needs something unique for the "hardcore" crowd to keep them coming back. There's no reason not to have this, and it really doesn't affect the non-hardcores gameplay in any way.

 

That being said, I despise the word "epeen" and the mentality it implies.

 

 

 

Surely it's content that is likely to keep them coming back !

There is no real need to keep subscribed if you have completed everything in the game.

[Arkerus]

I'm a casual player.

 

I agree that gear is far too easy to get. There's no incentive for me to run HM because I don't need the gear.

 

You don't need any gear. Its a video game.

 

 

5-10% of the playerbase ever sees a raid (this is from the WoW devs). I am not that concerned about it right now. More content is coming. If you beat everything already and have full battlemaster, you need to go outside.

 

If bioware just up and left, then we would have an issue. We know more content is coming.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Arkerus

[Vincire]

So the hardcore minority is not playing anymore while the casual majority is enjoying the game?

 

And they will be the first to jump all over requests for casual non- raid endgame alternatives and expect us to be happy with our six dailies.

[TKMaster]

Well from I was able to gather from all that, I think that system would have been awesome and they totally should have done it.

 

Also the more I read on here, the more I'm starting to think we have entirely different definitions of hardcore players. My "hardcore", of which I am a member, is simply somebody who just wants a nice hard challenging game, nothing more. I'm taking your definition of "hardcore" as people who are like "I can do raidz and you can't, I'm so awesome!".

 

I call those people jerks, and they are most definitely not the ones I'm talking about.

 

And they call you a noob.

 

You are in a teeny tiny minority sir. Good for you for not letting video game acomplishments go to your head.

[Zilliztra]

I completely and utterly agree. The only qualm that I have with SW:TOR is that it lacks any means of hardcore grinding with a substantive reward.

 

Exacly. I have canceled my sub, and 'might' come back if they add this.

 

I will not pay for a game that only lets me roll alts or play piss easy content.

 

There is the issue: The so called "hardcore players" just goes though the content faster than the "softcore players". This means that in a few months the softcore people will come to the EXACT same conclusion.

 

But usually people are to .... to see this.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Zilliztra

[Lord_Theodorus]

The problem is that you nedd some challenging content because there are those players out ther that want a challenge.... without challenge its just boring grind to get the gear... with challenge you are proud to get the gear and yes ok you want to show it to everyone but al little show-off is ok....

 

Hardcore Players want a challenge.... some want to show-off with the gear on the cantina only ... some like it to puzzle around to show-off with a guide that everybody reads to master the challenge...or they want to be king of the hill....

 

it's good that there are hardcore players for the community and it's good to have a challenge for everyone....

 

WOW was too hard in some way but i remember some raids who made mee proud off my guildies in "classic" WOW (T1-T2) more challenge will give to community better endgame content.... no challenge and TOR will not even get enough paid accounts to survive....

 

TOR has a good story but in endgame you need challenge... even 8 storyline quests will be done some day give us both.... story and challenge...