Scoundrel Is a Joke

[astrolite]

This. And we have the same issues on sniper/gs forums. Our class sux no utility blah. Major l2p issues. Still funny considering ops are piss easy to play. lol.

 

Some acs have way too much utility compared to others, nothing new here, hopefully bw will fix that once rated play is available.

 

Wouldn't a nerf to other players utility be a buff - which is what the OP was saying? The SWTOR forums are such the enigma.

[hulkweazel]

I OWN the JG mirror class even after these nerfs, undergeared (by now i know what imp BM gear looks like), and without stims / adrenals.

Wait, what BG is this where it's just nothing but 1v1s? It's really strange, I haven't found any 1v1 BGs yet. Am I looking in the wrong place? All I can find are these Huttball games where it's all about ranged abilities and mobility, which Ops have none of.

 

As for Ops, "Underpowered" isn't the right word. A better word is "limited". They aren't underpowered exactly in terms of heals/DPS, they are just extremely limited in utility.

[Rahak]

Only one of Scoundrel's 3 trees is good at competitively engaging in it's role,

 

and it was the tree that got nerfed...

[SohnderSonne]

I do play a scoundrel, as Burst DPS Specc. And i do not think that this class is unplayable or smth.

 

In Wz´s like Voidstar or Alderaan it´s no Problem to takeover a Tower / Door against 2 enemies, just because the massive Burst Damage, which is still enough to kill at least one enemy without loosing a single HP Point. It´s a fast and very deadly class, i really love it, even if the Damage was reduced.

 

I get still Critts at 5k in the Opening, +Flechete Round, which is over 30% Life for most Enemies. 2 Hits later most people run away searching their parents for help.

 

I played a Jedu Consular DD before and switched to the Scoundrel, i have more Fun and i think i do "more" Dmg. (Not in the all-over amount of Dmg, but more Kills, more Dmg on single Targets.)

[Haralin]

So i am Scoundrel at rang 59 have played all Speccs and i say

 

Scrapper:

 

it is good as it is, you can still beat other player and you have Utilities Stun, Root, Snare, rupt, Ae mezz and a good Ae for defending objektives, for Teamfight very good.

 

 

Sawbone:

 

it is fun to heal with a Sawbone, maybe he needs a little push, i think Kolto Cloud needs to be a bit better, and the Hot, maybe not much. You have not the amazing Burstheal, but you are mobile.

 

 

Dirty Fighting

 

Here i see the only point to buff, the damage is ok, but you have not so much possibility to get upperhand, here Bioware must do something to make this tree an option. This tree also needs an adjustment in energycosts.

 

Scoundrels and Operatives are far away from underpowered but also are not overpowered, the dirty fighting tree needs a little love but the rest is ok.

[FalmeseReb]

Your argument is lacking any weight. First off i'm geared pretty well (all champ) and last night 2 scoundrels were tag-teaming us in hutt-ball. They were hitting me for 2.5k - 3.5k damage with every hit. That means i'm dead in 5 - 6 hits. With 2 of them attacking, they stun, my breaker is on cd, and im dead in 4 seconds - before the first stun is worn off.

 

So when 2 scoundrels/ops team up, they're nuking people in 3 - 4 seconds.

 

How is that "suck"? Even as a sorc I have to pop multiple CDs with another sorc to kill someone in 6 - 8 seconds. Does that mean us sorc/sages are uber-suck?

 

GASP, 2 burst dps classes focus you and you die?! OMGAWD ITS OP NERF IT!!!

[Rotm]

Operative/scounderal are at the bottom of the barrel for pve content, at least endgame content. I think operative/scounderal is more of a pvp class (like rogue in WoW, witch elf in WAR, and assassin in Aion).

 

Rogue was a dominant pve class when I played, maybe thats changed however. ToR pve problems seem to be more of general melee issue from what I've heard combined perhaps with the scoundrel lacking a tree built like the rogue combat tree, in thats its focused around out of stealth single target sustained dps. That wouldn't have worked as a shared tree with snipers so oddly snipers ended up with two DoT based trees.

 

The Assassin/Shadow class specific damage tree was built correctly to deal large burst while not being stealth reliant. I'm not sure why they reverted to old class archetype design principles with the Agents. Large alpha strike limited by very small resource pools and/or positional/status requirements are hard to balance for pve.

[Cataphractone]

Rogue was a dominant pve class when I played, maybe thats changed however. ToR pve problems seem to be more of general melee issue from what I've heard combined perhaps with the scoundrel lacking a tree built like the rogue combat tree, in thats its focused around out of stealth single target sustained dps. That wouldn't have worked as a shared tree with snipers so oddly snipers ended up with two DoT based trees.

 

The Assassin/Shadow class specific damage tree was built correctly to deal large burst while not being stealth reliant. I'm not sure why they reverted to old class archetype design principles with the Agents. Large alpha strike limited by very small resource pools and/or positional/status requirements are hard to balance for pve.

 

Lethality could be that if it had better TA generation.

[Katharsis]

Still playin scoundrel/scrapper rank 67 atm , and im enjoyin my class .

[Sathid]

You may enjoy it but you know as wellas I we are sub par in many things,to deny that is not reality,just wait til the rankings come,i bet anyone smugglers are at the bottom.

[TheAngus]

I disagree with what a lot of you are saying about Ops and Scoundrals.

 

I play a concealment ops and only pvp with it. Currently VR52 sitting at about 643 expertise. In terms of medals i get between 7 and 9 through a huttball match. Those are usually:

2.5k single hit

2.5k single heal

75k damage

Killing blow

10 kills

Kill enemy one on one

1k defender

25 kills

300k damage (this is not often)

75k heals (again this is rare)

 

I feel that i bring a lot to a huttball game because I play to my strengths and understand my weaknesses. Each huttball match I start by running left stealthing at mid point and taking out the ranged on upper level. If there is 2 I sleep dart on and burn the squisher one if they trinkets sleep dart I flash them and keep burning. It's rare to find more than 2. I can usually score 2 kills here if there is another player hitting them all the better.

 

I then do one of 2 things depending if we get the bell or not. If we do then I run support for ball carrier past first lot of flames, either ccing or slowing attackers. I then leave him drop into stealth and run to the goal line within passing range. By this time flash is usually off cooldown. If the ball carrier has a lot of attackers on him I can flash to reduce damage or throw heals if he's getting low. If he looks to be going strong i remain in stealth wait for the throw drop out catch and run to score. Using my flash bang on anyone in front with a knock back. If all goes well and I can stealth again on there goal line I will do so and see if we get the ball again or not. If we do while I am waiting I will try to get someone just dropping out of spawn for my one vs one medal.

 

If the enemy gets the ball at the start, I immediatly start to chase however i do not go for ball carrier instead I lock down the healer, trying to seperate him/her from the pack. Relying on my team to burn the carrier now that the healer if out of the way. While doing this I usually get jumped and almost always die. If im lucky I can get back into the fight and help to burn ball carrier before they score. (1k defence medal)

 

Now that's a very simplified view of a match, but using the above stratagy is often quite succesfull. I know a lot of my own faction healers curse me when I'm againt them. I only queue solo and some times I just get farmed into the ground. But I never feel useless with 4 ccs, 2 from stealth, 1 slow, and some of the best burst in the game. Do others bring more to a huttball match definatly. But a well played op is an asset to any team.

 

Tl:dr Ops are not terrible, perhaps not the best huttball players but still competative.

 

The only buff I would make to ops for pvp is give them another interupt, this will make them extremly powerfull and wanted for any pvp team

[Metalmac]

Pretty sure you will be correct the Scoundrel will be bottom of the pack when ranking comes out.

[Katharsis]

We will see

[Neliok]

except when they have 7+ medals and top damage done in the WZ.

 

/rollseyes

 

 

Op's and scounders still borderline OP if played with any amount of skill.

 

 

But hey guys, why try to rationalize it with these people.. they thought taking you from 100 - dead was ok.

 

when have you ever seen an operative at top dmg in a 50's warzone sir? id like a screen shot for peace of mind because i see snipers on top every once in a great while 10% of the time the other 90% it is either a BH/Trooper or an Inq/Consular never once have i seen an operative at the top good or just spamming dots every which way

Edited February 27, 2012 by Neliok

[Orangerascal]

DoT:

Not worth it at all. Just not much to say here.

 

This spec is ridiculously good and I'm amazed people don't use it enough. I'm doing good damage and ensuring that my opponents do not cap notes. The burst is lacking, but topping or close to topping damage as a fresh 50 is worth it. I see it's potential growing more in full BM.

 

Also I'll be playing my scoundrel over my sage when rated warfronts comes out. If that says anything . This specs fills the sustained damage portion of your premade. Your job isn't to kill but to put pressure on healers (which it does very well).

Edited February 27, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Neliok]

So i am Scoundrel at rang 59 have played all Speccs and i say

 

Scrapper:

 

it is good as it is, you can still beat other player and you have Utilities Stun, Root, Snare, rupt, Ae mezz and a good Ae for defending objektives, for Teamfight very good.

 

 

Sawbone:

 

it is fun to heal with a Sawbone, maybe he needs a little push, i think Kolto Cloud needs to be a bit better, and the Hot, maybe not much. You have not the amazing Burstheal, but you are mobile.

 

 

Dirty Fighting

 

Here i see the only point to buff, the damage is ok, but you have not so much possibility to get upperhand, here Bioware must do something to make this tree an option. This tree also needs an adjustment in energycosts.

 

Scoundrels and Operatives are far away from underpowered but also are not overpowered, the dirty fighting tree needs a little love but the rest is ok.

 

all they need to do for dirty fighting/lethality is make the top tier talent o a 6 second cooldown and make it give upper hand/tactical advantage and up the dot dmg to be more in line with all the other classes dot dmg because frankly...ours is kind of low compared to theirs and it could use the buff

Edited February 27, 2012 by Neliok

[LenrocNewDawn]

To all you ops/scoundrels that are unhappy with your tune I'm willing to give you my sharpshooter-slinger for a spin . He's very OP. Just make sure you keep him away of ops/scoundrels or sorcs/sages or melee and you'll be fine .

 

Seriously now, Scoundrels/ops have enough burst to burn healing classes (maybe not the trooper/mirror) in one run and needs to use vanish for a second run on the more tank-er classes. I know I need to L2P but still in my scrub experience my slinger is getting creamed a lot by those classes, so your whining about those needing a buff will get no sympathy from me, sorry .

[vedranpauk]

dont know about scrapper burst but i play hybrid 23/16/2..

 

and major flow of this class is healing someone under focus fire, we just cant handle it - relaying ONLY on 2 sec heal or RNG 30% proc of UH so we can cast instant heal . Self survival is great and i love it but major flow of our class is actually the job its made for HEALING OTHERS...

 

How many time there was situation where I come and someone is getting pressured , what can I do.. I don't have UH/TA up OK my instant is not available, I can HoT him and use 3sec after which he will proly be dead or try to cast 2 sec cast if interrupted he is toast...

 

We need instant heal that can be cast on demand, or shield others in current situation our healing for PvP is just lol, we can take care of ourself due to fact that we have self shield + extra HoT...

 

I don't want XYZ buff healing or better heals I just want option to keep people up...

[Polimeris]

This spec is ridiculously good and I'm amazed people don't use it enough. I'm doing good damage and ensuring that my opponents do not cap notes. The burst is lacking, but topping or close to topping damage as a fresh 50 is worth it. I see it's potential growing more in full BM.

 

Also I'll be playing my scoundrel over my sage when rated warfronts comes out. If that says anything . This specs fills the sustained damage portion of your premade. Your job isn't to kill but to put pressure on healers (which it does very well).

 

Burst damage is awesome in dirty fighting. And doting around is pretty much useless inflated numbers : as a healer, I can tell you you put no pressure at all with the dots only. It's the mix of dots + single target damage that make dirty fighting dangerous.

Dirty fighting is good, especially hybrids specs, but it's very difficult to play well. And you better stay away with dispellers..

[JediDuckling]

Scoundrel is a joke.

 

HEALING SPEC:

They are a filler healer, and if you go to the fleet there is not a SINGLE person who would rather have a Scoundrel healer than a Commando {for their survivability} or a Sage {for better heals and more/better (aoe) slows}

The weakest of the three specs. <----smugglers are support healers

 

DPS {Burst}:

This was nerfed, and was the only reason to play scoundrel/operative was to abuse it whne it was overpowerd and 2 shotting people because i cant pvp.

 

DoT:

Not worth it at all. Just not much to say here.

 

 

All three specs have loads of utility in PvP. Not to mention that i get so few medals during PvP compared to other classes because i dont know how to play class

 

THE ANSWER IS NOT TO NERF EVERYTHING ELSE - ITS TO LEAVE SCOUDNREL HOW IT IS!

^Bioware, please read that over again and again. Slowly because is suck!

 

Thanks.

 

there i fixed it for you

[Orangerascal]

Burst damage is awesome in dirty fighting. And doting around is pretty much useless inflated numbers : as a healer, I can tell you you put no pressure at all with the dots only. It's the mix of dots + single target damage that make dirty fighting dangerous.

Dirty fighting is good, especially hybrids specs, but it's very difficult to play well. And you better stay away with dispellers..

 

And as a healer myself, there is nothing I hate more than lots of little damage that gets spread like herpes forcing me to keep switching targets in this horribly designed ui system that sometimes does not update. It's bad enough people run around corners and do not stand still for aoe heals (even when I announce it on mumble). It's worse when I don't get up to date information and the sustained damage is more than I can handle. The thing about persistent damage ... is just that ... it's persistent. Even if you think you healed the guy, he will still be taking damage.

 

Also my 1 aoe heal on a 15s cooldown. My 1 dispel every 4.5 seconds is countering their 1 dot. If I'm dispelling every 4.5 secs instead of casting heals, that dps is doing his job well.

 

Dots win the attrition war which is what 8 good players vs 8 good players is about. Games where tanks actually tank instead of dps.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Orangerascal

[TheAngus]

when have you ever seen an operative at top dmg in a 50's warzone sir? id like a screen shot for peace of mind because i see snipers on top every once in a great while 10% of the time the other 90% it is either a BH/Trooper or an Inq/Consular never once have i seen an operative at the top good or just spamming dots every which way

 

Objective based pvp is not only about damage done. I can put out 300-400k damage in a warzone which is often enough to top damage done depending on who I am oblong with. However this means that I am in the middle of fights and becoming quite a burden on our healers. It also means that 2 of my ccs are not being used. With limited use of flash bangs because of aoe damage.

 

Operatives should be picking strategic targets are removing them from the fight. Spending less time than a lot of other classes engaged in combat. This is there role, trying to top damage done is not using the skills you have and not playing to your strengths. Ops do not have the best dps over extended periods and if the go toe to toe with a sniper sorc or bh camping gantries you will loose in terms of damage output. However we do have excellent burst and using the skills we have you can stop those players topping dps charts and controlling the middle.

 

There are several sorcs and bounty hunters who top dps when on my team and don't when i play against them because i know they are a threat and try to remove then.

[CrAzYChIcKeNeD]

I play a Scoundrel on Flames of the Crucible (EU), I top damage on many games, even when just chasing carriers. But nonetheless it must be noted, when compared with an Assassin's utility, and to a lesser extent their damage we do fall short (and I have tested this many, many times across pretty much every level 50 gear level.

 

We are not massively underpowered and worthless as many people posting here seem to be making out, but we could do with a minor adjustment to Shoot First and maybe some other stuff. I say Shoot First because at the moment it hits exactly the same as Back Blast for me, whilst the Assassin out of stealth skills seem to hit alot harder that the majority of their combat skill(s) when critting.

 

In terms of healing in PvP we are pretty decent, can get over 500k heals in a game if I really want to and I rarely heal, but we do fall short of Mercs/Commandos because they have more defense. In PvE we are hands down underpowerd, no burst healing, only 4 target AoE healing and for very low amounts. Makes me laugh that Bioware say 'Emergency Medpac is for burst healing' and 'Salvation is high cost', have they ever played a Sage or Scoundrel healer? They seem to know very, very little about how they play.

Edited February 27, 2012 by CrAzYChIcKeNeD

[Sookster]

uhh, how about invisibility?

 

there are a couple really good operatives/scoundrels that pvp on my server and they are one of the few classes that can give my jug serious trouble. they usually wait until im engaged in a fight with another player, stealth up behind me and begin to destroy my hp. i mean really really serious crit damage.

 

LOL, that's the thing- MOST wait for you to have 75% health or such and busy fighting someone before they attack you. I've had many many many scounderal/operatives knock me down and attempt to kill me only to fail and get stunned themselves for me to kite and snare. I've only had problems with maybe 3 of them on my server and 2 of them are in my guild. Assassin/shadows pose a bigger threat to me than scounderal/operatives does on my juggernaut, shocks/project can do nasty damage and so can maul/shadow strike if they have the force to spare.

 

On my operative, I hardly ever use hidden strike.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Sookster

[Boleslav]

over 5000 Shoot First? this is a joke?

full Champion+BM implants + Power Relic + Expertise Adrenal 4400 Critical Shoot first on not full champ victim.

Backblast 3200 - same terms

 

relic and adrenals have cooldowns....