Orange Gear, Epic Loot and all the Shouting

[justregularjoe]

Except the hardcore raider will additionally have to craft an obscene amount of orange items for each slot in order to get a Mastercraft procc, which translates into +28 to whatever stat he desires. Per item slot.

 

Raiders will have to put alot more effort into gearing than casuals, on top of actually doing the raiding.

 

 

 

Not true, since people have cleared Nightmare mode in Tionese/Columi gear.

 

If you assume BW knows how to balance encounters then...well....don't know what to tell you.

 

Hardcore raiders will NOT need to do that...it is just an option. Besides, that is what hardcore players LIKE to do (min/max).

 

What is your argument about, anyway ?

[Samborino]

Not compeltly a bad idea, but good looking gear could drop as well. It may seem silly to you but there are a lot of people who would enjoy looking their own particular way instead of how raid gear defines how they must look.

 

Otherwise every raid become a formal dance, every PVP match becomes a buisness work day. C'mon guys, embrace casuall fridays

 

Okay but wouldnt it be a better idea to have a system that is something like this:

 

Have epic armoring WITH SET BONUS's drop off of each boss, or maybe you could also buy these epic armorings from commendations. But keep epic loot drops from raids and flashpoints the way they are, with only mods and enhancements being moddable.

 

It just gives bioware an excuse to be lazy with their loot tables and keep it the way it currently is. Think about how loot works in PVE end game right now. HM Fp's drop the same loot as normal ops and some of the same loot from HM Ops as well. Commendations vendors als give you that exact same loot. 16 man raids also give you the same loot as 8 man raids(which is also the same loot you get from comm vendors and HM FPS), and nightmare mode gives the same loot as hard mode Ops.

 

Doesnt that sound really lazy to you, this new system gives them an excuse to just keep on doing that

[Matte_Black]

The only thing I don't like about it is the way augment slots are handled.

 

It sucks that you're actually FORCED to opt into the system due to needing the open aug slot. There should be some npc that will add an aug slot to an item for a high price (or crafted items that add an aug slot to an item that take expensive mats, either is fine with me).

 

If it was relatively expensive to do, it'd still be desirable to grab the moddable orange items from crafters instead but at least if you wanted to have the look of your original gear you could do so.

 

Forced? If you feel like this change is "forcing" you, you could probably use the extra bit of inconvenience introduced into your life.

[kedobanfey]

Okay but wouldnt it be a better idea to have a system that is something like this:

 

Have epic armoring WITH SET BONUS's drop off of each boss, or maybe you could also buy these epic armorings from commendations. But keep epic loot drops from raids and flashpoints the way they are, with only mods and enhancements being moddable.

 

It just gives bioware an excuse to be lazy with their loot tables and keep it the way it currently is. Think about how loot works in PVE end game right now. HM Fp's drop the same loot as normal ops and some of the same loot from HM Ops as well. Commendations vendors als give you that exact same loot. 16 man raids also give you the same loot as 8 man raids(which is also the same loot you get from comm vendors and HM FPS), and nightmare mode gives the same loot as hard mode Ops.

 

Doesnt that sound really lazy to you, this new system gives them an excuse to just keep on doing that

 

So after all this, leave things the way they are? Change nothing? Then it really does become WoW with another skin. The exciting thing was that it was going to be something different. Try something different. But then it's just too far from the famliar so don't bother changing it?

[AJediKnight]

There are a dozen differen types of orange type gear appearnces so there will not likely be any kind clones wandering about. Much less so than anything you'd see at the high end today anyway. I can agree that the extra audment slot could be something left out since it makes that particualr kind of orange gear nearly mandatory. However just because there's this possible flaw doesn't mean the idea as a whole needs to be shut down as most hard core people seem to be trying to do.

 

I think you fail to understand how the new system will work. Because the "critted" crafted orange gear will be the only gear out there with 4 slots, it will be the only thing people are wearing. There are only a handful of craftable orange "looks" per class; probably on the order of 2-3. Additionally, a lot of this gear clashes with each other, so expect to see people running around in mismatched clown costumes simply because that's the best gear.

 

Bioware needs to remove the critted slot so that dropped oranges are just as good as crafted ones. Then you'd see the system finally fleshed out the way it was intended. As it stands now, this represents one step to the side, and one giant leap backwards. I wish these people actually knew something about what their customers want, or how to design games for that matter.

Edited February 28, 2012 by AJediKnight

[Samborino]

So after all this, leave things the way they are? Change nothing? Then it really does become WoW with another skin. The exciting thing was that it was going to be something different. Try something different. But then it's just too far from the famliar so don't bother changing it?

 

I didnt say keep things the way they are. I do agree that orange gear should be viable at end game , i just think its being implemented poorly.

 

If they made Armoring mods with set bonus's attached to them that dropped off of raid bosses or maybe that you could buy from commendations (like i suggested above) it would make alot more sense. It also wouldnt give them an excuse to be lazy about the new epic loot they put in. If they go ahead with the plan and just make epic loot a vassal for mods that is going to be put in orange gear anyways then what is the point.

 

End game progression in PVE in most mmo's (including this one) happens solely through gear, if they just make it about mods (that have nothing unique about them) to stick into existing armor that is already in the game , it takes away alot of that progression. Ill explain why, orange gear at the moment has nothing rare about it really there is no "rare drop" orange gear that you can get off of high level bosses that are a challenge or anything. Mods on the other hand have nothing unique about them, they dont make your gear look any different they are just stats to put into something, by taking this away there is a disconnect in gear progression. You put mods that arent unique into gear that isnt a challenge to get, dont you see how that could be a problem? They need to add rare drops, unique armor , weapons , relics that arent part of sets (there isnt any armor drops in end game PVE that arent part of a set, there is essentially 4 sets at the moment, tier gear, exotech, xenotech, energized. That is unnacceptable in my opinnion)

Edited February 28, 2012 by Samborino

[Mephane]

And then the casuals will complain that it takes to much effort to get the augment slots, and coming crying on the forums because they have to work to get the same things that other people work to get.

 

The problem is not the effort. The problem will be

 

a) The absurd prices these critted crafted orange items will be paid for (1million+) because raider and generally min-maxers want them for their BiS equipment, and in that regard BiS trumps everything.

 

b) Existing purple and orange items from quest rewards, fp/op drops, vendors etc will be obsolete for anyone trying to get BiS gear, nullifying like half of the visual appearance choices available, which brings us back to square one - the need to equip only certain specific items instead of the ones we prefer the look most of.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Mephane

[Dan_McMan]

It boggles the mind how many people rail against more customization options in an MMO, a genre that centers, in part, around ownership and authorship over a player's character.

 

I LOVE the idea of Modifiable gear becoming more prevalent and accessible at all levels. It will allow players to have more control over their character's appearance - that's all... and that's a good thing in my book.

 

The only argument I see being a real problem with removable base-mods is that Cybertech crafters will be put out of work. Hopefully there is something planned for Cybertech that will make it viable after 1.2.

[Samborino]

There are a dozen differen types of orange type gear appearnces so there will not likely be any kind clones wandering about. Much less so than anything you'd see at the high end today anyway. I can agree that the extra audment slot could be something left out since it makes that particualr kind of orange gear nearly mandatory. However just because there's this possible flaw doesn't mean the idea as a whole needs to be shut down as most hard core people seem to be trying to do.

 

I just think they could have gone about it better. Right now in Hard mode operations their are level 58 mods that drop if they say kept that system and added in an armoring drop that maybe you could get from commendations as well as from raiding, this armoring drop would have a tier set bonus, by doing this they arent making end game drops just a container for mods and they are giving people the option to wear any orange gear they would like throughout the game by obtaining these armorings from a few different methods.

 

It just seems like the current method bioware is going to implement will give them the excuse to continue making an abysmally low amount of new gear per new raid/ flashpoint / commendation vendor like they have currently done. I wanted that to change.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Samborino

[Mephane]

It boggles the mind how many people rail against more customization options in an MMO, a genre that centers, in part, around ownership and authorship over a player's character.

 

I LOVE the idea of Modifiable gear becoming more prevalent and accessible at all levels. It will allow players to have more control over their character's appearance - that's all... and that's a good thing in my book.

 

What people are mainly criticising is the fact that these changes do not give us enough options - anything not crit-crafted (which includes drops, quest rewards etc) will be , though fully moddable, inferior to crit-crafted orange stuff.

 

It's like they open up all these options just to take away half of them again that very instant.

[Ka-tel]

I think you fail to understand how the new system will work. Because the "critted" crafted orange gear will be the only gear out there with 4 slots, it will be the only thing people are wearing. There are only a handful of craftable orange "looks" per class; probably on the order of 2-3. Additionally, a lot of this gear clashes with each other, so expect to see people running around in mismatched clown costumes simply because that's the best gear.

 

Bioware needs to remove the critted slot so that dropped oranges are just as good as crafted ones. Then you'd see the system finally fleshed out the way it was intended. As it stands now, this represents one step to the side, and one giant leap backwards. I wish these people actually knew something about what their customers want, or how to design games for that matter.

 

This is incorrect, because all purples will be moddable as well. They will be just as orange are now. They have and will continue to have the possibility of having an augment slot upon crafting.

[ugdug]

This whole argument is here because in End Game most crafting is pointless.

 

Let anyone stick any mods in any orange, RPers rejoice you have your look and with armour set bonus so your not gimped.

 

Let Armourmech and Synthweavers stick one augement slot on one peice of armour, hurray those crafters have a perk and make made with Biometric Alloys so non raiders can make them like the Biochems can do

 

Do the same with Artificers and Armstech on their guns.

 

All Crafters get relevant in end game

RPers get their dreams of matching gear

Noone gets forced into wearing BiS gear.

 

Problem solved....next.

[Shinybum]

This is incorrect, because all purples will be moddable as well. They will be just as orange are now. They have and will continue to have the possibility of having an augment slot upon crafting.

 

If purple raid drops will be moddable in the same way that orange pieces are now, why not just add an augment slot to them by default? This would make them equivalent to crit-crafted orange, and thus continue their BiS status while giving raiders the option to get other looks if they so wish. Casuals who don't feel the need for an aug slot can keep on using regular oranges while perhaps aspiring to crit-craft as the next part of their own gear progression.

 

Extra market for crafters, high-end gear continuity for raiders, aspiration for casuals who want to gear up and start raiding themselves.

[Tricky-Ha]

I fully expect the next stages of Update Patch 1.2.1-1.2.5 to be BioWare adjusting the price to remove end level gear mods. 1st it'll be like 1m credits for remove a lvl 50 mod & everyone will hate it & BioWare will be confused cause they know hardly anything about MMO players. Then they'll whisper something to some interviewer on some other website that BioWare has heard the outcry of the prices of end level gear mod removal, so they're adjusting it 25% lower on the upcoming 1.2.1 test patch.

 

At this point it'll still cost too much to remove max level mods but something like 20% of the playerbase that have loads of credits cause they've been farming dailies non-stop have paid the high fees, while the armormech & snythweaver crafters are selling every single piece of crit-crafted augment orange gear no lower than 300k credits because BioWare set that as the price range for orange crit-crafted augmented gear on the GTN.

 

Update patch 1.2.3 lowers the price to remove mods too far to the other spectrum, now it's so cheap to remove level 50 mods it only costs 1000 credits or less, but hardly anyone can afford to buy new crafted orange augmented gear from crafters cause it still costs too much in materials & RNG to make one of these items, that crafters cannot sell even the ugliest pieces for less than 250k credits. Also RAGE ON THE FORUMS cause players that used to be rich ingame are now screaming at BioWare & want refunds on all their wasted credits cause they now can't afford to buy the new orange augment crafted items off the GTN.

 

Then it's the middle of April & update patch 1.2.4 comes along & I complain on the forums that BioWare isn't doing a very good job with customizable gear. Biodrone's will hate on me thread, RP'ers & similar minded players missing out on customization in TOR will agree with me & then unexpectedly & without warning colormatch gets turned off this patch again because it's been intermittently blanking out full armor color & texture patterns for the past 3 weeks & the playerbase is mad.

 

Y'know...worst case scenario or is it just another day for BioWare & EA?

Edited February 29, 2012 by Tricky-Ha

[Monoth]

Make all Raid gear drops have a chance to have a empty aug slot in it.... now everyone has a chance of getting a aug slot regardless if it's crafted gear or raid gear dropped in the dungeons.... problem solved.. Edited February 29, 2012 by Monoth

[Monoth]

I didnt say keep things the way they are. I do agree that orange gear should be viable at end game , i just think its being implemented poorly.

 

If they made Armoring mods with set bonus's attached to them that dropped off of raid bosses or maybe that you could buy from commendations (like i suggested above) it would make alot more sense. It also wouldnt give them an excuse to be lazy about the new epic loot they put in. If they go ahead with the plan and just make epic loot a vassal for mods that is going to be put in orange gear anyways then what is the point.

 

End game progression in PVE in most mmo's (including this one) happens solely through gear, if they just make it about mods (that have nothing unique about them) to stick into existing armor that is already in the game , it takes away alot of that progression. Ill explain why, orange gear at the moment has nothing rare about it really there is no "rare drop" orange gear that you can get off of high level bosses that are a challenge or anything. Mods on the other hand have nothing unique about them, they dont make your gear look any different they are just stats to put into something, by taking this away there is a disconnect in gear progression. You put mods that arent unique into gear that isnt a challenge to get, dont you see how that could be a problem? They need to add rare drops, unique armor , weapons , relics that arent part of sets (there isnt any armor drops in end game PVE that arent part of a set, there is essentially 4 sets at the moment, tier gear, exotech, xenotech, energized. That is unnacceptable in my opinnion)

 

 

So mods with raid stats are worthless because it doesn't change the way you look? thats a lame argument. In SWG you had to craft all your gear and go kill boss mobs who dropped the rare mats you needed to create your gear, IMO that system worked great....

 

Plus add the fact that in SWTOR most raid gear looks really bad...

 

Look the raid gear is NOT going anywhere it will still drop in raid dungeons so if you want that particular look it's still there for you to wear and get..... but wanting to force people to wear it instead of letting them take the mods out and put it in other orange gear is petty and selfish not to mention limits customization in the game...

 

Bottom Line "HOW DOES IT EFFECT YOUR GAMING EXPERICE?!?!?!" It's doesn't..... whats up with all these control freaks who want to dictate what other people do in the game... unbelievable..

[VanorDM]

There are only a handful of craftable orange "looks" per class; probably on the order of 2-3.

 

Bioware has said that they plan on including more items in 1.2. So assuming that there will be only 2-3 is kinda silly, considering they've already said they were adding more in.

[ferroz]

The complaints are because when you have customizable gear that has an extra slot, it now becomes best in slot.

You mean like my Rakata wrist and belt, which each have an augment slot?

 

 

With 1.2 instead of level 50s looking like clones, people of all levels will be wearing one of three sets of armor because it's customizable gear with an augment slot and you can get the most out of your char with that gear. Seeing as people of all levels will be wearing it, this game will truly become clone wars.

Um. I can make 3 sets of leggings chest under level 20. I think I've got another 4 chest pieces above level 20 for light armor one less legging, and a bit less for medium/heavy. I've got 4 stupid hats for light armor, and a headband (the level 19 one). I've got goggles, multiple headbands, and a Jordi Laforge visor for heavy armor.

 

There are more than 3 sets, especially for the classes that can wear both synthweaving and armormech pieces.

 

 

Hell, I can even make a pair of PANTS for light armor wearers. I'm going to make loads of cash selling those with augment slots.

 

Bioware has said that they plan on including more items in 1.2. So assuming that there will be only 2-3 is kinda silly, considering they've already said they were adding more in.

especially since there are more than that now... Edited February 29, 2012 by ferroz

[cbowsin]

It would be nice to be able to take the augment slot off of one piece of gear and put it on another piece of gear. It would still needed to be crit on crafting so it doesn't have an impact on crafters. But then I could obtain the slot and put it on Social or Commendation gear to obtain that special look I was hoping to get.

 

[ferroz]

while the armormech & snythweaver crafters are selling every single piece of crit-crafted augment orange gear no lower than 300k credits because BioWare set that as the price range for orange crit-crafted augmented gear on the GTN.

I'm not putting any of it up cheaper than a 1mil credits, then up like a kite, whatever the traffic will bear. Credits are virtually worthless, and incredibly simple to earn. Edited February 29, 2012 by ferroz

[ManiacalShen]

I agree with a bunch of you. Either ditch the stupid augment slot entirely or make it so a crafter can put an augment slot on any hat/chest/legs/boots.

 

Maybe we Cybertechs could do an enchant-sort of thing on a piece of gear via trade-window to "install" the augment slot, or perhaps there could be something tough to craft that we could sell on the GTN. Either way, it has to require skill level 400.

 

Cybertech's the logical choice for this, right? We make armoring and mods, after all. Biochem's already useful at 50, and upping the viability of oranges will help the synthweavers, armortechs, and armsmechs remain relevant at the highest levels. Improvements for everyone!

[Tricky-Ha]

I'm not putting any of it up cheaper than a 1mil credits, then up like a kite, whatever the traffic will bear. Credits are virtually worthless, and incredibly simple to earn.

 

Then WE are just not going to buy your crafted gear, man, cause someone who just doesn't care will severely undercut your prices. That'll just be the casual crafters making quick sells here & there. Hardcore crafters like you that think everyone is always rich enough to spend up to a million credits on 1 piece of gear, not getting my business.

 

Credits are easy to earn in this game, that's if you've got max leveled characters doing multiple dailies on 7+ characters every day. I too much of a casual to play the game that much so my 2 characters are nowhere's near that rich.

 

I'm just saying, even for a hypothetical piece of crafted gear, 1 million credits per is too much.

 

A pay-to-use Appearance Tab, that's sorta what this orange customizable gear system is like, sorta like a pay-to-use toilet. I hope it ends up not working so eventually it gets replaced with just a normal appearance tab. That's all I want is an a-tab & color dyes. TOR's orange gear sucks in comparison to a-tabs & I'm pretty sure the colormatch system will suck in comparison to armor dyes.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Tricky-Ha

[maxetius]

Orange gear is awesome. More of it, and more craftable orange gear only helps the game. I will happily shell out for some crafted by XXX orange gear on the GTN. Gotta support those crafters, after all.

 

Of course, 'i price it exporbitantly because i can' is fail, in which case i'd rather level crafting myself and undercut the hell out of those people... which I have, in fact done. [Magenta Crystals]

 

Besides, I got sick of the 'cylon in a dress' Sith Inquisitor look really really fast.

Edited February 29, 2012 by maxetius

[wolveroach]

Make the Crit Crafted gear Bind on Pickup and then only the crafters will have that gear.