1.1.5 - death of rarity and achievements?!

[Jamus_Divinus]

The Titanic took about 3 to 4 hours to sink (depending on what report you read ) , in shipping terms thats an achievement The Lusitania took 18 minutes.

 

The Orca took 14mins (of film time)

[DieAlteHexe]

I believe you mate.

 

All I speak for is my server (Nightmare Lands) and my guild (Dark Legion). I can use those numbers to show the health of only my server/guild. I can't speak for the game as a whole as I don't have access to those figures.

 

My current (and third) server is doing fine. One thing I have noted is that a fair bunch of people moved around the first couple weeks of the game. I landed on the highest pop. server and HATED it. It was like ravening beasts in areas and people were just rude as hell. Social my arse. LOL!

 

So moved. Second server as laggy as all get out for me.

 

Tried a third. It's fine. Lots of people but not so many that we all go "Lord of the Flies" on each other, no lag (odd that) and I'm chugging along.

 

Point being, I know many, many others who bounced around before "finding a home", which could exacerbate that "omg, everyone's leaving" perception. Along with the usual attrition rate of a new MMO, subs are down but they are nowhere near low enough for all the doom and gloom predictions.

[Mephismo]

As soon as companies realized they could not only make a profit from gamers, but become filthy rich off of us, the "ZoMg special uber leet lolhardcore" content stopped.

 

Personally, I haven't seen NEAR the crybabying for this game that I have seen for others. People don't seem to care about the current endgame (the lack thereof) or what color crystal anyone has.

 

Hell.. if they offered everything on vendors that was available through every type of "endgame" (PvE/PvP/Crafting/Dailies/etc)... who cares?

 

They could attach a title to the achievements of doing it the "hard" way. They could give the title "Laziest of Carebears" to people who just buy it. I know I'd wear the title proudly... along with THOUSANDS of others.

 

It's a video game. Modern developers realize that gaming is a hobby, it's not a lifestyle (for 97% of gamers.. and yup, statistics online are always true), and one that most people do for fun. Healthy people feel accomplished in real life and don't need to parade around in something purple to think they completed some hard task.

 

The shed they built in the backyard or alternator that was replaced in their 2002 Mercury Cougar (Look it up.. it ain't easy) means more than killing pixels over and over to get a drop.

 

I used to spend 40+ hours a week raiding, farming for repair bill/mats, crafting for raid nights, officer meetings.. etc... etc... etc..

 

That was before I had children, a wife, a college degree, and a career. Sure, I could still be all LOLHARDCORE and get things done, but it's just not important... just as it's not important for a majority of gamers.

 

The loud minority that cares about accomplishing something in a video game should keep looking. SWTOR will never have what you are looking for, nor will any other mass marketed MMO. Your hardmodes will be nerfed, your gear will be had by all, your titles mean little when 6 months later, people solo content to get them.

 

MMOs, by design, are meant to be enjoyed by as many people as possible (unless your market is Asian only, or it's EvE online). Why would companies spend so much money for content that few, comparatively, will experience? Blizzard tried to go back to LOLHARDCORE. They were rewarded with less than 6% of players actually doing it. They lost millions of subscribers. They backpedaled somewhat. They got subscribers back... somewhat.

 

People spend so much time ranting and raving about a video game... jeebus. If it's important enough to post about, and you don't think it will change, just quit the game. There is no contract that forces anyone to continue playing something they dislike.

 

This about sums it up.

I doubt the OP even read it.

All he wants to do is bang his own drum like most posters here.

[Valkirus]

It's not just those changes but they are part of my disappointment. If Bioware does implement all of this with patch 1.1.5 (may it be temporarily) they show, that they do not give a damn on those who actually enjoy spending hours in the game raiding or playing PVP.

 

Oh and would you mind giving me one reason for me to change my "high horse" mentality? If I recall correctly "high horse" mentality is what allowed the whole technical revolution of the past 100 years. Always being happy with what you get might be easier, but does not get you anywhere.

 

Ok...one good reason....if you donot have a "high horse" mentality, changes such as these will not matter to you as long as you had fun getting them before this change. Which in turn will help you enjoy the game more on what you experenced rather than how others have got them.

This is a temp. change and honestly, our expectations sometimes exceed what the results are.

[MackumDog]

Population is a complex situation, first of all people work and go to school, then when the weather warms it is common for normal people to get out.

 

In the UK the weather today is bright and as winter draws to a close most people will be out, then at about 3pm an International Rugby Match England V Wales kicks off and a lot of people will watch this. so I would assume numbers would drop,

 

On another day and specially during dark cold winters most people will sit in , and look to do something other than watch TV, so populations will incrrease.

 

Like a lot of things, its a complex subject, with people levaing the game and coming back all the time,

[Cyclonit]

Ok...one good reason....if you donot have a "high horse" mentality, changes such as these will not matter to you as long as you had fun getting them before this change. Which in turn will help you enjoy the game more on what you experenced rather than how others have got them.

This is a temp. change and honestly, our expectations sometimes exceed what the results are.

 

I get what you are saying but I think we just are two different kinds of guys. You might still be happy playing this game in a few months and I won't judge you. Hell, if you find a game which does make you enjoy your free time I'll be one of the last people to judge you for spending your money on that game.

But over the years of my existence I learned that tolerating bad circumstances is not the right path. Those changes might not be bad for you bad they most certainly are for a lot of players and if those players do not want to loose a game which they could enjoy if Bioware would do things differently, let them speak.

 

The past 4 years I constantly visited the forums, made suggestions, supported suggestions I liked and gave my opinion about suggestions I did not like. What I see now is a game which is fun but does not contain anything I "fought" for.

[WickedDjinn]

Who cares?

 

It's a game. Meaningless beyond a few minutes of entertainment. If this bothers you its a good sign you need a life.

[Divona]

It's not just those changes but they are part of my disappointment. If Bioware does implement all of this with patch 1.1.5 (may it be temporarily) they show, that they do not give a damn on those who actually enjoy spending hours in the game raiding or playing PVP.

 

Oh and would you mind giving me one reason for me to change my "high horse" mentality? If I recall correctly "high horse" mentality is what allowed the whole technical revolution of the past 100 years. Always being happy with what you get might be easier, but does not get you anywhere.

 

 

Thats you opinion, i see they do care ALOT about player base who going to stay here for long run and will continue keeping subs up.

 

Top of that they saw THOUSANDS posts about white crystal and the finale that crushed the hopes. I will not even speak about purple color dissapointment here for so many.

 

 

Things looking good, well done Bioware.

[LogicalPremise]

Well, that's vastly amusing.

 

So, basically, the argument is since casuals (who won't ever raid, thus never having to deal with the psycho bugs and frustrations that goes into getting this gear) are fine with it, it should be okay, and anyone who disagrees is an immature special snowflake?

 

It's nice to know that , once again, that people can't see the forest for the trees.

 

Every "end-game" style achievement that is hard to get to provides you something to do at 50. The more of that content that becomes available without any sort of work , the less there is to do at 50. The argument being put forth, namely, "I shouldn't have to raid to get the rewards designed for those who raid" doesn't even stand up on basic logical merits, but it is particularly asinine to imply that this change is somehow good.

 

I haven't seen the changes myself and I have no information if they will go live like this or not. I suspect many casuals will have a hard time pulling together a million credits to get some of the gear, but some people won't. So it is not exactly "handing it out". That isn't the point, either.

 

The point is that improvements to the game should be based on actually improving things. Some will argue that providing alternative methods to receive rewards is an improvement . . . but if that's at the cost of enraging your so-called "hardcore" players, then someone needs to carefully examine just how many people are going to be pissed off by the changes.

[Cyclonit]

Who cares?

 

It's a game. Meaningless beyond a few minutes of entertainment. If this bothers you its a good sign you need a life.

 

Geeez... Let me guess: You got absolutely no hobbies you actually care for? I do have a life. I'm going to University, have quite a bunch of friends which I meet on a regular basis etc. However I do have a second set of friends which I meet online and having fun with those is not a bit less entertaining then doing stuff with my RL-friends.

[MackumDog]

People are forgetting if they make something available at low level they will be replacing the high level achievement with something else.

[Mrs_Murder]

I've got to say, I don't understand the whine. And I AM one of these "LOLHARDCORE" people who whine about how this game caters to casuals.

 

The vendors are temporary and an attempt to fix the inflation prior to the crewskill changes in 1.2. Is that so hard to understand? We need a money sink right now or crafted orange armor with an augment slot will go for 1 mill, if not more, on GTN.

 

And I even HAVE some of these "uber rare ***!" items, and I don't care about them being available from vendors. 2.5mill seems perfectly reasonable for these items.

 

Think with your brain before you rage on forums about something that isn't rage-worthy. Thanks.

[Valkirus]

I get what you are saying but I think we just are two different kinds of guys. You might still be happy playing this game in a few months and I won't judge you. Hell, if you find a game which does make you enjoy your free time I'll be one of the last people to judge you for spending your money on that game.

But over the years of my existence I learned that tolerating bad circumstances is not the right path. Those changes might not be bad for you bad they most certainly are for a lot of players and if those players do not want to loose a game which they could enjoy if Bioware would do things differently, let them speak.

 

The past 4 years I constantly visited the forums, made suggestions, supported suggestions I liked and gave my opinion about suggestions I did not like. What I see now is a game which is fun but does not contain anything I "fought" for.

 

Then as long as you continue to find the game fun, all is well. We should play any video game to have fun....not to feel specail. You are right, we are different I suppose. You are not the only one who has seen some changes they do not like. I could make a long list now of things I donot like. But this change is really not that big of deal and it helps others get some stuff they otherwise would have no chance to get because of thier play times, etc. This helps them enjoy the game more too. I have no issues with that.

[Gohlar]

Then as long as you continue to find the game fun, all is well. We should play any video game to have fun....not to feel specail. You are right, we are different I suppose. You are not the only one who has seen some changes they do not like. I could make a long list now of things I donot like. But this change is really not that big of deal and it helps others get some stuff they otherwise would have no chance to get because of thier play times, etc. This helps them enjoy the game more too. I have no issues with that.

 

To me it suggests BW knows there is nothing to do so they are working with what they can. I don't really care about light saber colors, I just think it's a bad sign when they start trivializing rare rewards so soon.

[Cyclonit]

@Gohlar and TKMaster

Could you maybe use the PM function for your little ***** fight? There exist people who actually care about the actual discussion in this thread.

[Gohlar]

@Gohlar and TKMaster

Could you maybe use the PM function for your little ***** fight? There exist people who actually care about the actual discussion in this thread.

 

It's ok, I won't respond anymore.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Gohlar

[TheSwamper]

 

Every "end-game" style achievement that is hard to get to provides you something to do at 50. The more of that content that becomes available without any sort of work , the less there is to do at 50. The argument being put forth, namely, "I shouldn't have to raid to get the rewards designed for those who raid" .

 

 

Your premise fails because it assumes that if the only way to get something is through raiding (work, lol), then people will do that. I can point you to several players who would sooner quit than raid.

 

Providing something to do at 50 is a good idea. Putting desirable rewards behind only ONE form of game content is not.

[Divona]

I've got to say, I don't understand the whine. And I AM one of these "LOLHARDCORE" people who whine about how this game caters to casuals.

 

The vendors are temporary and an attempt to fix the inflation prior to the crewskill changes in 1.2. Is that so hard to understand? We need a money sink right now or crafted orange armor with an augment slot will go for 1 mill, if not more, on GTN.

 

And I even HAVE some of these "uber rare ***!" items, and I don't care about them being available from vendors. 2.5mill seems perfectly reasonable for these items.

 

Think with your brain before you rage on forums about something that isn't rage-worthy. Thanks.

 

 

Yup thats what i first thought when i saw patch notes. Bioware knows how much credits are ingame and this is perfect way to sink all those credits who abused the pre nerf slicing. Also world loot boxes that were so high respawn rate that even low level people went to ilum to farm them.

 

It is funny to see all those "achivers" rage here, really think more out of box.

[Gohlar]

Yup thats what i first thought when i saw patch notes. Bioware knows how much credits are ingame and this is perfect way to sink all those credits who abused the pre nerf slicing. Also world loot boxes that were so high respawn rate that even low level people went to ilum to farm them.

 

It is funny to see all those "achivers" rage here, really think more out of box.

 

You know, that's an interesting thought. Still, it is annoying to accomplish something and have the reward trivialized.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Parali
reply to bad quote

[well]

What's the point of playing the game for you than?

What's the point of subscribing?

If you can get best items in a second you ding lvl50?

What for will you go to Operations or hunt World Bosses? Or play hard mode flashpoints?

 

That is on you.Your choice.My game is 1-50.I gear my chrs from my crafters for the most part.This game has more people worried about what other people have or how they play than any I have seen before.

[Warjhinn]

Sky_walkerPL;3090513]

 

Looks like Bioware plans to screw everyone who achieved something.

 

 

Not everyone... I achieved quite a few things in the game that won't be changed by this patch.

 

 

Now everyone will get it for 25k

 

Ok... ummm sooo... you feel cheated cause people will get it with less effort than you??? That is the natural evolution of any game over time.

 

I took part in Ops god-knows how many times and still don't have cyan color crystal,

 

Translation - "I don't have it yet, so no one else should get it until I have it"

 

 

I won't even say anything about introducing more black-core sabers

 

Soooo.... why did you continue with a whole paragraph addressing it?

 

Now all the ppl who care nothing about lore will run with this joke in Star Wars looking like a training saber being absolutely sure it makes them "l33t" and "special" cause they preordered (ps. it's not about being jelaous - I got preorder, I got rakata saber, it doesn't change anything) or bought stuff for 25k at vendor

 

Translation - "I am my own special snowflake. It's not fair that other paople can be 'LEET' before I am 'LEET'"

 

I actually think that the last part was probably the true cause of your frustration.

[Gohlar]

 

Ok... ummm sooo... you feel cheated cause people will get it with less effort than you??? That is the natural evolution of any game over time.

 

 

While this is a completely valid point, it usually doesn't happen this quickly.

[MackumDog]

You know, that's an interesting thought. Still, it is annoying to accomplish something and have the reward trivialized.

 

 

 

I recommend not talking to him. Worked great for me.

 

I agree, to spend weeks working on something to find it can be bought later is a pain, but the problem is you have to keep the weak players subscriptions. I am not talking casual because casual players do get what they want, The sort of player they panda too is the type who wont put the effort in,those that generally go to gold suppliers.

 

The only hope I have is that as they degrade one item,they usually add something new

[TheOnlyKyrenS]

Ok... I've seen new vendors in public test server for 1.1.5 and I'm seriously terrified buy what's about to come.

 

Looks like Bioware plans to screw everyone who achieved something.

 

See what we get:

- Magenta crystal schematics almost free from vendor.

- Very rare Ops speeders for 1m from vendor

- PvP and daily speeders for 1M+ from vendor

- VIP speeder from vendor

- all rare color crystals, including crystals from Karraga drops PvE sabers almost free from vendor. Or at higher cost, but still only credits - no achievement involved.

 

What the heck?!

 

My guild downed world bosses about 20 times to get specific magenta crystals schematics. It was a huge achievement engaging guild multiple times on raids always requiring our artificer to come online when we groupped and it took few weeks to get it.

Now everyone will get it for 25k

 

I took part in Ops god-knows how many times and still don't have cyan color crystal, and each time I see player with PvE saber using it I see someone who achieved something I thrive for (ps. Screw the rakata black-core saber, it's a joke) - now you plan to give it away for some spare cash I earn by selling one high-grade item on GTN.

 

I won't even say anything about introducing more black-core sabers, especially for lvl50 players which is A HUGE IMMERSION BREAKER. Now all the ppl who care nothing about lore will run with this joke in Star Wars looking like a training saber being absolutely sure it makes them "l33t" and "special" cause they preordered (ps. it's not about being jelaous - I got preorder, I got rakata saber, it doesn't change anything) or bought stuff for 25k at vendor

 

Ps. Before someone pop-up telling that it won't hit the live servers - give me a quote. Otherwise it's just random opinion.

 

REMARKS:

- It's not about "feeling special" - it's about having an objective in game. And keeping things people worked for worthwhile. And having the point in keeping subscription instead of just getting all the stuff from vendor in moment one hits lvl50.

- Patch 1.1.5 won't make your crafting useful. 1.2 will but we aren't talking about that patch. Also: The artificers get screwed most of all by 1.1.5 cause we won't need you anymore after 1.2 - all the crystals majority of people thrive for will be handled to us from vendors already.

- I'm a casual player, not "hardcore raider" as majority of people falsely assume here. And as casual I ask for keeping achievement items as an achievements instead of give-away stuff

 

Blame the entitlement generation. And don't forget. Everything in the PTS is NOT final. It's even says so on the top of the patch notes. But yea, if they did implement this into the actual game, I'll be pissed. Good thing it's on'y till 1.2 though.

Edited February 25, 2012 by TheOnlyKyrenS

[Jamuro]

have you guys considered, that those vendors wont make it live?

 

Probably only there for test purposes to give players a chance to see the stuff on the testserver?