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Kill trading in ilum: Valor exploit

phuxwel

By phuxwel
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XParoleX

XParoleX

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It says they don't encourage it but then asks for player names so it sounds like it's a little more than simply discouraged.

 

If they did more than simply discourage it they would loose A Lot of their subs. Fine roll back my valor I still have my BM and all my gear. All the people that exploited this right after the llum patch when they were camping the republic bases never got in trouble or lost valor so how can you now?

 

Give us a real pvp system and this wouldn't take place anymore. Give us an incentive to protect our bases and to take the enemy base make it real world pvp! Until then you will see this happen over and over on every server!

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Sconnoll

Sconnoll

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in any sport where not too many money are involved people can easily buy a match just paying some players... it's wrong everybody knows it but if the league is "unimportant" enough it's not even worth the money to investigate it.

 

I personally blame the people rather then blame BW... I mean you have to be really a ****** person if you think it's all right because they don't go through the process of punishing you.

 

"they don't ban me, so it's all right" mentality it's the worst human being possible

 

next it's to steal a candy to an autistic kid. he won't accuse you then probably it's all right

 

^^ agree 100% Sad state of affairs...

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Juliek

Juliek

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I feel in addition to other comments for improvement, that the area of Illum is simply too big (or too long). If it was more circular, a little smaller, and had capture points that were less "linear", there would be more forced interactions. Also, maybe an incentive for capturing (winning) illum could be that boxes are only lootable by the winning faction or something. Or maybe that a lootable area in the center would give you the daily amount that you need for the day, and maybe a nice chunk of valor too. Then at the top of every hour (or half hour) it would reset and people could join in a couple of raid groups to try and win for their faction. Also, to prevent players from benefiting without having helped, it could be that only players that were on Illum and dealing dmg/healing would be able to loot the center cache. Just an idea, with im sure many flaws, lol.

 

Edit: I will admit, I am thinking a little about Tol Barad in WoW, even though we know its flawed. But I feel its better than what we have on Illum at the moment!

Edited by Juliek
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JAVAjedi

JAVAjedi

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in any sport where not too many money are involved people can easily buy a match just paying some players... it's wrong everybody knows it but if the league is "unimportant" enough it's not even worth the money to investigate it.

 

I personally blame the people rather then blame BW... I mean you have to be really a ****** person if you think it's all right because they don't go through the process of punishing you.

 

"they don't ban me, so it's all right" mentality it's the worst human being possible

 

next it's to steal a candy to an autistic kid. he won't accuse you then probably it's all right

 

Judgmental much? Seriously, I will confess to kill trading to get my dailies done. It's either that or go on the speeder marry-go-round for 4+ hours (depending on how many other imps are there doing the same thing) collecting armaments. Because it's not like there are any pubs out there that I can kill "honestly" (as in not kill trade) due to the sever population/faction imbalance. The system is broken regardless, I just use the method that reaps the most benefits for my time. And guess what? Bioware condones it because everything is "working as intended." If it were against the rules, I wouldn't do it, but guess what? It isn't, so it's technically not cheating (ironically, I still feel like a cheat after I do it though:jawa_frown:). I don't like it as much as the next guy, but if we don't get the dailies done, we don't get the gear. If we don't get the gear, how are we supposed to compete with elite pre-mades (who, by the way, already did the kill-trade rush to battlemaster) in actual war zones? After all, that's where the real pvp is at anyway....

 

If Bioware actually comes out and says "Yes! Kill trading is an exploit and is, therefore, against the rules" then I'll stop doing it. Hell, I'll even take a valor rollback (even though I won't be happy about it because they should have clarified this earlier) with relatively little complaint. But they haven't, and the system is still broken....

Edited by JAVAjedi
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lexiekaboom

lexiekaboom

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The thing I don't understand is...

 

The argument that this is ok goes something like:

 

(1) BW sucks and PVP is broken and sucks.

 

(2) Because of that I am totally justified in getting valor and gear in whatever cheesy (cheating) way I can.

 

(3) So that I can use that (PVP spec'd) gear to play more of the PVP that sucks.

 

Makes perfect sense to me.

 

I can help you with that. The argument is in fact this

 

1) PVP WARZONES are freaking awesome, I love them and would like to keep playing them.

 

2) BW sucks and made it so that in order get gear for warzones I have to PVP in Ilum, which is broken and sucks

 

3) Because of that I am totally justified in completing my daily any way I can

 

4) So that I can use that PVP gear to play more warzones, which are awesome.

 

Hope that helps

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Talcyndl

Talcyndl

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Ilum's objectives are awful. Its design is awful. Playing there is awful.

 

God forbid we, the players, entertain ourselves or get off of it earlier.

 

Why are you on it at all if it's so awful? Just stick to WZ's. You can get your valor and equipment there. If you want to earn it faster, do it the non-cheese way of actually fighting Imps. If you did that (and more people did) than Ilum open world PVP would actually be fun.

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Talcyndl

Talcyndl

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THERE IS NOTHING ELSE TO DO!

 

You and the Bloodline folks CHOOSE to kill trade rather than real PVP. You have the people, it would be easy enough to break up into a few OPS groups and have battles across the whole map. And it would be FUN!

 

On two occasions I have been in OPS group involved in actual PVP against the Imps and had that fighting prematurely ended because you and others decided to kill trade. Oh, and neither was on a Sunday. Both times I had to drop group and leave Ilum - or be forced to participate (or simply watch) the mass kill trading. :(

 

I know you have been a BM since before I hit Level 50 and even got to Ilum. I also know several on the Republic side who had much less valor when I first got out there. And now those folks have rocketed through the Valor 50's, and are BMs.

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Talcyndl

Talcyndl

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Seems like all of you 'Bioware sez its okay to cheat' people were wrong and that screenshot everyone claims as gospel is... er... not.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=329020&highlight=kill+trading

 

 

So they contradict themselves. Do they even know if its ok?

 

Also all that says is they don't encourage it. :p

 

One is an in game ticket response to a ticket we can't read. And the response is barely in English.

 

The other is an official response on the boards by an actual developer.

 

I just recently got a response to an in game ticket saying that it is an exploit.

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phuxwel

phuxwel

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Glad this made your sad little day so much brighter. I guess you're hoping all the pvpers on your server get banned, so that you can rule the new 50s and live up to your "best healer on server" claim?

 

Nope actually I hope no one gets banned. I would settle for not letting it happen again. And rollbacks would be nice, but too much to ask for

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Talcyndl

Talcyndl

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2) BW sucks and made it so that in order get gear for warzones I have to PVP in Ilum, which is broken and sucks

 

 

No you don't. WZ's give valor and equipment as well.

 

Would throwing WZ's be acceptable too? Or your only allowed to cheat in the area you think sucks?

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Maxil

Maxil

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You can not take the word of CSR's as end-all be-all facts. BW has turned around on other similar screenshots posted and said the CSR's are wrong in prior issues. One CSR will say it's an exploit another will say it's fine to do. The CSR's in game are contracted and not an official part of bioware. Until BW comes out and actually says something themselves than we don't know what they believe

 

Typical BW fashion is just to hard program some kind of fix rather than take a stance on the issue. We shall see. But as it stands there have been no outcrys of people stating they/friends were banned from it, so I don't think CSR's have been told to take action on reported/seen farmers.

Edited by Maxil
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SpyleL

SpyleL

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But what about that other screenshot of the CSR who said it was ok? Even though I firmly believe he simply misunderstood the situation based on his reply, it can easily be taken as them being told it is acceptable.

 

I'm not sure "actions will be taken against their accounts" is entirely fair, even though what they were doing was an obvious abuse of the system.

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Talcyndl

Talcyndl

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Oh, and to the extent my opinion matters...

 

I don't even care if there is any punishment or Valor rollback.

 

Actually, I hope there isn't any - at least until a clear warning has been given.

 

I just want it to stop so that Ilum doesn't suck. At least on the low population servers, I imagine there are a good number of new 50s coming up that might actually give us enough people to have more dynamic and active PVP.

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phuxwel

phuxwel

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Glad this made your sad little day so much brighter. I guess you're hoping all the pvpers on your server get banned, so that you can rule the new 50s and live up to your "best healer on server" claim?

 

Nope actually I hope no one gets banned. I would settle for not letting it happen again. And rollbacks would be nice, but too much to ask for

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JAVAjedi

JAVAjedi

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I can help you with that. The argument is in fact this

 

1) PVP WARZONES are freaking awesome, I love them and would like to keep playing them.

 

2) BW sucks and made it so that in order get gear for warzones I have to PVP in Ilum, which is broken and sucks

 

3) Because of that I am totally justified in completing my daily any way I can

 

4) So that I can use that PVP gear to play more warzones, which are awesome.

 

Hope that helps

 

For the most part this is correct (at least in my opinion). I just emphasized the "any way I can" part because I wanted to clarify that point. I will complete my daily "any way I can" that does not break the terms of service. If a Bioware representative actually comes out and says kill trading is against the rules, then we should stop doing it. But they haven't....

 

And no, the word of customer service is not gospel because they're contracted (outsourced), and they've contradicted themselves on more than one occasion. Now, if a developer says something about it on the other hand....

Edited by JAVAjedi
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XParoleX

XParoleX

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You and the Bloodline folks CHOOSE to kill trade rather than real PVP. You have the people, it would be easy enough to break up into a few OPS groups and have battles across the whole map. And it would be FUN!

 

On two occasions I have been in OPS group involved in actual PVP against the Imps and had that fighting prematurely ended because you and others decided to kill trade. Oh, and neither was on a Sunday. Both times I had to drop group and leave Ilum - or be forced to participate (or simply watch) the mass kill trading. :(

 

I know you have been a BM since before I hit Level 50 and even got to Ilum. I also know several on the Republic side who had much less valor when I first got out there. And now those folks have rocketed through the Valor 50's, and are BMs.

 

I'm not sure who you are, but the only two times I have trade 1 was at the spur of the moment the other was organized so not sure if you were imagining or thought I was somewhere I wasn't.

 

Second: Monday - Saturday we do fight there are no truces and I have brought battle to Ilum a couple times. We do fight there and it is a normal area for the most part.

Edited by XParoleX
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Talcyndl

Talcyndl

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There are constant truces. The Bloodline folks who organize these (with your participation on the Imp side) have repeatedly asked which Imps we're fighting because certain Imp guilds are allies. Of course, the truces break down and there is some real PVP for a while. Then a kill trading session will be organized.
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Metteu

Metteu

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Hi Luked <3.

 

So anyways I am in that picture and yes I hit BM before our server ever started doing this (Both repubs and imps on our server can verify this)!

 

Why do I join and participate in this you might ask, simple because THERE IS NOTHING ELSE TO DO! We are an extremely small server and Warzone Q's are long. We kill each other legit in llum all week except 2 times we have done this on Sunday that I have seen.

 

So if you get your way Luked and they ban everyone who was there you just lost 60 people and these 60 people are the most active on our server so now enjoy NEVER getting a warzone, flashpoints and running around the fleet by yourself.

 

Ban me there is nothing left to do on the game anyways, besides run warzones when I'm bored and a once a week operation. I enjoy the game and plan on sticking around to see it hopefully evolve into something fun, but if they ban people for this then so be it they ruined their own game.

 

Fact is BW has made llum this way and given us nothing better to do with our time, don't hate the players hate the system.

 

Relic~

 

Hi Relic,

 

Its Metteu, i am fully on Lukeds side with this whole Kill trading, lets organzie full out wars, not this oh leave 1 rezzer for each side and AOE the group down, its such BS i know cause i was there when it first started a month ago, its not something new the past few sundays its been going on for weeks.

 

Lets make ilum like it should be, like WoWs Wintergrasp, or Tol Barad, a real actual PvP zone to go out and actually have fun playing

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Talcyndl

Talcyndl

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And in the interest of disclosure (and also showing the active OPS group that turned into a kill trading session based on an agreement between Relic and Banksy).

 

http://i.imgur.com/J6tV5.jpg

 

To be clear, we had a group who was outnumbered at mid. We decided to split up and take bases in the hope the Imps would chase us and we could have some nice battles at the other bases. This is pretty clearly how the map is designed to operate and is fun when both sides play (and no one organizes a kill trade session in the middle).

 

Right before the screenshot, after we captured north and imp base and were on the way back to central, we got the "spotted" warning for at least one Imp at northern assault. People thought we might actually have some battles. But, then...[see the screenshot]

 

Relic, you may only participate in one a week (or whatever), but they happen all the time. And the spillover from them makes central into the Paris Peace talks where everyone has their own expectations about what's "cool" and who is fair game. Much simpler if we just fight.

 

How about we try just fighting and see how that works? :)

 

If one side has huge numbers they can hold central to farm crates and then the other side will attack bases. The extras at center can then chase down the side capturing bases. THAT WOULD BE FUN.

 

Eventually, the side with numbers will farm out their dailies at central and presumably the other side would be able to retake center. BLAH, BLAH.....

Edited by Talcyndl
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