It has been proven beyond a shred of doubt that Shadow Tanks can consistently score 600/100/100 on warzones if they bother trying, the nerf bat will have to come soon, if these game ever gets into it's competitive legs. more and more people will start complaining about this imbalance.

Agreed, i do not mean the entire shadow or assassin class, but the Shadow tank must be nerfed hard, there's many shadow players trying to defend the indefensible, but like i said it's only a matter of time, the sooner the better.

I have been arguing about this imbalance since the start, please visit my thread it has all the reasons i laid out how a Shadow is totally imbalanced, and help get the classes balanced. Please visit this thread and argue in favor of a nerf! http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3242693#post3242693

Enough i will post irrefutable prove of a Jedi shadow tank spec doing overpowered nonsense on a warzone, for more reference please refer to this thread, the evidence is now irrefutable and with screen shots to back them up this time. Go to this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=336999 Stats for a level 50 Valor 68 focus specced Guardian in battlemaster gear: http://imageshack.us/f/94/focus3x.jpg/ Stats for a pro level 19 assassin if scaled accordingly you can only imagine what that assassin could do at level 50 battlemaster geared: http://imageshack.us/f/23/swtor2012030111361568.jpg/ The top tier assassin have been consistently getting 600K-800K + damage in warzone, that has been confirmed, it is irrefutable, a fully tank specced ***/Shadow can do 600/100/100 in high tier warzones, that is overpowered x 2. The prove is now irrefutable, that Shadow/Assassin are completely overpowered, they are virtually able to do 600K dps 100k protection and 100k healing, in a single WZ match at battlemaster level, to those of you dirty cheaters in denial, be warned you cannot escape your fate forever, once the community pvp maturity catch up with the overal game imbalance, say bye bye to your overpowered Shadow.

1.44% net damage reduction, you must think we are all stupid you pulled that math formula out of your ***? So far the only people moaning about this thread are shadows and assassins, Just wait and see the nerf will come.

Pointless sarcastic post, do not addressed what have not been said already, please go back a reread the past few pages of this thread.

Let's not be silly now, no one spec for 3 leaps, also learn to read and comprehend my posts, i completely and fully understand the mechanics, let me correct my self in terms of shielding, i will not use the shield deflects now, i will just use shielded so anyone who lacks understanding will not be confused. A shadow can shield 2x more than a tank guardian could. Also zealous leap is a support skill and a ***** getaway skill. You don't need a one minute cooldown on sprint and stealth to make a ***** getaway for a shadow, you can use leap more often but doesn't change the fact that it's a support skill, don't need to overate it, it's useful, but it is what it is. Also Guardian leap specced to stun will inevitably grant your opponent more resolve than sometimes wanted, it's sometimes better to have the charge disrupt and not specced to stun at all, so as not to grant your opponent uneeded resolve especially with the short stun cooldown allowing you to maybe get a smash in but you will not have the insane amount of smash dmg you get spec in focus tree, so it's balanced out by the resolve you give your opponent and your lack of a follow up move to that 2 sec stun, don't overrate something. Like i said only newbies specced in 3 leaps, it's not viable as a pvp option with your dps and survivability gimped even further. Even if a guardian get up close they lack the follow up moves or combos to do much damage, and with the resolve patch, their combo of CCs which as a tank saving grace are pretty much made worthless and no longer spammable.

The mighty kinetic ward gives a shadow tank at least double the opportunities to deflect incoming damage than a guardian tank ever could, don't try to weasel out with another half baked theory. Shadow also have another edge, they can DPs and heal at the same time, they also have another edge, they can have complete force immunity for 24 secs out of 3 min, Shadow also have another advantage, they can permanent heal, a guardian can't with it's own abilities, all in all Shadow is a superior tank at least where PVP is concerned and not only that most of their damage especially the hard hitting ones comes through force attacks, while most of the guardians tank damage are physical. Add their DPS, force pull, stealth and sprint to the mix they their survivability at the hands of a pro pvper is unmatched.

You underestimate the strength of endure pain and invincible - No i think anyone who reads this would laugh his *** off at you, Endure is basically worthless for a sustain survivability which is what a melee guardian tank should be doing best, sustained survivability. Unless you are planning on making a quick getaway, or planning on surviving just a few seconds longer because once the duration of enure finish you are screwed. Without a healer as backup you will be playing a ***** tank with enure, I already done smash/sweep combo, they get owned by kites, they get owned especially by shadows who can totally mitigate the damage, Focus guardian are easier to earn medals in pvp but they are squishy and easily beatable nonetheless by anyone who knows how their rotation especially after the surge nerf, their element of surprise is even less. But back to the discussion about tanks I have given you a hundred reason why a Guardian tank is squishier than a shadow tank, the only reason you ever given me was to underrate the shadow's ability, overate the guardian ability with no stats to back you up. Just saying a guardian has heavy armor that's why will never fly.

We are always talking about endgame, please stick to endgame issues.

45 sec cooldown is not high cooldown.

Just remove the offensive post, but please don't close the thread. There is obviously very serious unresolved issues here, that must be looked at.

The more you attempt to play down the shadow ability the more pathetic the argument becomes, do not attempt to play down stuff, won't work with me or anyone knowledgeable about this. Guardian: Saber ward 12 seconds reduces whites by (50% but force by only 25%) Cooldown 3Min Endure pain 10 seconds (pretty much a useless crap ability to use midfights, somewhat useful when used alongside a medpack to increase health boost, but it's no permanent heal, and when the timer expires it takes away all the heals or health boost it innitially gives you, so basically a weak sauce ability especially when you have no healer nearby to back you up, no replacement for a proper heal whatsoever) Invincible 10 seconds(40% damage reduction to all) Another long cooldown with short duration ability that is proc once every 3 min. By the time the next proc arrive you have taken a 2.50 min beat down. Shadow Kinetic Ward (can and should be proc as soon as possible, will last indefinitely, will be extremely useful against any classes apart for sages, and some other classes depending on their build considering their constant shielding) Deflection 50% melee/range mitigation for 12 seconds, 2 minute cooldown ( very much a weaker cousin of Saber Ward but with a much faster cooldown) Resilience (100% tech/force mitigation for 6 seconds, 45 second cooldown) Another overpowered proc with an extremely short cooldown time, allowing you to proc it at crucial moments in PVP, that adds to 24 secs of complete force immunity over 3 Min, if this is not overpowered i don't know what is!) Battle Readiness (10% instant self heal + increased self heal for 15 seconds, 2 minute cooldown, use in conjunction with medpack and TT another unnecessary PEMANENT survivability proc) Harnessed Shadow(Heals 3% of Hp every tick using the right rotation giving the user a potential to heal for over 2.3k hp every 12 sec or so) Added to these already overpowering survivability tool vs a Guardian, the Shadow can out DPS a Guardian and kite a Guardian and certainly out tank a Guardian(which by rule of logic should be completely the opposite) and you are basing your weak arguments based on playing down a shadow potential?

Guardian have more mobility? Explain and don't give me force leap and charge nonsense. Juggs have better defensive cooldowns? explain - List me all the Guardian defensive abilities and tell me their cooldown and duration

It's a general consensus that the Guardian is the squishiest of all tank clases when all tree are specced to tank when you take their ability utilities into context. A shadow heals are better and more constant than a powertech if they go kinetic build, so you are wrong about the heals part, A guardian have more armor than a shadow, but their only saving grace is 2 shields that proc for 10 secs every 3 min, and no permanent healing abilities whatsoever(with the exception of Guadian leap which is weak), added to that the worst dps output among all tanking class and melee, so it's obvious a Guardian needs a buff, a shadow a nerf to bring it down to the level of powertech, the nerf should come in small increments, like nerfing harnessed shadow so that it can be interupted and reducing the amount healed from 3-2%. It's an entirely legit argument. A tanking Guardian can be buffed by instead of extending the enure last longer, make enure heals last permanently as long as it's not over the max hp when it expires, reducing the CD time of both shields. That would be a fair start and we can work from there for better improved balance.

I can say the same for power-tech or Jug, in that gear the tank will do absolutely no dmg, lol, if a shadow in tanking gear can do absolutely no damage, than a jug in tanking gear can do no damage, like i said your arguments do not hold water, because you are very selective, every class have a choice to make between survivability, dps or balance, and Shadow is no different but they are imbalanced, even in the highest tanking gear they can still do all the CCs and heals and out DPS and Out tank a tanking Jug anytime, due to the utility of their spells. I have never ever played an MMO where ranges out tanks a melee, this one have 2 ranges out tanking a melee in PVP. Speaks alot for game balancing

It's obvious you are not anywhere near endgame yet, an endgame gear will up your shield chance to around 60% and absorb to 40%, that is a big difference and a game changer, so as i said if you think it's that insignificant, let's remove it altogether, as a shadow tank you have enough survivability with heals, force mitigation and another proc shield ability + your slow ccs kites and other utilities to survive, so if it's insignificant lets petition to remove kinetic ward altogether and just see how much of a difference a 60% chance to absorb with 40% damage mitigation is.

there's plenty of things that needs fixing, like limited crafting options, limited character tweaking options, if you want to see fantastic character customization and tweaking look at anarchy online, feels abit like a wow clone, with no open world immersive feel - I think this is one of the main game breaker, if they are going to implement an expansion in the future it better have huge open worlds where everyone have to go to and leave the current tiny instanced world mechanics behind. Last but not least, a totally imbalanced PVP experience where some classes are overpowered and some classes are completely broken, and yet they haven't fix this for 2 months, so yeah, minor fixes and adding a brand new instance won't cut it if the core game issues are not fixed.

Juggs and snipers need buffs, juggs need a heavy revamp to their defensive viability and both need more force attacks because the current balance damage mechanics and mitigation types completely throw the game off balance but Shadow need a dead serious nerf, i know a broken mechanic when i see one. Like i said harnessed shadow must be nerfed completely, remove the invulnerability to interrupts, reduce heals from 3-2%, that's a good start. Next since the round the clock shielding of Kinetic ward is so bad like some of these folks claim, we remove that as well or set it's cooldown to 1 minute or something, and see how these same players cry over how unbelievably good having a shield up that could mitigate white damage almost 60% of the time is. Anyone who think this is not one of the most powerful shields in the game in combination with force invulnerability is lying to himself. It's a constant shield and since it's so bad lets make it have a minute cooldown and see how you cope without it. The only class that i could see giving a Sin tank a run for it's money are the dps Sorc class because virtually all it's damage are force attacks. But still a shadow could probably still handily win with the right strats. And it's always viable for DPS kinetic to use guard, only a rather newbie player will think otherwise, not being harsh with you but the 3 protection medals are almost always in the bag for a top tier warzone shadow tank, the 50k is rarer because the shadow tanks are too busy chasing their dps medal, and healing medal to bother with guarding all the time, besides ruining their stealh.

Another denial thread, try fighting on switsure PVP warzones where the pvp is at a very high level and see which class ends up with over 12 medal and highest kill ratio most of the time then come back and talk, anyways i can punch holes into every one of your flawed, and bias argument playing down the shadow's abilities, but i have already done so many times in my previous post, and dont need to do so again.

You can either gear for more dps or gear for more def, that's your choice, a guardian have the same choice, no difference, the only difference is a shadow is a superior standalone tank with better survivability, not to mention self heals. The class especially the one specced to harnessed shadow has too many useful utilities, in addition to the already overpowering useful specs compared to many of the useless or underwhelming abilities in the Juggernaut spec, either that or the rest of the class in the game needs serious retooling. I am saying that nerfing a shadow instead of radically buffing other classes will give the developers more room to maneuver in the future. For one instance, the heals from TT have to be reduced, the amont of reduction from kinetic ward should be reduced, or halved, the ability to resist interrupts from Harnessed shadow should be removed altogether, even that is just a start, more tweaks will probably be necessary as times go by, but these simple nerfs will at least get the shadow closer to balance, they will still be an overpowering tank/dps with too many useful utilities.

We are talking about warzones with end game gears here.

Every attack, when you blatantly lie or exaggerate don't even bother to post, some of the Guardians and operatives most damaging abilities are white attacks, anyone apart from sorcs/sins relies quite heavily on white attacks and i am not even bothered to argue with you about spamming, stop spamming this post with invectives.

How is proccing a shield every 12 secs hard? Just because it takes one more click to have your quick cool-down shield arsenal proc actually that hard? Congrats you mastered the art of shield spamming and now awarded with the ultimate tank. Is Proccing Force immunity as you see a focus user pumped up with singularity is hard? hell you don't even need to proc any shield because you are virtually kiting the whole time and while healing your own *** the whole time, the shields for a shadow are just extra gravy to add to their already insane tanking abilities. A guardian with both shield ward have 3 mins cooldown on both abilities, that will hardly last them through a fight, not to mention 10-12secs duration(based on gears no one use) you are pretty much an unshielded junk the entire time, waiting to be kited all the way, and force freeze do not help much when your enemy can slow you at all times. Whatever you say a shadow is able to dole out 400K+ damage in pvp with ease along with 100K+ heals in warzones, if that doesn't scream overpowered, i don't know what is.

By the time someone pushed you back(if they have the CD down) you already gotten at least 3k 2 ticks damage back with 1k hp healed, with interrupt being instantaneous and a short cooldown, it would have helped somewhat against an already overpowered ability, not to mention if your resolve is maxed, there is jack **** you can do against it, but that's just part of the problem, the ever bigger underlying problem is that the Shadow is a superior tank to the juggernaut with or without heals, a far better DPS and lock on DPS at that, never-mind that if the Assassin decides to kite, you are very much screwed out of a a hit every few seconds on top of the already huge dps differential. Add stealth, sprint, pull to the mix and you got a recipe that screams total imbalanced, as I said, it matters little in the future, because as PVP gets more competitive like in WOW, the imbalance should eventually be ironed out, like a Wow warrior that was insanely gimped in the beginning and buffed up later, I just preferred it happen sooner.