Lasarith Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Golly, that's a nice lightsaber you have. Missile! BOOM Flame thrower! WOOOSHH Rocket Punch! KAPOW Dead Jedi. So Uncivilized Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthtoph Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I dunno, my Sentinel is pretty awesome. You're doing it wrong, play along. Yeah, my Watchman is a wuss, pls buff us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmegaMayhem Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 So Uncivilized But effective! BOOMFIREPOWFLAMEMICHAELBAYSPLOSION!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lasarith Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 But effective! BOOMFIREPOWFLAMEMICHAELBAYSPLOSION!!!!! Oh hes makeing TF4 in 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowanThursday Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I dunno either... I'm a *terrible* gamer, seeing my character standing around looking vaguely clueless taking damage and thinking "Hang on, who's attacking me again, and *where*?" is a fairly common sight... and I love my smuggler to *bits*, but on the strength of Tython and Coruscant so far, I'm actually finding my Sentinel pretty tough, comparatively speaking. She's had fewer deaths, and they've all been my fault (the 'force leap at crowd of enemies and notice mid-leap that I'm actually only on 25% health', that kind of 'my fault' -- Ashara Zavros, forget everything I swore at you when I was playing Inquisitor, now I know how you feel )... Whereas my Inquisitor had to be at least two to three levels above an Elite to stand a chance, and my Smuggler had to be a level above, Bethan the Knight seems to be able to go toe-to-toe with Elites her own level and be fairly confident about it. She even manages to be not-totally-useless in a fight with her companions off doing something else. So... if *I* can manage it- so far- I'm assuming anybody else can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 You mean a player actually has to work at his/her class to be good? Oh the nerve. Very true +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangccom Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Golly, that's a nice lightsaber you have. Tracer Missile! BOOM Tracer Missle! Tracer Missle! Tracer Missle! Rocket Punch! KAPOW Dead Jedi. I fixed your post for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 If your Jugg is squishy then you ain't doin' it right. I've got an assassin darkness tank that would like to laugh in mine, yours and every immortal or even immortal/veng or immortal/rage cross spec'd jugg's face when comparing toolboxes. And damage. My jugg tank's got just shy of 10% more passive damage mitigation, but doesn't have a 60 second CC against non-droids (or anything) and an 8 second whirlwind that can, indeed, be very handy for putting an add on ice, doesn't have 3 AoE's (which, on top of the taunts, make controlling an encounter breezy in comparison) and have no in-built means of offsetting their impact on healers (500-ish HP healed every 4.5 seconds just for using dark stance? 3% of full health ticks off force lightning after stacking 3 of whatever-its-called? I'll take it) So, with superior DPS in full tank spec with more of that DPS coming in the form of harder-to-resist Force damage rather than white even in the tank form to what a jugg tank can put out even as a hybrid tank/dps in soresu ...you still wanna hold that position? It'd be one thing if jugg tanks, or probably jedi guardian tanks along with them, truly excelled if played hard, but they don't; they function. You can get that same function for a melee tank at a lesser degree of skill requirement out of an assassin, and if you're playing an assassin tank with a jugg investment of skill? Bahahaha. And don't stand either up alongside a powertech tank for too long. Warrior tanks definitely come in a rather distant last place on the tank list. And whoever says they're the best single target boss tanks has truly never seen an assassin tank or a powertech tank (or probably their republic-side equivalents as well) played to that spec. Or they'd never, ever say so again and would feel ashamed that they ever did to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subrosian Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Guild Wars was a DISASTER when it came to class balance, don't you remember the problem with Monks? Don't you remember how the game basically *DIED* because of how badly the classes were managed? The original SWG tried to make Jedi Knights into a prestige class - they were much more powerful than any other class, but if they died three times they were gone. It was an interesting system, and one that kind of worked... but it would be a disaster to have done in SWTOR (imagine telling casual they had to reach Legacy Level 50 before they could roll a Jedi... and imagine the forum rage when they hit 50, get ganked in Ilum, and then find their toon is permanently deleted). - In truth though? Jedi actually aren't that powerful in canon. Jedi get killed by Mandalorians, they get killed by Black Sun gangsters, they get killed by *regular old fashioned troopers* (hello Order 66). The expectation people have that Jedi can just flip around and kill everyone really doesn't hold up in any of the books, it doesn't even hold up in the movies (hello, Obi-Wan loses to Jango Fett). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatonastick Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 In truth though? Jedi actually aren't that powerful in canon. Jedi get killed by Mandalorians, they get killed by Black Sun gangsters, they get killed by *regular old fashioned troopers* (hello Order 66). The expectation people have that Jedi can just flip around and kill everyone really doesn't hold up in any of the books, it doesn't even hold up in the movies (hello, Obi-Wan loses to Jango Fett). This. I keep forgetting this and whining to my friends about my various Jedi/Sith characters when I get my behind handed to me, but more than once I've been reminded by one of them who knows quite a bit about Star Wars canon that I've got a skewed understanding of how powerful Jedi/Sith are. The fact of the matter is most of the "big name" Jedi/Sith are unusually powerful examples and not your average Jedi/Sith. As you say the average Jedi/Sith are killed all the time in canon by relatively normal, non-uber opponents. Still... I keep thinking my Jedi/Sith are one of the "big name" powerful examples and get disappointed when they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bahugboto Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Which makes what I said stand. They ain't doin' it right. Why don't you explain a jug's tanking rotation to us then, and why don't you put up a chart of the dmg mitigation affected by a jugs heavy armor compared to a shadow tank, then list out the abilities which allows a Shadow Tank to easily overcome their lack of armor? A shadow tank can virtually have round the clock mitigation of white physical attacks for the whole duration of fights, they have far better internal force power/tech resistance, and can buff it to stay invulnerable to force attacks every 45 secs, they can permanently self heal for alot, not just a few ticks of 50 hp per second, we are talking about 2K+ if properly geared over 3-4 secs. So Jugs not spec as tank are squishy, jugs spec as tank gets another ward with a 3 min cooldown, that last for 10-12 secs at most which only reduces damage taken by 40% for that duration, and the extra defense you get and the blade barrier shield proc are virtually worthless in PVP, with the probability of shield generators limited to white attacks and defense stats virtually useless because properly geared Pvpers rarely ever misses. This is not game balance, it's game breaking. Edited February 27, 2012 by bahugboto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teioh_White Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I've often wondered everyone who defends Juggs as fine can point to exactly that makes it so? As the post above pointed out, Sin's have a ton of advantages over a Jugg tank, with only leaps being the Jugg's saving grace. I've never played a Sin tank, but looking at the abilites and gear, it just looks better. Now I have played a PT tank (likely will fully replace my Jugg), and it just does everything better. Just the mere fact the PT can do substantial things from beyond melee range is a huge gap Jugg would need to be better up close to bridge. But, it's worse up close, too. It's just..not fair, and needs some work. Till then, i'll finish gearing up the PT, and I imagine once I get all his rakata and finish craft diving like I have on Jugg, it'll just be worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bahugboto Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I've often wondered everyone who defends Juggs as fine can point to exactly that makes it so? As the post above pointed out, Sin's have a ton of advantages over a Jugg tank, with only leaps being the Jugg's saving grace. I've never played a Sin tank, but looking at the abilites and gear, it just looks better. Now I have played a PT tank (likely will fully replace my Jugg), and it just does everything better. Just the mere fact the PT can do substantial things from beyond melee range is a huge gap Jugg would need to be better up close to bridge. But, it's worse up close, too. It's just..not fair, and needs some work. Till then, i'll finish gearing up the PT, and I imagine once I get all his rakata and finish craft diving like I have on Jugg, it'll just be worse. And it's always the Sin Tanks that rack up the high end DPS, the high end heals (with exception to healers), the highest kills, the best survivability and the most medals in upper tier warzone matches, and people said they are only overpowered in 1 on 1 situations but not group fights! Wrong and statistics have proven that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDFX Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) I thought the same on occasion OP. I am assuming that you are not “just” trolling. To make Jedi and Sith play like the movie and book descriptions of their abilities would render the other classes in game somewhat useless outside of support. I guess compromises were made to prevent that from happening but perhaps “too many” for truth to source material to hold true. According to Lucas the Star Wars property is all about the Jedi. Just ask Karen Travis… Only that won’t work for an MMO. Sure, I got some class gripes with them I could whine on. Times in leveling I feel they are too vulnerable to CC for a class set lacking so much CC in PVE and have some issues in building enough threat to hold attention vs AOE when you’ve so many trigger happy gun shooters playing. But I guess my biggest gripe is that knights lack enough variety and versatility in power set while requiring too much button binding and mashing for what they do in play. I mean just look at what a shadow or assassin can do and still tank or DPS… The Knight and Warrior are left with a grab, a jump, and 10 different kinds of saber whacking be they tank or DPS. Sure, a bit of hyperbole but the basic idea stands. They are kind of boring unless you like being a lawn mower with some grass to clip… But I wouldn’t call them wussies. They can take a beating and even survive it if a healer is near. Hmmm… Wait a minute. Should we just give sages and sorcerers a tank tree? I mean they can already do everything else but wear pants without grinding social points or space comms already. Edited February 27, 2012 by SDFX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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