Why the Darkside Vastly more powerful than The Light

[undeadsithdread]

This is explained in several places in the Sith Warrior story.

 

 

The Emperor's body has been in hiding for a LONG time. The Emperor's spirit possesses vessels and speaks/acts through them; those are called the Voice of the Emperor. Darth Baras had a whole plot to lock one away and replace the true voice with himself, but that body was destroyed, foiling his plan. Then the Jedi Knight meets another Voice later on, and eventually kills it, never understanding the whole "vessel" concept. Still later, the Sith Warrior is notified that another Voice has perished (the one the JK killed) but the Emperor remains, albeit weakened. The Children of the Emperor can still hear his voice though, so even in the JK story there are clues about what really happened.

 

Scourge is either mistaken or lying about his whole prophecy (it's either entirely wrong, or the timing is wrong, or the timing and the jedi involved are wrong). He does drop a clue at the end about sticking around just to make sure everything's really been completed. Why doesn't Scourge understand that killing the Voice doesn't kill the Emperor? Hard to say really; it's possible that the whole "Voice" concept is one that the Emperor started fairly recently. I can't find any references to it before the present, in-game time.

 

Yes, you can claim that the Emperor is "really" dead, and the SW story is full of lies. But then you'd be ignoring a bigger point: the Emperor is literally the main antagonist of the whole game. He's around 1600 years old at this point, having achieved immortality from a ritual that destroyed his entire planet. Now he plans to very literally kill everything in the Galaxy, to achieve yet more power. EVERYONE, from the Empire to the Republic to the Hutts to the killiks in their hives, will have reason to want to destroy him. And, by the wya, destroying him is going to take a LOT more than one character smacking him around a bit.

 

no it don't sith are not god mode beings even the strongest sith lords can be still be killed by blaster if they were shot from back.

 

also the sith emperor himself was not lightsaber duelest either he relayed on his force powers alone to destroy his enemies.

Edited February 28, 2012 by undeadsithdread

[Girdeux]

So defeating two jedis and holding his own with Yoda does not show power? he has to defeat everyone at once???? I said the Darkside is stronger not godmode. Show me a Jedi who defeats two Sith and then duels and holds his own againts one of the strongest Sithlords right after.

 

 

in the Hope SWTOR trailer, Satele charges and kills like 5 sith and holds her own vs Malgus on her way to defeating him... sooooo yea.

 

Also Obi-wan calls Anakin a far greater jedi than he could ever become, then Anakin turns to the darkside and is defeated by Kenobi shortly after.

 

Darth Vader attempted many plots to overthrow the empire using evil tactics, only by surprising him with his redemption to the light side was he able to kill the emperor.

 

Also in KOTOR, I, as Revan, defeated about 100 sith and mopped the floor with Darth Malak.

 

None of the Jedi or Sith from the Kotor/TOR era even compare to their PT counterparts. Revan would get his butt whopped, sorry.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Girdeux

[Aloro]

no it don't sith are not god mode beings even the strongest sith lords can be still be killed by blaster if they were shot from back.

 

also the sith emperor himself was not lightsaber duelest either he relayed on his force powers alone to destroy his enemies.

 

Why did you quote my post? Nothing you said seems to be a response to anything I said.

[Darth_Lago]

Neither Side is more powerful, they are both the same. It's just different types of power. Comparing a fight between a Sith and a Jedi is not the way to decide it either. That is not Light vs Dark, that is only One Jedi versus One Sith. If it's a more powerful Jedi it makes it look like the light is stronger. If it's a more powerful Sith it makes it look like the Darkside is stronger.

 

The only real way to compare would be a light side version and a Dark side version of the same person fighting it off. But even then it couldn't be a light version of say Luke Skywalker versus a Luke Skywalker that had fallen to the Dark side because KNOWLEDGE is power. A version of Luke that had known both the light and Dark would be able to overcome a version that had only known one side (It wouldn't matter if it was light or Dark) because he would understand the Force as a whole better than the other could ever do.

[Lastage]

Wookiepedia says...

 

During his battle with Onimi,Solo experienced a moment of oneness with the Force,in which he was united with its

 

power. [77] He was briefly transfigured as a being of pure Force energy,achieving deeper unity with the Force than any Jedi

 

in history.

[Rayla_Felana]

Wookiepedia says...

 

During his battle with Onimi,Solo experienced a moment of oneness with the Force,in which he was united with its

 

power. [77] He was briefly transfigured as a being of pure Force energy,achieving deeper unity with the Force than any Jedi

 

in history.

 

Jacen for an albeit brief moment, was the most powerful manifestation of the force on record, you are correct.

[tyranusdarec]

Actually, I must correct this, the RotS novel clearly states Yoda could never defeat Sidious, he never stood a chance, for many many reasons I cannot be bothered typing out.

 

Been years since I read RotS but I think that is wrong. If memory serves Yoda stopped because he knew they would tear the senate building apart and alot of innocents would be killed. But again its been awhile.

 

Doesnt matter though cause the movie adaptions are always lacking. And quite often go way far from the original movies. So I dont trust them or what they say too much.

 

Tyr

[Rayla_Felana]

Been years since I read RotS but I think that is wrong. If memory serves Yoda stopped because he knew they would tear the senate building apart and alot of innocents would be killed. But again its been awhile.

 

Doesnt matter though cause the movie adaptions are always lacking. And quite often go way far from the original movies. So I dont trust them or what they say too much.

 

Tyr

 

No, Sidious had already won, that was the point, He had Vader, he had the empire and the Jedi were all but extinct, when Yoda faced him, he realised that there was no way he could fight the Sith, the Sith had adapted and changed, prepared in the shadows for a thousand years for this day, the Jedi had spent a thousand years preparing to fight the last war, they were completely out-matched and out-played by this new breed of Sith, Sidious was way too powerful for Yoda or Windu or anyone the Jedi Order had, He'd become the absolute most powerful Sith Lord ever, and for all the might of the Grand Master, he simple didn't have the power to really defeat Sidious, RotS novel states this.

 

Also, this being an EU debate, all EU must be considered here whenever anything is referenced as a canon source to back up an argument and considering the way the novel describes the battle, it does not contradict other canon.

[Inarai]

No, Sidious had already won, that was the point, He had Vader, he had the empire and the Jedi were all but extinct, when Yoda faced him, he realised that there was no way he could fight the Sith, the Sith had adapted and changed, prepared in the shadows for a thousand years for this day, the Jedi had spent a thousand years preparing to fight the last war, they were completely out-matched and out-played by this new breed of Sith, Sidious was way too powerful for Yoda or Windu or anyone the Jedi Order had, He'd become the absolute most powerful Sith Lord ever, and for all the might of the Grand Master, he simple didn't have the power to really defeat Sidious, RotS novel states this.

 

Also, this being an EU debate, all EU must be considered here whenever anything is referenced as a canon source to back up an argument and considering the way the novel describes the battle, it does not contradict other canon.

 

Erm...

 

Windu couldn't beat Sidious, but Sidious couldn't beat Windu EITHER. The more darkness Sidious channeled, the more Windu would be able to turn around to use as power to fight him. Had Anakin sided with Windu, Sidious would have failed.

 

However, after that moment, he'd won strategically. Beating him in a fight wouldn't have defeated him. A different approach was required, because no amount of power could have DEFEATED him - even in death, he would still have won. Vader would have taken over as Emperor, and even if he didn't the Republic would still have been hunting the Jedi. By the time that fight happened, its outcome was no longer relevant - such is the brilliance of his plan.

[Lastage]

I personally always viewed the fight between Sideous and yoda as a cat and mouse game.

 

Yoda being a jedi relies on defensive tactics and sidious being sith which are usually offensive.

With that being said both sideous and yodas roles are reversed. The fight takes place or at least starts in a sort of throne room for sideous once yoda arrives it is up to him to go beyond defensive techniques and kill sideous.

Now sideous doesnt need to beet yoda only evade him even in real life a lesser fighter can evade (run away) from the better fighter.

 

Sideous wouldnt fight yoda in order to kill yoda he already won the galaxy he only needes to survive.

 

I dont claim one is stronger then the other only that this fight was more cat and mouse then a arm wrestling match.

 

Just my opinion.

[SNCommand]

I personally believe Sidious had a upper hand thanks to the darkness he had brought to the galaxy, star wars lore seems to imply that growing darkness in the galaxy as a whole actually fuels dark side users just like Jedi bring strength from peace and balance

[BrandonSM]

Been years since I read RotS but I think that is wrong. If memory serves Yoda stopped because he knew they would tear the senate building apart and alot of innocents would be killed. But again its been awhile.

 

Doesnt matter though cause the movie adaptions are always lacking. And quite often go way far from the original movies. So I dont trust them or what they say too much.

 

Tyr

 

Thats wrong. He lost. Yoda fled because he lost.

 

Sidious overpowered him by allot.

[ErikModi]

Both wrong, actually.

 

The novelization basically has Yoda realize that, while the Sith had changed, adapted, and become something else entirely since the last war, the Jedi had been training themselves to refight the last war. This new breed of Sith can't really be struck down in the same way as the old: their influence is too pervasive, their plot too far-reaching, for simply killing them work. This is also why Obi-Wan doesn't raise Luke himself and train him as a Jedi from birth, "as Anakin should have been trained." A new kind of war, against a new kind of Sith, needs a new kind of Jedi, one that hasn't been locked into the thinking of a thousand years of dogma. That's Luke.

[Xtrema]

such a topic is pointless, the sith code is so flawed in that they self destruct and turn on each other every time they're close to victory, such a code can never last a decade much less the thousands of years in SW universe. Even so, I would not argue that the light is stronger, they deny themselves passion, or any strong emotion, how can you fight without passion? And pls don't quote lucas, of course he'll side with the light side, can you imagine the backlash he would get otherwise? Lucas has to promote light because star wars appeals to the larger audience, including kids.

 

in reality all serious decisions are not as black and white. If there has to be an answer it's probably somewhere in the middle, honestly I think this guy nailed it:

 

Imo Jedi AND sith both can learn from each other, Jedi to use passion, and Sith to not use too much of it lol

[Inarai]

such a topic is pointless, the sith code is so flawed in that they self destruct and turn on each other every time they're close to victory,

 

Amusingly, the issue isn't actually with the code and yet it is still endemic to the Sith.

[Lastage]

As far as dark vs light my Opinion. is that both are close to equal both have level 50 persat but dark side has bonus to leveling exp.

 

Fact: highest level achieved was Jacen Solo he had a moment of oneness with the force. Probably not something you could do all the time this moment actually aged him 5years.

 

What id like to know if this is possible with dark side or if there is a opposite version for darkside.

Like Darth Lastage achieved "noneness with the force"

 

I would also like to confirm or deny if the foce is living or just nature like. This would explain alot for light always winning in the end.

 

Yea yea i know good always wins because RL influences but from a lore standpoint.

[Nover]

The Darkside IS STRONGER, the only disagreements are from fan boys or players who are mad they choose a jedi.

 

 

Try reading the Darth Bane books you'll soon see what happens to the sith

 

[LordOfMassacre]

I have yet to see any genuine shows of Power from a jedi that even remotely come close to what the Dark Lords of the Sith have achieved.

 

But to be fair I need to accurately define what mean by power.

 

The fact that the Jedi come back and eventually triumph is simply good prevailing over evil and nice story telling that is not what I define as Power. Not to meantion is almost always to some sheer luck or crazy circumstance.

 

 

What I define as Power are the Unnatural, God like powers that the Sith alone have achived.

 

Such as:

 

Darth Nihilious ( Devours entire planets, Absorbs the life force from Jedi Masters and Sith Lords alike with ease, achieving immortality by hiding his essence in his Mask. Is taken down ONLY from exploiting his one weakness love and connection to his apprentice and requiring am entire team to take him down. If the Jedi exile is so powerful why did he/she need visas to weaken him in order to defeat him? the fact is he/she was incapable alone, Darth Nihilous was far too powerful, he was the Dark Side in True form. A wound in the Force)

 

Darth Traya ( a former Jedi Master and Sith Lord whose ambitions were unrivaled, to destroy the Force itself, Master of Revan, Nihilious and Sion her Power was beyond the gifted and ordinary.

 

Darth Sion ( Murder of untold Jedi, unkillable in battle, resurecting indefinitely through His Sheer Hatred and Pain. He is defeated only by letting go of His pain, NOT through battle.)

 

 

 

 

 

The point being and always seems to be that Sith Lords are vastly more powerful than their Jedi counterpart.

 

 

This is evident in The "Unnatural" powers they possess as well as the temptations Jedi have to fall into their order as well as NEARLY ALWAYS requiring two or more jedi or a team to defeat One Sith Lord.

 

IS there a Great temptation for a Sith Lord to turn to the Light side of the Force? No but there are ample examples of Jedi being tempted to The Darkside.

 

 

Why? because the Darkside is a Pathway to Power, to unatural abilities, to perfection and to the zenith of ones potential unbinded by weakness or rules.

 

 

Jedi wins by lucky chance, by having allies or outnumbering HARDLY never a straight up 1 vs 1 Sheer overpowering like Sith Lords are capable of

 

 

Even The Codes,

 

Limitation like the Jedi Code do not bound a Sith Lord in fact their Ultimate goal is to transcend all Limitation and weakness to achieving Perfection and Ultimate Power to whatever means they desire from a selfish one like devouring worlds to achive immortality to a noble one like Darth Vader to save the ones he loves or Darth Revan to protect the republic or The Wraths to bring order and Justice to the Empire.

 

 

It should be noted the Sith Code is NOT evil in of itself rather the option of being evil is not restricted, rather the pursuit of ones desire is ultimate and Power the pathway to it.

[Darth_Solrac]

It's my opinion that the Dark Side is inherently stronger yes. Simply because its force abilities are more meant for offense. While the Light/Jedi's is mostly for defense/healing.

[Lastage]

I have yet to see any genuine shows of Power from a jedi that even remotely come close to what the Dark Lords of the Sith have achieved.

 

But to be fair I need to accurately define what mean by power.

 

The fact that the Jedi come back and eventually triumph is simply good prevailing over evil and nice story telling that is not what I define as Power. Not to meantion is almost always to some sheer luck or crazy circumstance.

 

 

What I define as Power are the Unnatural, God like powers that the Sith alone have achived.

 

Such as:

 

Darth Nihilious ( Devours entire planets, Absorbs the life force from Jedi Masters and Sith Lords alike with ease, achieving immortality by hiding his essence in his Mask. Is taken down ONLY from exploiting his one weakness love and connection to his apprentice and requiring am entire team to take him down. If the Jedi exile is so powerful why did he/she need visas to weaken him in order to defeat him? the fact is he/she was incapable alone, Darth Nihilous was far too powerful, he was the Dark Side in True form. A wound in the Force)

 

Darth Traya ( a former Jedi Master and Sith Lord whose ambitions were unrivaled, to destroy the Force itself, Master of Revan, Nihilious and Sion her Power was beyond the gifted and ordinary.

 

Darth Sion ( Murder of untold Jedi, unkillable in battle, resurecting indefinitely through His Sheer Hatred and Pain. He is defeated only by letting go of His pain, NOT through battle.)

 

 

 

 

 

The point being and always seems to be that Sith Lords are vastly more powerful than their Jedi counterpart.

 

 

This is evident in The "Unnatural" powers they possess as well as the temptations Jedi have to fall into their order as well as NEARLY ALWAYS requiring two or more jedi or a team to defeat One Sith Lord.

 

IS there a Great temptation for a Sith Lord to turn to the Light side of the Force? No but there are ample examples of Jedi being tempted to The Darkside.

 

 

Why? because the Darkside is a Pathway to Power, to unatural abilities, to perfection and to the zenith of ones potential unbinded by weakness or rules.

 

 

Jedi wins by lucky chance, by having allies or outnumbering HARDLY never a straight up 1 vs 1 Sheer overpowering like Sith Lords are capable of

 

 

Even The Codes,

 

Limitation like the Jedi Code do not bound a Sith Lord in fact their Ultimate goal is to transcend all Limitation and weakness to achieving Perfection and Ultimate Power to whatever means they desire from a selfish one like devouring worlds to achive immortality to a noble one like Darth Vader to save the ones he loves or Darth Revan to protect the republic or The Wraths to bring order and Justice to the Empire.

 

 

It should be noted the Sith Code is NOT evil in of itself rather the option of being evil is not restricted, rather the pursuit of ones desire is ultimate and Power the pathway to it.

 

Jaecen Solo sp.

How come you say no jedi ever came close? How bout you tell me one sith that matched his power.

On a side note im no fanboy for reps i actually rolled Imps.

[-NightFall-]

There is no light without Darkness, There is no Darkness without light.

 

As much as they hate one another they cannot exist without the other. Too much of one or the other and it will always be counter balanced by the opposing force.

 

-NF-

[BrandonSM]

Both wrong, actually.

 

The novelization basically has Yoda realize that, while the Sith had changed, adapted, and become something else entirely since the last war, the Jedi had been training themselves to refight the last war. This new breed of Sith can't really be struck down in the same way as the old: their influence is too pervasive, their plot too far-reaching, for simply killing them work. This is also why Obi-Wan doesn't raise Luke himself and train him as a Jedi from birth, "as Anakin should have been trained." A new kind of war, against a new kind of Sith, needs a new kind of Jedi, one that hasn't been locked into the thinking of a thousand years of dogma. That's Luke.

 

Yoda states in the novel and the movie, "Failed I have."

 

And Leland Chee has stated Yoda lost.

 

 

Plus the novelization even depicts Yoda struggling to keep up with Sidious's lightning. Sidious was toying with him the entire fight.

[Darth_Solrac]

Yoda states in the novel and the movie, "Failed I have."

 

And Leland Chee has stated Yoda lost.

 

 

Plus the novelization even depicts Yoda struggling to keep up with Sidious's lightning. Sidious was toying with him the entire fight.

 

I favor the Sith, but going by the movie, Sidious looked pretty genuinely surprised & concerned at how Yoda kept up with him, especially when he repulsed his lightning.

[BrandonSM]

I have yet to see any genuine shows of Power from a jedi that even remotely come close to what the Dark Lords of the Sith have achieved.

 

But to be fair I need to accurately define what mean by power.

 

The fact that the Jedi come back and eventually triumph is simply good prevailing over evil and nice story telling that is not what I define as Power. Not to meantion is almost always to some sheer luck or crazy circumstance.

 

 

What I define as Power are the Unnatural, God like powers that the Sith alone have achived.

 

Such as:

 

Darth Nihilious ( Devours entire planets, Absorbs the life force from Jedi Masters and Sith Lords alike with ease, achieving immortality by hiding his essence in his Mask. Is taken down ONLY from exploiting his one weakness love and connection to his apprentice and requiring am entire team to take him down. If the Jedi exile is so powerful why did he/she need visas to weaken him in order to defeat him? the fact is he/she was incapable alone, Darth Nihilous was far too powerful, he was the Dark Side in True form. A wound in the Force)

 

Darth Traya ( a former Jedi Master and Sith Lord whose ambitions were unrivaled, to destroy the Force itself, Master of Revan, Nihilious and Sion her Power was beyond the gifted and ordinary.

 

Darth Sion ( Murder of untold Jedi, unkillable in battle, resurecting indefinitely through His Sheer Hatred and Pain. He is defeated only by letting go of His pain, NOT through battle.)

 

 

 

 

 

The point being and always seems to be that Sith Lords are vastly more powerful than their Jedi counterpart.

 

 

This is evident in The "Unnatural" powers they possess as well as the temptations Jedi have to fall into their order as well as NEARLY ALWAYS requiring two or more jedi or a team to defeat One Sith Lord.

 

IS there a Great temptation for a Sith Lord to turn to the Light side of the Force? No but there are ample examples of Jedi being tempted to The Darkside.

 

 

Why? because the Darkside is a Pathway to Power, to unatural abilities, to perfection and to the zenith of ones potential unbinded by weakness or rules.

 

 

Jedi wins by lucky chance, by having allies or outnumbering HARDLY never a straight up 1 vs 1 Sheer overpowering like Sith Lords are capable of

 

 

Even The Codes,

 

Limitation like the Jedi Code do not bound a Sith Lord in fact their Ultimate goal is to transcend all Limitation and weakness to achieving Perfection and Ultimate Power to whatever means they desire from a selfish one like devouring worlds to achive immortality to a noble one like Darth Vader to save the ones he loves or Darth Revan to protect the republic or The Wraths to bring order and Justice to the Empire.

 

 

It should be noted the Sith Code is NOT evil in of itself rather the option of being evil is not restricted, rather the pursuit of ones desire is ultimate and Power the pathway to it.

 

 

Nihilus died to Meetra?

 

Just about every Sith Lord has fallen to a Light-Sider/Jedi.

 

Except Marka.

 

 

 

The Sith achieve power quicker but fall quicker as well. When have you heard of the Jedi failing because of another Jedi?

[Seisaan]

None of the Jedi or Sith from the Kotor/TOR era even compare to their PT counterparts. Revan would get his butt whopped, sorry.

 

Which is kinda ironic when you think about it since Kreia tells the Exile an Ancient Sith Lord would wipe the floor with any force user of the Kotor era. Really makes it seem like the Kotor/ToR era force users were the weakest out of the generations of force users.

 

As for which side is stronger, its really up to perspective. I mean, the Sith Code says victory is achieved through power, but the Light Side always prevails in the end. Wouldn't that make the Jedi more powerful by the Sith's own beliefs?

Edited February 29, 2012 by Seisaan