Why the Darkside Vastly more powerful than The Light

[skarlson]

Defeat by a Jedi does not make Jedi more powerful. The war between the Jedi and Dark Jedi that originally led to the Sith interbreeding with the Dark Jedi is a prime example. The Jedi outnumbered the Dark Jedi which is why the eventually won. However, it took them a pretty long time to do so. The Sith almost conquered the Republic during the great hyperspace war as well due to the darkside. They lost because of betrayal. The Sith were wiped out as a result, an order to which the Jedi agreed which is not something they would normally do. Luke beat the Emperor because Vader betrayed him.

 

Revan was betrayed by Malek. I've heard it said a Sith Lord will almost always be superior to any Jedi, it is the nature of the Sith themselves which leads to their inevitable defeat. That is the precise reason Bane instituted the rule of two which was an attempt to get around that self destruction. It worked for quite awhile and led to the near destruction of the Jedi order. Only...betrayal beat him out in the end. In the EU it was only a surprise visit by a lightside force ghost that ultimately prevented him from resurrecting himself yet again.

[ErikModi]

Yoda states in the novel and the movie, "Failed I have."

 

And Leland Chee has stated Yoda lost.

 

 

Plus the novelization even depicts Yoda struggling to keep up with Sidious's lightning. Sidious was toying with him the entire fight.

 

Not even. Yoda was struggling, sure, but so was Palpatine.

 

And the WHOLE POINT of Yoda saying "Failed, I have" is because he's realized that this formation of Jedi just doesn't have what it takes to destroy the Sith. What is needed is a new Jedi. That Jedi is Luke Skywalker, and he destroys the Sith practically by not fighting them.

 

When Luke tries to fight the Sith like an old-school Jedi, saber to saber, things go badly for him. When he tosses his weapon away and take the path of the Light, he creates the break that not only redeems his father but destroys the Sith completely.

 

Win, Jedi.

[Strangiato]

He never made either of them official apprentices until the rule of two allowed for it though.

 

Simply preparing is fine, look at Bane, founder of the Rule of Two, he prepared to replace Zannah with Cognus in Dynasty of Evil, doesn't mean he broke the rule of two.

 

I don't know if it is just me, but I really don't think Sidious gave two ***** about the rule of two lol. All he cared about was being on top, hence the reason he was constantly trying replace his more "powerful" apprentices. Lucky for him some of the Jedi did it for him. Sidious likes and cares only about himself.

[Lastchylde]

You people are totally missing the point. Dark and Light are 2 pieces of a whole, like the Ying and Yang. Lucas centered a lot of his Force lore around the eastern philosophy with regard to BALANCE. Which in essence is what the entire Star Wars saga is about. Anikan/Vader brought balance to the Force by helping destroy all but 2 Jedi. He and the Emperor were the last 2 Sith. In the end who wins? Vader kills everyone from the old ways (cept Yoda who dies of old age) leaving just Luke, who let's face it... HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE IS DOING! How could he though, he cut his training short. So balance is restored... out of ignorance.

 

Now the only reason the dark side seems stronger in the game is because the developers happen to be lame sadistic nerds who think its "ubber cool" to dress up in black leather and pretend to be "evil bad-asses" wielding red glow sticks. Even a half wit could see that there is a clear cut biased opinion just by taking look at the production values of game with regard to the Imperial side (bad guys) verses the Republic (goodie two shoes). Even in the commercials/trailers they are so proud of how many Sith characters have been created. So (in game) is the dark side stronger? By the sheer number of Sith/Imps and red lightsaber toting players out there, the majority of you sheep agree with their philosophy. Thus creating a self fulfilling prophecy making the darkside stronger. Just keep thinking you're cool guys. That's all that matters, right?

[BrandonSM]

I favor the Sith, but going by the movie, Sidious looked pretty genuinely surprised & concerned at how Yoda kept up with him, especially when he repulsed his lightning.

 

Hmm? He was laughing throughout the entire fight.

[BrandonSM]

Not even. Yoda was struggling, sure, but so was Palpatine.

 

.

No he wasn't.

 

"In the lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force.

Finally he saw the truth.

This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known...

 

just-

didnt-

have it.

He'd never had it.

 

 

Page 430

 

"The shadow could feel how much it cost the little green freak to bend back his lightnings into the cage of energy that enclosed them both; the creature had reached the limits of his strength. The shadow released its power for an instant, long enough to only whirl away through the air and alight upon one of the delegation pods as it flew past, and the creature leapt to follow-

Half a second too slow.

The shadow unleashed its lightning while the creature was still in the air, and the little green freak took its full power. The shock blasted him backward to crash against the podium and he fell."

 

 

^Where do you see Palpatine struggling?

Edited February 29, 2012 by BrandonSM

[Girdeux]

No he wasn't.

 

"In the lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force.

Finally he saw the truth.

This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known...

 

just-

didnt-

have it.

He'd never had it.

 

 

Page 430

 

"The shadow could feel how much it cost the little green freak to bend back his lightnings into the cage of energy that enclosed them both; the creature had reached the limits of his strength. The shadow released its power for an instant, long enough to only whirl away through the air and alight upon one of the delegation pods as it flew past, and the creature leapt to follow-

Half a second too slow.

The shadow unleashed its lightning while the creature was still in the air, and the little green freak took its full power. The shock blasted him backward to crash against the podium and he fell."

 

 

^Where do you see Palpatine struggling?

 

To be fair Lucas stated that Yoda could compete with Sidious..Which means Sidious wasnt really toying. The novelization is wrong in alot of aspects because scenes were changed, and with it so did Lucas's word

Edited February 29, 2012 by Girdeux

[BrandonSM]

To be fair Lucas stated that Yoda could compete with Sidious..Which means Sidious wasnt really toying. The novelization is wrong in alot of aspects because scenes were changed, and with it so did Lucas's word

 

Give me a source to back up Lucas saying that.

[Girdeux]

Give me a source to back up Lucas saying that.

 

"You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor," Lucas says. "If Anakin hadn't got all beat up, he could've beat the Emperor."

-George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 204

 

So the novel is unfortunately wrong in that regard

Edited February 29, 2012 by Girdeux

[BrandonSM]

"You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor," Lucas says. "If Anakin hadn't got all beat up, he could've beat the Emperor."

-George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 204

 

Ok.

 

 

Being able to compete with the Emperor doesn't mean you can be a big challenge for him.

 

Lucas authorized and overviewed the novelization and Leland Chee stated Yoda was no match for Sidious.

[Girdeux]

Ok.

 

 

Being able to compete with the Emperor doesn't mean you can be a big challenge for him.

 

Lucas authorized and overviewed the novelization and Leland Chee stated Yoda was no match for Sidious.

 

Before the scenes were changed. Lets see the Chee quote, even then it doesnt matter what he says, Lucas > Chee.. And We know for a fact that Lucas also said Windu beat Sidious fair and square and Sidious was unable to kill him with Lightning. The novel states something totally different. Yoda challenged Sidious fair and square too, deal with it.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Girdeux

[a_sprague]

Simple answer:

 

Absolute power destroys absolutely.

 

Essentially, you could argue that the Dark Side is stronger, in the sense that it has more raw power to it.

 

However, those of great power will always destroy themselves.

 

Just look at people like Hitler, who had amassed a huge army, was taking the entire world to war, and lost because his overconfidence in his power.

 

The Light Side of the Force isn't as strong, as it (most likely) doesn't project as much power (emotions are powerful things), but harmony will always reign over chaos.

[BrandonSM]

Before the scenes were changed. Lets see the Chee quote, even then it doesnt matter what he says, Lucas > Chee.. And We know for a fact that Lucas also said Windu beat Sidious fair and square and Sidious was unable to kill him with Lightning. The novel states something totally different. Yoda challenged Sidious fair and square too, deal with it.

 

 

 

Essential Chrono and I believe he stated something similar to it on his blog as well:

 

"Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chambers, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two entered into a spectacular duel -- a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides. The Emperor proved too powerful to defeat. Though Yoda held his own for much of the duel, in the end, the Sith bested him. He realized that directly confronting the Sith would be doomed to failure. Defeated, Yoda slinked away into the shadows of the Senate chamber's cavernous depths, leaping into a waiting getaway speeder piloted by Bail Organa."

 

And Chee's word is equal to Lucas's. Hell I'd like to think his word is greater than Lucas's but that would be too much. Leland Chee is the overseer of all continuity and the keeper of the Holocron.

[Girdeux]

Essential Chrono and I believe he stated something similar to it on his blog as well:

 

"Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chambers, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two entered into a spectacular duel -- a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides. The Emperor proved too powerful to defeat. Though Yoda held his own for much of the duel, in the end, the Sith bested him. He realized that directly confronting the Sith would be doomed to failure. Defeated, Yoda slinked away into the shadows of the Senate chamber's cavernous depths, leaping into a waiting getaway speeder piloted by Bail Organa."

 

And Chee's word is equal to Lucas's. Hell I'd like to think his word is greater than Lucas's but that would be too much. Leland Chee is the overseer of all continuity and the keeper of the Holocron.

 

Chees word doesnt equal Lucas's. If you even think that then you lost the dicussion. Fact is Sidious isnt some uber sith that had no equal.

[BrandonSM]

Chees word doesnt equal Lucas's. If you even think that then you lost the dicussion. Fact is Sidious isnt some uber sith that had no equal.

 

You do know that Lucas said Sidious is the most powerful Sith right?

[Girdeux]

You do know that Lucas said Sidious is the most powerful Sith right?

 

Of course. But your pretty much stating Sidious couldnt be beaten or equalled by any jedi apart from Luke. Fact is Windu did it, Anakin could of and Yoda depending on the circumstances. ALL confirmed by Lucas to be able to compete with the Emperor.

[BrandonSM]

Of course. But your pretty much stating Sidious couldnt be beaten or equalled by any jedi apart from Luke. Fact is Windu did it, Anakin could of and Yoda depending on the circumstances. ALL confirmed by Lucas to be able to compete with the Emperor.

 

Windu beat him in a duel, he wouldn't stand a chance in a force battle. Anakin couldn't have, only if he was at full potential or very close to it.

[Girdeux]

Windu beat him in a duel, he wouldn't stand a chance in a force battle. Anakin couldn't have, only if he was at full potential or very close to it.

 

He wouldnt have a chance in a force battle? Lucas stated in the same sentence that Sidious was trying to kill Windu with force lightning and couldnt. Which is why he feigned weakness after that to get Anakin over because he couldnt kill Windu himself.

[LordOfMassacre]

wrong just wrong, could u imagine if the Emperor had destroyed Mace head on? Anakin would have never fell and the Empire would have never came to be.

 

The fact is the Emperor planned the entire ordeal as he always had, its evident in the movie when hes all like oh too weak please dont kill me o master jedi while smilling and then blasting out 10X the lighting while laughing and screaming ULTIMATE POWER!

 

As for the fight with Yoda, sure Yoda holds his own in the begining but who flees the fight? whos thrown down? Who laughs in victory? The Emperor, Darth Sidious Lord of The Sith

 

Sure is there weakness to the Dark Side like arrogance or blind rage? Yes as evident in Darth Mauls and Darth Vaders fall to obi wan. But in Sheer Raw Power?

 

The Dark Side is Supreme,

 

Even the fight between Lord Vader and Obi wan on Mustafar is evident enough, the entire fight is Darth Vader raging and pushing Obi wan without breaking a sweat with Obi wan barely keeping up, he wins by bad judgement and arrogance on the part of Lord Vader but even so Darth Vader then becomes a Storm of sheer hatred and preceeds to slaughter the remaining Jedi and become the scourge of the Jedi Order. ( with only half his body I might add)

 

 

And look at Anakin Skywalker the choosen one, If the Light was stronger why turn to Dark Side of the Force? he was the strongest on the force after all. The fact is only through the Dark Side would he obtain powers beyond what the Light could provide, only through the Dark Side could he rule the galaxy and set in order what he felt was right, only through the Darkside could he become the powerful being, A Dark Lord of the Sith.

[LordOfMassacre]

As for all the people that claim jedi dont deny emotions, look at Anakin Skywalker, he turned to the Dark Side out of love, if the Jedi believe in emotions would he have needed to? He did after all seek advice from Yoda who was basically just let go.

[Girdeux]

wrong just wrong, could u imagine if the Emperor had destroyed Mace head on? Anakin would have never fell and the Empire would have never came to be.

 

The fact is the Emperor planned the entire ordeal as he always had, its evident in the movie when hes all like oh too weak please dont kill me o master jedi while smilling and then blasting out 10X the lighting while laughing and screaming ULTIMATE POWER!

 

Wrong.

 

Lucas: "Ok, well this sequence always started out with Mace overpowering Palpatine and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber.

[ErikModi]

Dude, just admit it. You lose.

 

The Jedi conquer the Sith, the Light conquers the Dark, ergo, Sith are nor more powerful than Jedi, the Dark is not more powerful than the Light. Period. End of story.

 

Yoda didn't have what it took to beat Sidious, but he certainly gave him a run for his money. Even check out a deleted scene in the RotS Blu-Ray, in which SIDIOUS, not Yoda, flees the final fight. Lucas was pretty clearly stating that the two were close to even.

 

What Yoda realized was that, by even engaging Sidious in battle, he had lost. Sidious had planned, plotted, and thought out every aspect of his coup so thoroughly that even if Yoda had killed him, AT BEST the Republic would fall into the hands of another autocrat, AT WORST, it would fragment into hundreds or thousands of warring states torn apart by petty interests and the conflicts Palpatine had fostered in the course of making his power play. In any event, trust and faith in the Jedi had already been completely shattered, and almost no one would trust them in the foreseeable future with trying to hold a government together. And of course, the (two remaining) Jedi would have to try and control the government to stop this very breakup. . . proving to almost everyone exactly what Palpatine had been saying. . . the Jedi are plotting to take over.

 

All of this is a result not of Palpatine's strength in the Dark Side, but his simple ability to plan obscenely long-term. Anyone with sufficient intelligence, foresight, killer instinct, and total amorality could have maneuvered the Jedi into exactly that position without the benefit of any Force power whatsoever (although, there is admittedly room for debate on how big a role Palpatine's Farseeing and the "Shroud of the Dark Side" had to do with things.)

 

So, yeah, Palpatine's a ******, he comes the closest to achieving the ancient dream of a galaxy-spanning Sith Empire. . . and looses it all in less than thirty years. To a kid who wouldn't even be considered a half-trained Padawan by the previous Jedi order. Who had joined a Rebellion half made of of officers and soldiers who defected FROM HIS OWN EMPIRE to try and bring him down. And his death was CELEBRATED ACROSS THE GALAXY.

 

Yeah, some great leader he turned out to be.

[Diamonddug]

What I define as Power are the Unnatural, God like powers that the Sith alone have achived.

The powers of the Sith are not god like. All of their ablities are destuction. The only Sith that I see who possably had God like powers was Plaguis he created Anikin(presumably) but even then it failed. Anikin was suppose to be the most powerful Sith. The force fought back and making him the 2nd most powerful sith and making him the choosen 1 who destroyes the sith.

 

 

 

Darth Nihilious ( Devours entire planets, Absorbs the life force from Jedi Masters and Sith Lords alike with ease, achieving immortality by hiding his essence in his Mask. Is taken down ONLY from exploiting his one weakness love and connection to his apprentice and requiring am entire team to take him down. If the Jedi exile is so powerful why did he/she need Visas to weaken him in order to defeat him? the fact is he/she was incapable alone, Darth Nihilous was far too powerful, he was the Dark Side in True form. A wound in the Force)

First what Nihilous does is not power. "There is no strength in the hunger he possesses… and the will behind his power is a primal thing. And it devours him as he devours others—his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him. He is already dead, it is simply a question of how many he kills before he falls." Quoted from Kreia/Traya. As to why Meetra need others to defeat Nihilious that is because that is the power of the light. No one Jedi is more powerful or less powerful than another (even if they are or aren't). They become more powerful when the unite aganst a common foe.

 

Darth Traya ( a former Jedi Master and Sith Lord whose ambitions were unrivaled, to destroy the Force itself, Master of Revan, Nihilious and Sion her Power was beyond the gifted and ordinary.

 

 

Kreia wanted to take that whole "Jedi are flawed" theme one step further. Besides training her to fight against the True Sith, Kreia used the Exile to show the Jedi the error of their ways. Instead of dismissing them as fools, she gave them a chance to redeem themselves. She wanted to prove to them that it was possibly to survive without a connection to the Force. By accepting that the Exile and all the other Jedi were right to go to war and admitting that the Jedi teachings were fundamentally flawed, the Jedi could prove to Kreia that they weren't beyond saving. When they didn't, she was so disgusted by their hypocrisy and ignorance that she decided to make them physically see what the Exile had to go through: by cutting them off from the Force. The symbolic importance of cutting them off from the Force was to "clear their vision" and make them see the Exile's point of view. That is also the reason why, if you went dark side and had killed all the Jedi by the time you come back to the Academy, Kreia rejects the Exile as yet another of her failed students; If you simply killed the Jedi for their foolishness, you would be no better than the same Jedi who exiled you for disobeying their consul and going to war. She wanted to teach The Exile to not trust or 'fall' for either side of the Force, as both are corrupt and incredibly flawed. The game makes an effort to express this; with the Jedi, the supposedly good guys, willing to kill you at the end and with Vrook, who was their leader, being so incredibly arrogant amongst having other serious character flaws. She explains that Revan knew that neither side of the Force was good enough and that Revan never actually fell to the Darkside, but embraced it to fulfill a purpose of uniting the galaxy under one strong banner in order to protect it from the True Sith. That is what the entire story of the game is about, really; judgment, truth, acceptance, redemption, and the dichotomy of good and evil.

 

 

 

 

Darth Sion ( Murder of untold Jedi, unkillable in battle, resurecting indefinitely through His Sheer Hatred and Pain. He is defeated only by letting go of His pain, NOT through battle.)

Surik told him that he had already been defeated, and she explained that Kreia had only respected those who could let go of the Force, not those like Sion who relied on it. She showed him that the life he had created ,a life of pain, was not Kreia's doing but his own. Sion hated Kriea but also wanted her to still be his master. He wanted her to lay down her life for him the same way she was willing to do for Meetra. He decided he was tired of always being in pain. Emotional and physical. And really who could blame him?

 

 

 

The point being and always seems to be that Sith Lords are vastly more powerful than their Jedi counterpart.

 

 

This is evident in The "Unnatural" powers they possess as well as the temptations Jedi have to fall into their order as well as NEARLY ALWAYS requiring two or more jedi or a team to defeat One Sith Lord.

And anytime there is more than 1 sith lord the other ends up dead. (Plaguis/Sidious, Bane/Zannah, Sidious/Dooku, Sidious/Vader)

 

IS there a Great temptation for a Sith Lord to turn to the Light side of the Force? No but there are ample examples of Jedi being tempted to The Darkside.

Yes the Sith are temptations by the light side. To have freinds, To not be suspious of everyone and everything, to let go of thier pain, to actually have someone who cares about them. Vader and Sion wanted what the light siders had.

 

 

Why? because the Darkside is a Pathway to Power, to unatural abilities, to perfection and to the zenith of ones potential unbinded by weakness or rules.

But to get to that power they must forsake friends, attachments to others , attachments to all life everywhere. They must be hated and hate others, they must destory anyone or anything that may be a distraction or compition to said power. And at no point can they ever relax if they do thats when someone (another sith maybe, or Jedi ) can strike.

 

 

Jedi wins by lucky chance, by having allies or outnumbering HARDLY never a straight up 1 vs 1 Sheer overpowering like Sith Lords are capable of

Compassion togetherness is some of the light sides powers so winning is not by chance it what they use.

 

 

Even The Codes,

 

Limitation like the Jedi Code do not bound a Sith Lord in fact their Ultimate goal is to transcend all Limitation and weakness to achieving Perfection and Ultimate Power to whatever means they desire from a selfish one like devouring worlds to achive immortality to a noble one like Darth Vader to save the ones he loves or Darth Revan to protect the republic or The Wraths to bring order and Justice to the Empire.

except the sith code is unobtainable. Because human beings need others. The Sith code is all about the Sith him or herself. If you listen to the code you no longer care about others and see everyone as holding you back from your goal Unlimited power.

 

 

It should be noted the Sith Code is NOT evil in of itself rather the option of being evil is not restricted, rather the pursuit of ones desire is ultimate and Power the pathway to it.

But the path way to that power is what makes it evil.

 

 

 

Nihilus died to Meetra?

And Madolore and Visas.

 

Just about every Sith Lord has fallen to a Light-Sider/Jedi.

Exept for Bane (who was killed by Zannah) and all the Darth's between Zannah and Sidious (including Plaguis)

 

 

 

The Sith achieve power quicker but fall quicker as well. When have you heard of the Jedi failing because of another Jedi?

Vader/ Obi and Mace, Hoth/Farfalla there are probably others but those are the only one's I can think of off the top of my head. Just saying.

 

 

Just to end things Dark side is not more powerful than the light. (But it's still fun to play dark side )

[rashencyberspeed]

I can easily see why one would be convinced the dark is more powerful. But it isn't. The light is more powerful, it's just that the power of the light is more difficult to achieve. Has anyone else noticed that the sith constantly dominate, but when they fall, it is often due to a single light sided person?

 

That's basically it for me. Most Jedi have difficulty getting the full power of the force. And thus struggle with the sith. But when one Jedi achieves the true power of the force, he cannot be stopped and defeats the sith.

[Akento]

I just have to say.... In terms of power. The Jedi and Sith are both equal.

 

The sith, believe that the darkside will give them "unlimited power." While the jedi believe that the lightside is the road to harmony, and they do not strive for power. Sith fall because of their blind obsession with their own power and how to become even more powerful. The jedi fall because of their faith. They rely too much on their faith in the lightside that they do not try to better themselves to the extent the sith do.

 

I truly say the best tool one can have (Especially in the star wars universe) is the mind.

 

The Emperor (No not this Vitiate fool) I mean the TRUE emperor, Palpatine, was so powerful because he was so intelligent. And cunning. Not to mention he had raw force potential. Yet he was always trying to expand on that power.

 

Yoda was so powerful because he was so wise. And knowledgeable. Yoda had raw force potential as well.(Probably because of his species) But he had more faith in the force than obsession with it.