Scoundrel Is a Joke

[aypolo]

I wonder if bioware looks at these threads or just says "Meh, **** it" and play spin-the-bottle to chose which class they will nerf/buff next.

 

Bioware, please see that the majority of players here believe that Scoundrel needs a buff.

[Rogmar]

Scoundrel is fine, l2p. And yes, I have a level 50 Scoundrel. Edited February 28, 2012 by Rogmar

[Humankeg]

Damage is NOT the problem with operatives/scoundrels.

 

Please read the rest of the thread.

 

Was quoting someone's reasoning. I don't have issues with ops daamge at all right now. Just defending that ops NEEDED a nerf badly... pre nerf.

[CaptainInsano]

Scoundrel healers suck at everything compared to Sorcs, Scoundrel DPS is the worst PvE DPS, but it's okay in PvP. Middle of the pack basically. It's arguable which class is the weakest in game atm between Scoundrel and Gunslinger. Gunslinger pros are good PvE DPS and mediocre in PvE. I think it's safe to say Scoundrel is the worst class. Edited February 28, 2012 by CaptainInsano

[RedOmen]

Snipers have no 1v1 at all. They have one single move to push away a melee threat and have one single interupt for ranged fights. I'm valor 55 so Ive done my homework and tried all spec and hybrid specs. Feels like the other classes have 2, sometime smore cc's they can use in pvp, snipers have zero. Unless you count one 2 second stun in melee range. they have no sprints, no jumps, no pulls, no pushes... nothign for movement. They have escape which has a 2minute cd. I know other classes have 2 (esacpes) because I'll knock them them back which stuns for 2 secs but they come right back, blowing a cd obviously, then I'll leg shot to hold them, once again, only 2 secs but they break that and their on me. Snipers simply do not have enough tools to keep people away. Once they are in its over. The tools we have to keep people away take about 5 seconds to perform and during that time you aren'ti actually shooting them so they aren't actually taking any damage.

My opinion is snipers need another interput or knockback or something. Mayeb even extended their range. Lets face it that 5 extra meters means nothing. Very very few instances where I was able to pull of a shot without being in range. Someone is runnign at you and you fire AS SOON as they are in range when they are hit and stop (leg shot) they already covered that 5 yard range and you have no range advantage. They start shooting.

Snipers have absolutley no healing abilities at all. zero. Unless you spec into vital regualtors you can get a whoping 3% every three minutes. THAT'S a joke.

Sniper 1v1 is a joke. No cc. No healing. No actual range advantage. One single escape. One single knockback (which I might also add takes time to set up). One single interput. They are at a disadvantage in all circumstances, Ive been in just about all of them. High ground/low ground/at range (if your on your toes you can get a single snipe off, (which as we all know wont' go through someone shields anyways).

Very very dissapointed in sniper pvp. The 5 meter advantage is a joke when less than 1 second of travel time makes up that 5 meters. Which I might add... isn't even enough time to get a single shot off... I have been pounding ahead to get battlemaster gear for the soul purpose of taking out the enchanements etc and placing them in other gear... Just not sur eI have the patience to do it anymore.

[AdmiralOnasi]

there i fixed it for you

 

You could never "two shot" people once bracketing happened and stim stacking was fixed.

[hulkweazel]

Scoundrel healers suck at everything compared to Sorcs, Scoundrel DPS is the worst PvE DPS, but it's okay in PvP. Middle of the pack basically. It's arguable which class is the weakest in game atm between Scoundrel and Gunslinger. Gunslinger pros are good PvE DPS and mediocre in PvE. I think it's safe to say Scoundrel is the worst class.

The problem is that they were nerfed with no other buffs to compensate their lack of utility.

[Comfterbilly]

Scoundrel is a joke.

 

HEALING SPEC:

They are a filler healer, and if you go to the fleet there is not a SINGLE person who would rather have a Scoundrel healer than a Commando {for their survivability} or a Sage {for better heals and more/better (aoe) slows}

The weakest of the three specs.

 

DPS {Burst}:

This was nerfed, and was the only reason to play scoundrel/operative in the first place.

 

DoT:

Not worth it at all. Just not much to say here.

 

 

All three specs lack utility in PvP. Not to mention that Scoundrels get so few medals during PvP compared to other classes.

 

THE ANSWER IS NOT TO NERF EVERYTHING ELSE - ITS TO BUFF SCOUNDREL!

^Bioware, please read that over again and again. Slowly.

 

Thanks.

 

Get geared up and see what you think.

 

On second thought, trash the scoundrel. I hate those bastards. Damage, cloaking, kick you in the balls, laugh like prikks, heal themselves.

 

They can stealth, pop out and attack you, very fast runners going around in circles, kick you in the balls and disappear........ other than being a bunch of greasy looking dirtbags who you just want to tear apart before they disappear run away, heal themselves, then kill you when their gaurdian pal shows up, other than that what's not to like?

 

[Edit] I will say, being able to stealth and talk trash over the general chat on top of all this does not lend it self to character building, and by character I mean character.

 

And they look like a bunch of idiots. By the way if anyone knows what channel to turn their laughs off or where that is in the preferences menu, please let me know. Now that my expertise is 700 and I respecced to rage hybrid I hate them a little less since I'm able to smash them, but as far as the class itself goes the only reason I can think not to play it is if being an annoying [... expletive deletive...] does not appeal to you, lol.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Comfterbilly

[Rogmar]

The problem is that they were nerfed with no other buffs to compensate their lack of utility.

 

How are they lacking utility compared to other Melee DPS classes? They are the only one that can Heal and remove debuffs.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Rogmar

[_Morholt_]

How are they lacking utility compared to other Melee DPS classes? They are the only one that can Heal and remove debuffs.

 

They can only remove tech debuffs unless you spec into heals I do believe....and their 1 heal if they aren't specced for Medpac......is their long cast heal that takes 20%ish energy and without the heal talents is lucky to heal for 3k crit. Also easy to interrupt that.

 

Scoundrels just need a say..10-20% across the board buff to compensate for their say.....20%+ nerf that didn't need to happen because ungeared people QQed too much.

 

Rated will reveal all when none of the top teams have Ops.

[cashogy]

scoundrels can stun lock someone for 4-7 seconds. i would say that is a valuable skill against a healer. stun lock -> then the group kills the healer.

 

all of you saying scoundrel is bad are hero-mode tdm players.

[Niaoru]

You could never "two shot" people once bracketing happened and stim stacking was fixed.

 

To be fair, I killed a battlemaster maurader in 4 globals last week. Probably could have done it in 3, since my blaster whip didn't crit. :S

Edited February 28, 2012 by Niaoru

[AdmiralOnasi]

How are they lacking utility compared to other Melee DPS classes? They are the only one that can Heal and remove debuffs.

 

Scoundrels have no guard, taunt, knockback, gap closer, sustained DPS, or survivability. We only have two defensive abilities, and Dodge is really only used for cleaning DoTs when you're about to vanish.

[DariuszPol]

I play mirror class Operative. Here is my hints to you:

 

Scoundrel is a joke.

 

HEALING SPEC:

They are a filler healer, and if you go to the fleet there is not a SINGLE person who would rather have a Scoundrel healer than a Commando {for their survivability} or a Sage {for better heals and more/better (aoe) slows}

The weakest of the three specs.

 

Don't play as healer. Or learn to play as healer. You know what was pain in the *** in one warzone I have played ? Scoundrel healer that was healing from EVERYWHERE!. Stealth, position yourself next to some column or something when no one see you. Heal. Vanish and heal again from other place. Not only is hard to kill a healer but it's even harder when he can run, go stealth and heal from somewhere else.

At least commando stay in one place and get himself killed slowly. Scoundrel just vanish to pop up somewhere else.

Yeah, they are still easy to kill compare to commando (i was hunting that Scoundrel healer all the time using my Operative) but he was doing good.

Best thing to do - don't play as healer.

 

DPS {Burst}:

This was nerfed, and was the only reason to play scoundrel/operative in the first place.

 

I start playing Operative after great nerf so I can't compare but if right now my Operative is god on battlefield - I can't even imagine what kind of ****** he was before his nerf and surge nerf.

To explain - I do mostly PVP. I NEVER lost 1vs1 fight against ANYONE. And I scored few 1vs1 medals.

I can kill light armored Inquisitors and Consulars BEFORE THEY ARE ABLE TO MOVE. Literally. If attacked from stealth - they are as good as dead. 1/4 and sometimes 1/3 of their health just from first attack. Then 2 additional attacks and another flashbank to test if they can break stun. If they can then another stun from knife and finisher.

 

I don't think that Operative better DPS buff. I focus on 1vs1 fights and still sometimes I do more damage than any other class except Bounty Hunters because of their AOE.

No idea how this will work after I hit 50 (i'm 46 right now) but right now I'm doing fine.

 

DoT:

Not worth it at all. Just not much to say here.

 

Not worth ? I use it all the time. I focus on Concealment but from Lethality I took some upgrades so my poison dart last longer and do more damage. It's best tool I have in every warzone. No stealth class can escape to stealth after my attack. For 18s they have DoT effect that break they stealth and I can spam this ****. Same with capturing node.

 

2-3 enemies attacking my node in Alderan ? Even if they manage to kill me they will NOT capture my node for 18s. And it take me much faster to get back and kill them. They can't heal themselves. They can do a ****.

 

 

All three specs lack utility in PvP. Not to mention that Scoundrels get so few medals during PvP compared to other classes.

 

Loot of people score 4-6 medals. Only Tanks score more. Yet I'm able to score 6-9 medals.

 

Usually:

Medic – 2.5k healing from a single heal

Demolisher – 2.5k damage from a single attack

Quick Draw – Getting a killing blow on one player

Combatant – Dealing 75k damage

Defender – Earning 1k Defender Points

Warden – Earning 3k Defender Points

Assassin – Killing a player in a one-on-one fight

Commando – Killing 10 enemy players

Soldier – Killing 25 enemy players

 

 

THE ANSWER IS NOT TO NERF EVERYTHING ELSE - ITS TO BUFF SCOUNDREL!

^Bioware, please read that over again and again. Slowly.

 

Thanks.

 

So we can be unkillable ? Times when we could kill 1 guy, vanish and kill another before they do anything are long gone. Now we must work like others mate Easy mode would be fun but not for long run.

 

Get real.

[andysdead]

I actually sort of agree. I think the whole NERF NERF NERF thing really needs to die in a fire. If a class is weak compared to other classes, BUFF IT.

[Hett]

This thread makes me roll on the fu*king floor laughing.

[Grifin]

Have no clue why ppl are askign for buffs.

 

Its L2p issue.

 

Maybe they dont have utility or dps in Pve but u mostly talkign about PvP.

 

So any of you, who know how to play him will beat 1v1 almost any class... maybe every class.

 

If you need some escape... go stealth.. make hybrid build.

 

 

I pvp alot. Atm i dont have problem with Ops. But until some good player comes

and he can bring my Focus guardian to 15 % left.. and then there is no fight back..

 

So its L2P issue.

 

You can see diferences at any class... depends on player.

[Faulhaber]

IMO they need better resource regen after bursting so they might have some acceptable sustained damage after that.

 

But that is very hard to balance.

 

Perhaps reducing a little the damage from some abilities, increasing resource regen and adding a buff on the first opener from stealth temporarily allowing for more damage, reduce stun duration and give them immunity to CC and extra speed when they open from stealth, so that it would reduce the "stunlock" feeling on their victims.

[Demarcc]

I play mirror class Operative. Here is my hints to you:

 

 

 

Get real.

 

It wont be the same at 50 trust me. I've yet to be destroyed by a lone Ops and I'm a sawbones healer. Then again I dont hang around to fight the good ones, the bad ones I kill, the good ones I run from and since I can CC them back, heal and flee they dont kill me without an assist in some form. They can make my life horrid, but they dont kill me.

 

You going to see a HUGE hp jump when you hit 50 that has an immediate effect on a burst class like OPs. For example as a healer sawbones I run a little over 20,000 hp in PvP. Your burst means less when you have to chew through that. New 50's in terrible gear you may be able to gank still .. but you wont face many of them in the 50's bracket.

[Grifin]

I dont get how poster above 2 posts can say soemthing liek that.

 

Thsi class is already Stealth opener.. DOnt buff f*****g dmg from opener.. make substained dps instead.

 

YOu ppl go get break.. walk in fresh air and then maybe bring up some ideas.

becouse these ones are just stupid.

 

 

Good and geared scoundrel in champ/cnet gear wich isnt hard to get can stun lock you and bring you donw in 2 -3 stuns, depends on you cc breaker.

 

But still--- he will vanish and open from stealth again..

 

SO why the ehck buff stealth opener ? Becosue you wants free kills ?

 

Go cry somewhere else.. go cry to Wow or whatever..

[Stranger_LDR]

All the people saying: "L2P, you're bad, etc" is simply idiots... or playing assassing/mara.

While being an idiot is common here, playing assassin/mara takes some skills actually.

 

Scoundrels are not really fine. But that's all about of the definition of "FINE"

 

Is 30m tracer spammer fine with 50% armor debuff, knockbacks, ranged stun and so on?

Is 30m bubble idiot spamming lightning, escaping, LoSing, DoTing, healing etc, all day long fine?

 

 

If you answered "YES", then scoundrels aren't fine.

 

There are GOOD and even better scoundrels. But it takes 2-3 times more effort to be good at it, while it takes a monkey and a 2 button joystick to be okay as tracer spammer.

 

Why am I saying this? Well, cause I tried them all.

Commando / Sage is like playing Max Payne with that time-slow thingie. You have more time and better view of what's going on. And if someone is coming for you, it's clear and obvious.

 

All melee are at disadvantage. Since every other time I open up on some poor sod, the player on the other side "lags" - intentionally or not, they just get away from my second strike and getting back to spot in like 3-5 secs. This is bullcrap tbh and it's an awful game design. In DAoC it was called window dragging. THIS will never happen to ranged dps, unless u're a sitting turret sniper ofc.

 

Those who roll eyes upon seeing scoundrel in wz, like they're a dead weight - are ret@rds ofc, but that doesn't mean scoundrels don't need fixing.

 

While you think: OMG, dude, l2p.

I say: go and fk yourself.

Coz: http://i.imgur.com/SM9Ae.jpg (/wave war hero dps merc there, standing next to me btw ^_^)

 

TL;DR: I can do fine on scoundrel, but I can do 3-5 times better on sorc/merc. WHY?!

P.S.: To the dude above: No, you can't kill a good player / same geared player on the opener even if u stun lock him/her. You're just making things up, or remembering things from times you were terribly geared.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Stranger_LDR

[snaplemouton]

Scoundrel is the best PvP healer in the game... and an extremely powerfull PvE healer. Commando is the worst healer in the game and a scoundrel can heal nearly 50% more then a commando.

A Scoundrel damage is extremely high. Shoot first hitting for 4.5k with a 1.8k flechette round on top of it... I mean come on. And that's in centurion gear.

We are the only healer that never need to stop to cast and cast an heal. Getting 5k heal medal is a joke compared to what a commando need to do to get it.

We have the highest AoE DPS in the game on par with gunslinger...

 

Not to mention that we have smuggle. Probably the best spell in the game whatever people says about it. My guild loves it.

 

And yes I got a Commando healer fully champion and compared to what I can do with my centurion scoundrel... it's a joke.

I also have a Centurion Jedi Guardian but that would be off-topic.

Edited February 28, 2012 by snaplemouton

[andysdead]

All the people saying: "L2P, you're bad, etc" is simply idiots... or playing ***/mara.

While being an idiot is common here, playing ***/mara takes some skills actually.

 

Scoundrels are not really fine. But that's all about of the definition of "FINE"

 

Is 30m tracer spammer fine with 50% armor debuff, knockbacks, ranged stun and so on?

Is 30m bubble idiot spamming lightning, escaping, losing, healing etc, all day long fine?

 

 

If you answered "YES", then scoundrels aren't fine.

 

There are GOOD and even better scoundrels. But it takes 2-3 times more effort to be good at it, while it takes a monkey and a 2 button joystick to be okay as tracer spammer.

 

Why am I saying this? Well, cause I tried them all.

Commando / Sage is like playing Max Payne with that time-slow thingie. You have more time and better view of what's going on. And if someone is coming for you, it's clear and obvious.

 

All melee are at disadvantage. Since every other time I open up on some poor sod, the player on the other side "lags" - intentionally or not, they just get away from my second strike and getting back to spot in line 3-5 secs. This is bullcrap tbh and it's an awful game design. In DAoC it was called window dragging. THIS will never happen to ranged dps, unless u're a sitting turret sniper ofc.

 

Those who roll eyes upon seeing scoundrel in wz, like they're a dead weight - are ret@rds ofc, but that doesn't mean scoundrels don't need fixing.

 

While you think: OMG, dude, l2p.

I say: go and fk yourself.

Coz: http://i.imgur.com/SM9Ae.jpg (/wave war hero dps merc there, standing next to me btw ^_^)

 

TL;DR: I can do fine on scoundrel, but I can do 3-5 times better on sorc/merc. WHY?!

P.S.: To the dude above: No, you can't kill a good player / same geared player on the opener even if u stun lock him/her. You're just making things up, or remembering things from times you were terribly geared.

 

Hi, I play a marauder. I could beat scoundrels/operatives 1v1 before the nerf. I can beat almost anyone 1v1, so long as my cooldowns are up. I'm also probably better geared than you and have high-end PvP experience in other MMOs.

 

But I admit, I could not beat scoundrels/operatives 1v1 in this game until I figured it out. You just have to use your break free ability on the first stun. Sounds simple enough, right? Well, it's not, considering that it's a relatively long cooldown. I still get owned by scoundrels/operatives on occasion, usually when I'm running a Huttball and I don't see them waiting for me.

 

Do I think scoundrels/operatives need a nerf? Nope. Buff? Not exactly. I think surge needs to be reverted to its original state. That would actually solve a lot of the dps problems that certain classes are having right now. Serge was awesome and now it's.... meh.

 

I do not, however, believe that scoundrels/operatives need to be reverted to the state of 8-10k damage openers. That is a bit excessive.

[Stranger_LDR]

What makes you think you're better geared than me? What makes you think I don't have high-end mmo pvp experience myself in the first place?

 

You can't get better geared than pvp/pve set mix, or champ/bm set mix (which is my case).

As I said, Mara takes skill to play. I own 99% of maras if played on my terms, your defensive with taking 99% less dmg won't save you, cause u're going to stand in root/slow all the duration, I'll make sure of that

 

Yes, watchman spec is harder to counter, still very manageable.

Anyway, I didn't say scoundrels need a damage buff. They need out of stealth capability to last a fight in melee cluster. (Lower CDs, better enegry management, mobility etc)

 

Hunting soloers is not a good gameplay, cause it's a team based game, right? Try soloing in voidstar, hrr hrr. Well you can, if u fight 2 rooms behind of the team ofc.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Stranger_LDR

[TheGreatNeechi]

Scoundrel is a joke.

 

HEALING SPEC:

They are a filler healer, and if you go to the fleet there is not a SINGLE person who would rather have a Scoundrel healer than a Commando {for their survivability} or a Sage {for better heals and more/better (aoe) slows}

The weakest of the three specs.

 

DPS {Burst}:

This was nerfed, and was the only reason to play scoundrel/operative in the first place.

 

DoT:

Not worth it at all. Just not much to say here.

 

 

All three specs lack utility in PvP. Not to mention that Scoundrels get so few medals during PvP compared to other classes.

 

THE ANSWER IS NOT TO NERF EVERYTHING ELSE - ITS TO BUFF SCOUNDREL!

^Bioware, please read that over again and again. Slowly.

 

Thanks.

 

As a very capable Operative I'm here to tell you you're dead wrong. The trouble with Operative as it was before 1.1.1 was a pervasive case of 1-2-3-4 DPS rotation killing everything without a lot of effort.

 

You're going to have to play better now. You're going to have to master the resolve system. You're going to have to use ALL of your abilities, ALL of your stuns, you're actually going to have to bind Distraction to a key you can get too easily. You're going to have to actually USE Stim Boost, Shield Probe, and know when to pop your CC breaker, and how to properly use EVASION.

 

Operatives/Scoundrels STILL kill... severely. An Operative is a Sage's worst nightmare. I don't care leet "leet" a healing spec you have as a Sorcerer or Sage, an Operative played half-way decently will RIP YOU A NEW ONE.

 

Operative DPS is FINE, you just need to learn how to Operative stun/interrupt/escape/etc.

 

I mean, I'm sorry, 1 on 1 I kill just about everything, even heavily geared Troopers and Bounty Hunters. I don't understand where this QQ is coming from. Sure, I get ganked like everyone else, but when I start a 1 on 1 fight on MY terms... I'm pretty much guaranteed to win.

Edited February 28, 2012 by TheGreatNeechi