Bovive Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 My guild downed world bosses about 20 times to get specific magenta crystals schematics. It was a huge achievement engaging guild multiple times on raids always requiring our artificer to come online when we groupped and it took few weeks to get it. Now everyone will get it for 25k Each schematic on the test server is 250k, not 25k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) Attitudes like this ruin communities, players more obsessed with others and less about themselves. Entitled has nothing to do with it, show me 1 single post where players have asked for what BW is intending to offer. Reactions like yours and others are in fact displying attitudes of entitlement. I agree. When I read the first reply back on page 1 (I think) saying this is the result of casual players feeling entitled and complaining that they can't have this stuff, my first thought was, "Odd. I'm a forum lurker, and I've never seen a thread started by a casual player demanding this." I don't think I've ever seen a casual player - ever - say, "I'm entitled to this gear and you are not." I see that constantly from the hardcore players. The closest thread I can remember to what they're claiming is a casual player posted a request to be able to obtain some cool looking gear they've seen drop from raids. In that post, the casual player specifically asked that the quest take longer, be more expensive, and all around harder to obtain than it would be by raiding.... but just asked that it be possible to earn the gear through other means. The hardcore players came in and demanded that raiding be the only way to achieve that gear, then began accusing the player of feeling "entitled," even though that player specifically asked that it be harder to achieve than through raiding. As far as I can remember, that's the only thread I've seen where a casual player started the topic. Out of the thousands of other threads that have been posted, I've never seen a casual player in TOR demanding the things BW is adding to that vendor. Edited February 26, 2012 by Vecke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akirator Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I agree. When I read the first reply back on page 1 (I think) saying this is the result of casual players feeling entitled and complaining that they can't have this stuff, my first thought was, "Odd. I'm a forum lurker, and I've never seen a thread started by a casual player demanding this." Eh, you're right, nobody on the forums has demanded this particular thing happen. But taking MMOs as a whole it happens all the time, and BW might have just thought its better to do is now than wait for the QQ to start. But we don't know one way or the other. I don't think I've ever seen a casual player - ever - say, "I'm entitled to this gear and you are not." I see that constantly from the hardcore players. If by entitled you mean "i worked for this gear and you didnt" then yea, hardcores say that all the time. What alot of the casuals say is "i know you worked your *** off for Gear X, but i dont feel like it. Gimme gimme anyways." I'm all for giving casuals easy to get gear or w/e, but saying "hardcores" cant have their own unique stuff to grind for is basically a big middle finger to them. And in general thats what MMOs are starting to doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Eh, you're right, nobody on the forums has demanded this particular thing happen. But taking MMOs as a whole it happens all the time, and BW might have just thought its better to do is now than wait for the QQ to start. But we don't know one way or the other. If by entitled you mean "i worked for this gear and you didnt" then yea, hardcores say that all the time. What alot of the casuals say is "i know you worked your *** off for Gear X, but i dont feel like it. Gimme gimme anyways." I'm all for giving casuals easy to get gear or w/e, but saying "hardcores" cant have their own unique stuff to grind for is basically a big middle finger to them. And in general thats what MMOs are starting to doing. What if casuals ask for a longer and harder way to obtain the same stuff? Not asking for it easily, but asking that they simply have an alternate - more difficult - way to get it. Do you have a problem with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akirator Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 What if casuals ask for a longer and harder way to obtain the same stuff? Not asking for it easily, but asking that they simply have an alternate - more difficult - way to get it. Do you have a problem with that? Nope, no problem what so ever. You put in the effort, regardless of method, you deserve the reward. Which is why I didnt say ALL casuals, some arent against the effort just the method. The ones who feel like they deserve whatever they want just handed to them are the ones I have a problem with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Nope, no problem what so ever. You put in the effort, regardless of method, you deserve the reward. Which is why I didnt say ALL casuals, some arent against the effort just the method. The ones who feel like they deserve whatever they want just handed to them are the ones I have a problem with. Okay, then. I'll shut up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owenthorn Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) basically, if someone can buy something, that you feel you had to "earn" you don't like it, yeah, that's special snowflake syndrome kicking up, go QQ somewhere else this is an mmo, NOTHING is special or unique, it is only the "feeling" you associate with it, go do something worthwhile with your life, don't come to a video game to validate your existence plus looking at your name, I cannot take you seriously Edited February 26, 2012 by owenthorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I wonder how many of these people who complain about earning stuff takes part in the Ilum kill trading. Yup. Hard earned stuff right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieAlteHexe Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Nope, no problem what so ever. You put in the effort, regardless of method, you deserve the reward. Which is why I didnt say ALL casuals, some arent against the effort just the method. The ones who feel like they deserve whatever they want just handed to them are the ones I have a problem with. Me too. And there aren't all that many of 'em that I've seen. Yes, there are some (although like Vecke, I don't recall seeing any around here, mainly in BlizzardLand) and they are usually vocal but not backed by many people. I have utterly NO problem with raiders having raid stuff or PvPers having PvP stuff. They did the content, they earned it. Fine by me. What I don't like is the thinking that all the other players somehow don't want to work toward getting cool stuff/vehicles/craft items etc. Most do, they just aren't interested in PvPing or raiding etc. In fact, raid/PvP equivalent gear holds no interest to me because (wait for it!) I don't raid or PvP. I could be skewing the thing though since I'm not one to say: Lookee! I got something and you don't. If I see something that I want, I realise that I will need to work to get it. Just like in RL. If I don't put in the effort or am unwilling to, that's my loss. There is, though, a difference between a difficult but achieveable goal and "i win" button territory. The latter would be boring, to me. The former could keep my interest for a good length of time. The wise thing would be for a fairly equal amount of content so that all types of players had these goals to shoot for. Non-raiders, -PvPers could, as mentioned, have some tough quests. Lots of ideas have been put forth around here as a counter. So no, not all "non-hardcore" (I use that term because I don't know what else to categorise myself as) want stuff on a silver platter. We're perfectly happy to earn it via alternative methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberPrey Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Having no interest to raid, ever, I see no problems with this. Same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Relax, it's only until 1.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Relax, it's only until 1.2. And then you can buy them from crafters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Casual entitlement ruins mmo's. This vendor and the content nerfs are bull ****. Casuals have content to play through, it's called normal mode ops. EV can be cleared in 1.5-2 hours total. And you have a whole week to do it. By putting in less effort, you deserve less rewards. Simple as that. Oh get over yourself. There's new endgame content coming in 1.2, which means these crystals you're whining about aren't the cutting edge endgame anymore. Who cares if casuals get them? You'll have new uber loot to chase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daMarek Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 So I wonder if this is one of those FAIL schemes where they seed a few schematics and only if you're at the right place at the right time and got the right dough you will get them and in the future everyone has to buy the items on the GTN for astronomic prices set by the lucky few that will stay with the game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogolp Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Maybe people should be allowed to buy levels as well. And quest completion items. How would that be different from buying gear that you previously had to "earn." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Lightsaber colors should be available to everyone for little to no cost and they shouldn't even have stats, imo. Ascetics should be a personal choice. I do agree with specific speeders. If they are rare drops they should be kept that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieAlteHexe Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Maybe people should be allowed to buy levels as well. And quest completion items. How would that be different from buying gear that you previously had to "earn." Because they had to earn the "money" to buy it? This is kind of like looking down at people who don't raise beef cattle or corn etc. for buying it rather than raising it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mineria Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) My guild downed world bosses about 20 times to get specific magenta crystals schematics. There we got one of the biggest design flaws in mmo's history, World Bosses. People have been pointing out since EQ how much those suck, since they are exclusive to the first tagging group that camps their spawn points. I do agree, that changing the way rewards are handed out is lazy from a developer PoV, it would have made much more sense to either instance those bosses or add them to a public queue which rewards the participants and not only the group members. Edited February 26, 2012 by Mineria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Maybe people should be allowed to buy levels as well. And quest completion items. How would that be different from buying gear that you previously had to "earn." It's totally the same thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mineria Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) Because they had to earn the "money" to buy it? This is kind of like looking down at people who don't raise beef cattle or corn etc. for buying it rather than raising it. You can't buy what isn't raised, and you don't "earn" credits in SWTOR. But let's have it your way, let the game shove everything up peoples behind without that they really need to do something for it, and then you can have fun soloing around on half empty servers, cause eventually even casual players will get bored without anything to archive. Edited February 26, 2012 by Mineria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogolp Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 It's totally the same thing... Yes, it actually is. Level based theme park MMOs are about doing something to make your character more powerful and unique. Part of that is gear. But part is also based on levels, quest completions, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabenschwinge Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) I disagree with the OP. Cosmetic items, that have no impact on games stats and are not different in principle from normal items should not be held back. If it was hard to acquire before, that was a design flaw. Special equipment, like a full set of Rakata gear should be hard to acquire. But every player should have the option of letting their char look any way they want, regardless of whether or not they're interested in end-game. Edited February 26, 2012 by Rabenschwinge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mineria Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I disagree with the OP. Cosmetic items, that have no impact on games stats and are not different in principle from normal items should not be held back. If it was hard to acquire before, that was a design flaw. Special equipment, like a full set of Rakata gear should be hard to acquire. But every player should have the option of letting their char look any way they want, regardless of whether or not they're interested in end-game. Unless the look adds stats, but you kinda said that yourself already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieAlteHexe Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) You can't buy what isn't raised, and you don't "earn" credits in SWTOR. But let's have it your way, let the game shove everything up peoples behind without that they really need to do something for it, and then you can have fun soloing around on half empty servers, cause eventually even casual players will get bored without anything to archive. It's not "my way". It is the way the game developers decided to go. I, like you and everyone else, can choose to either play what they offer or not. So, let's not be heaping the "blame" on me. I have plenty to achieve. Enough to keep me busy for months to come. I'm sorry that this is not apparently what you are finding. Truly. It is frustrating to run out of game, so to speak. However, I haven't got that problem and won't for ages. As for the "shove up everyone's behind"...this is an exaggeration and well you know it. In order to buy these proposed things (as on PTR) one has to have a lot of credits. Those are earned in a variety of ways. In fact, it's probably more time consuming to clobber enough or quest enough to buy those items than it would be the current method. I could be wrong in that though. Has been in past games. I will happily wager that I play and enjoy this game far longer than those for whom things like this PTR change is an issue because, y'see, I'm not the jealous sort. I believe that working toward a goal is a good thing, absolutely, but I don't get all fussed when I achieve MY goal and then notice someone else has the same thing. Good one them, good on me. ETA: To be clear, I think it's fine that there are things that ONLY raiders can get or ONLY PvPers can get. So long as there are ALSO goals for the rest of the playerbase. And as the game ages, things that are über now, will no longer be as new content is released. Carrot/stick. Formulaic. So when the current stuff is not longer the very very best, there will be new to go for. Edited February 26, 2012 by DieAlteHexe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samborino Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Its is despicable if they do this. I havent go my guild together to do the world boss for the magenta crystal yet or anything like that. I still dont think it should be handed to me through a vendor though. Also I spent alot of time farming enough money (nearly 2 weeks) to finally get my VIP wristband so i could go up to the VIP lounge and get the speeder there for 1.5 million. If they start selling this speeder for 1 million at a vendor like its nothing special at all i will be seriously choked. BW is going to isolate any player thats ever acheived anything remotely unique in this game, **** on it, and make sure that everyone can have it so that its no longer unique. I really hope this doesnt go live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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