To put it gently, I agree with these guys..

[Dannicus]

A lot of this piece was very opinionated. Rather than being something shared entirely by a lot of players, I happen to think they just couldn't get into SW:TOR for similar reasons as to why I will likely quit the moment my friend stops playing: It's a themepark, and WoW is such a "Been there, done that" feel that really the biggest thing going for SW:TOR is each class's story.

 

I can understand where they come from, I understand a lot of why people are upset and I am generally in agreement, but I happen to think they're either being too unforgiving or they're just not accepting that a themepark is what a themepark is, while also being far too nostalgic over WoW. BTW, WoW, in the end, never was, isn't now, and never will be the amazing game anyone ever made it out to be, especially considering (even more so when comparing vanilla WoW to vanilla SW:TOR as it's very new still) that SW:TOR has most everything WoW has and did it better. I think the fact that he admits to enjoying WoW's instances over TOR's flashpoints, and admits to having no altitis at all, is supportive evidence of my earlier claims. They're tired of themeparks and won't admit it and unduly place a lot of praise with WoW for what I'm betting are mostly nostalgic reasons. This is especially true when considering WoW's success has been the driving force blocking innovation and the creation of mainstream sandpark and sandbox games. With EA forcibly massaging their prostates, I would have been surprised if TOR ended up as anything different than it is.

 

If anyone was expecting different than Bioware making the quest grind a story grind as the game's details came out, you were fooling yourself. And if you think WoW is actually superior, you're further fooling yourself.

[Kubernetic]

This. All these fanbois just want a bunch of yes-men nodding their heads and saying everything is great. They can't stand that someone else has a different opinion of the game. A lot of us that don't like the game don't go around to every post that say they like the game and be like OMG YOUR OPINION ISNT VALID YOU STUPID NOOB LOLOL. But every thread of someone posting why they DO NOT like the game is full of fanbois trying to invalidate someone else.

 

That more than any trolling truly shows how this community works.

 

If the forums are full of "this game is perfect" bioware doesn't improve, the game fails because everyone leaves without saying what is wrong.

 

You fanbois don't have to agree with our opinions on the game, but you don't have to post on a criticism thread either =)

 

You can give constructive examples of what you're talking about. "It's too easy" could refer to dozens of things in the game. Be specific.

 

If it's "too repetitive", say what part is repetitive. Are class quests repetitive of other class quests? Is it the normal discoverable world quests that are too repetitive? Not enough missions for crafting and such? Resource gathering is too repetitive? The available options for various attacks in fights against mobs are too repetitive? Boss fights and fights that require a little more strategy than normal are too repetitive in that they're always the Boss-Adds-Boss-Adds-Boss scenario? Are the worlds themselves too repetitive? The designs of the planets too repetitive? PVP warzones too repetitive?

 

Giving a few of those examples (and being more thorough than just pointing to them... explain what you mean in detail) would be classified as "constructive criticism".

 

Saying "this game sucks because it's too repetitive" is something an automated phrase generator could come up with.

 

Try to be more thorough than an automated software script could be. Challenge yourself to speak clearly. Put some time and effort into it, if you care. If you don't care, what are you doing here?

[Lethality]

Such as?

 

What does WoW have that SWTOR doesn't, ranked WZ? Aside from that I think what's being offered is pretty similar. Zones to quest in, instances, raids, and PvP.

 

You mean there isn't 7 years of increased content in a game that was released 2 months ago? Any MMO is going to be playing catch up to EQ2 or WoW from a content stand point. Thus you will NEVER get what you are looking for and you should either stop gaming or go back to WoW. Or you can enjoy the ride and be part of something new as it grows. You can also wait and come back in 5 years.

 

The lack of reading comprehension never ceases to amaze me.

 

I'm not talking about content. I literally said "FEATURES".

 

Guild mechanics (and not just a bank), world event systems, LFG tools (note this doesn't have to be automated), mobile/web integration, achievement system, I could go on.

 

GW2 is coming out of the box with all of these. They will start with a more complete feature set. So the problem for TOR is they will always be playing catch-up in even the basic areas, even for games that come out after them!

 

And again, it would be different if they came out and said "we don't think those features fit in our game" at least there would be a decisive answer. But they DO want to bring all of these features, and so they really needed to be there at release to have the impact needed.

[Monfort]

Fanboys will always be fanboys, and they will never accept facts.

 

.

 

Don't forget the other side of that coin..the haters will always be haters and they will never change their viewpoint either.

[Monfort]

I'm starting to believe that it's funner to wait and be hyped up for a game than actually play it after release. Really hoping that GW2 doesnt disappoint.

 

And the funny part is that the mods arent even lurking this forum for criticism or feedback, they just want a reason to pull the trigger and delete a post.

 

I suspect most of the people who are who so disappointed in SWTOR are going to be just as dissapointed by GW2....

[Zaskaszh]

So you will troll the TOR forums because you don't like the game? Here's a suggestion. How about go play something you do like? Drop this game and don't look back. Why hang around if your not having fun playing the game?

 

...because your average gamer is immature, self-important, etc etc....

 

I truly appreciate all these people making my point for me though (not that it really needs much proving since Penny Arcade's "GIFT" theory was postulated).

[Aloro]

Naggy raid outdoes anything this game could come up with. And I'd rather do it over and over than any of the FP's or ops here.

 

You are very welcome to go raid Nagafen if it pleases you. I found that zerg-based design to be horrid, but then I don't really want to spend my free time pretending to be one worker ant out of four hundred attacking a beetle.

[Aloro]

GW2 is coming out of the box with all of these.

 

... and will doubtless lack MANY other features that are already in this game. That's how these things go. Every feature that's desired takes time and money to implement, and NO game ever ships with all features intact. It's never happened and never will.

 

But if you want to chase the hype, feel free. I'll only note that this choice will doom you to disappointment, again and again. The next game might be better (or it might not), but it'll never be perfect, and it'll never have every feature you want.

[Zaskaszh]

Opinions aren't facts.

 

I've read this entire thread and all the hyperbole falls squarely on the detractors of SWTOR. Most of the people who enjoy this game that have posted in this thread have made it abundantly clear that there are bugs and other assorted issues with this game. Not a one has claimed TOR to be perfect.

 

However, those in your camp consistently claim that most things are broken/suck/bugged/unenjoyable. It takes a willing suspension of disbelief on the haters' end to hold some of the views that they do--namely the nonsense about TOR "bleeding subscriptions" or "lacking content" or being a "WoW clone."

 

It's garbage. Pure and simple.

 

Claiming that there's no replayability is not a "fact." It's an opinion. It might be one that you happen to agree with, but under zero circumstances is that factual.

 

These guys don't think TOR is for them after a couple months. Fair enough and they made some valid claims. Your bootlicking doesn't validate their opinions any more or any less.

 

Your problem is that you're too level-headed, rational, and consistent to be taken seriously by anyone who's bound and determined to make certain that their side is right...

[otakuon]

I suspect most of the people who are who so disappointed in SWTOR are going to be just as dissapointed by GW2....

 

And Terra.

 

And Secret World.

 

And PlanetSide2.

 

And....

[malevolentmuse]

What baffles me is why anyone would post to the forums of a game they claim to have either left, are leaving or flat out don't like. My mother used to say people who go where they're not wanted are just doing it for the attention and I can assure you those of us who do like the game really don't care about the fact you don't and don't need to know your "brilliant" opinions and critiques.

 

Here's a novel thought: everyone who has issues with the game and feels the need to constantly compare it to something else click the links below. Clearly you'll be happier there.

 

http://guildwars2.com/

 

http://worldofwarcraft.com

 

http://masseffect.com/

Edited February 25, 2012 by malevolentmuse

[Zaskaszh]

I think the gaming market is no longer gamers, it's consumers. Consumers have expectations, game companies have traditionally had a tremendous amount of leeway when it came to producing broken, useless product and those days are rapidly coming to a close.

 

Yet more evidence of what I'm stating R.E. gamers in general today. Gamers have always been consumers by simple virtue of the fact that we buy games. That makes us consumers automatically. Also, you use two of the modern gamer's favorite words; broken and useless. Every single MMO made in the last 10 years, including WoW, has been called broken and useless by the gaming community at some point, but if you just stop for one moment, you quickly realize that SWTOR isn't broken because 1.7 million people play it. Since it's not broken and 1.7 million people are playing it, it is by extension not useless. Gamers have to stop tossing words around that have nothing to do with their complaints.

 

Finally, these two statements need to be memorized by MMO gamers as a whole:

 

1- No MMO has ever been made which did not launch in a bug-ridden state.

2-No MMO will ever be made which will launch in a bug-free state.

[Zaskaszh]

In this day, I dont really believe its a question of, Bioware worked hard on this game, they made it for you and you should appreciate it, if not get out. But more of that the entire gaming industry just lacks innovation and promise.

 

People signed onto these forums in 2008 i think? maybe later? Don't quote me, but my point is, us as fans and gamers become hyped and devote ourselves to these games, and these companies lead us to believe that their game is going to be much worth our time and money, and then after 2 months of playing this game that you waited so long for, you discover that its really just another game. Not the promising, immersive world you were looking for, or even told you were going to get.

 

Think really hard and ask yourself the following when you're next disappointed by an MMO (any MMO, not necessarily SWTOR); are you sure it's the gaming company that built the game up to be this incredible, innovative, genre-busting game? Are you sure they didn't provide years' worth of coverage indicating it would pretty much be yet another themepark-style MMO, but with minor differences...maybe voiced-over questing and a personal storyline?

 

Are you sure that all the things you were expecting weren't things you were hoping for, but which the gaming developer never, ever came out and promised?

[malevolentmuse]

Are you sure that all the things you were expecting weren't things you were hoping for, but which the gaming developer never, ever came out and promised?

 

The entertainment industry, as a whole, is riddled with the corpses of projects deemed "failures" because they didn't meet the never-asked-for expectations of idiots.

[Zaskaszh]

But the absurd Irony is that in the beginning it was the norm. All the early MMORPGs were heavily complex and integrated. In social engineering, in game economics, to 100% player driven crafting..

 

The industry has been trying to recapture that appeal ever sense, and failing a little more every year.

 

This is because 12 million+ players first discovered MMOs by playing WoW...and will simply not accept that an MMO can exist which doesn't feel exactly like WoW.

 

But...they also want something better, because they are tired of WoW.

But...when it launches, it better have an auction house, and a cross-server queue, and all the amenities and gizmos and doodads of WoW.

But...it has to be new and innovative, too.

Just not too much.

 

Now really, how is any game developer supposed to satisfy someone whose stated "perfect game" is so clearly defined?

[Monoth]

http://www.keenandgraev.com/2012/02/14/copy-gold-leader-out/

 

I haven't been keeping up closely with these guys. But Keen is uncannily right in his perceptions a vast majority of the time. Besides his assessments, in addition I can not tolerate the bugs and poor design elements which just make you wonder about the designers professionalism, if not their talent. Also the general game management structure and failure of proper public relations and in game support.

 

It was great while it lasted and save something biblical in effect to change how the game plays and feels, I do not see this title lasting. I'll hang out a while longer, probably go back to an older title like DDO.. I'm sure they've added content by now..

 

Do you really think someone who is enjoying the game really cares what a blogger thinks of the game? or for that matter what you think of it? I think people want to believe their opinion is important but in reality its not, nobody cares what you or that blogger thinks....

 

You either like the game or you don't..... move on....

Edited February 25, 2012 by Monoth

[Zaskaszh]

And Terra.

 

And Secret World.

 

And PlanetSide2.

 

And....

 

...ArcheAge.

[japorms]

can anyone tell me an mmo game where-in no one says:

1) the classes are imbalanced.

2) pvp is a joke

3) I'm unsubbing

4) the quest are repetitive.

5)blah blah blah is overpowered.

6)blah blah blah need a boost.

7) nerf blah blah

8) too hard to grind for gears

9) I'm moving on to the latest and greatest "rpg".

10) maintenance sked should be moved coz it coincides with my playtime.

11) etc etc etc ................

[Zaskaszh]

The entertainment industry, as a whole, is riddled with the corpses of projects deemed "failures" because they didn't meet the never-asked-for expectations of idiots.

 

I agree completely. It's why I originally stated wayyyyy back in my first post in this thread that gamers nowadays are generally immature, self-important, entitled, etc etc etc...

 

They create false expectations in their own minds, and when said expectations aren't met, they go way overboard in their criticisms and attempts to "punish" the [insert derogatory term here] developer who "lied" to them.

[Akkalevil]

http://www.keenandgraev.com/2012/02/14/copy-gold-leader-out/

 

I haven't been keeping up closely with these guys. But Keen is uncannily right in his perceptions a vast majority of the time.

I had my doubt at first, but after reading it, I agree that his opinions and feelings on the game are really uncannily the same as mines.

[Hypernetic]

I agree completely. It's why I originally stated wayyyyy back in my first post in this thread that gamers nowadays are generally immature, self-important, entitled, etc etc etc...

 

They create false expectations in their own minds, and when said expectations aren't met, they go way overboard in their criticisms and attempts to "punish" the [insert derogatory term here] developer who "lied" to them.

 

[The_Old_One]

I do agree that there is a lack of community in-game.

 

The game does feel like an online single player game much of the time. There is little incentive to team with others along the progression of a character; save for doing Heroics and Flashpoints, of which Heroics can be soloable after all.

 

People need incentive to team. For instance, bonus to players who help others to do their class missions and bonus for teaming in general. Social Points are fun but not exactly useful for its usage is rather limited.

 

There is no innate social engineering mechanism in this game. Most of the time people are spread out doing their class missions in different planets. Otherwise they will be standing around in the station hoping to get on a Flashpoint.

 

In some ways, an MMO should allow for one to solo from 1 to 50 with no external help at all. BUT (a BIG 'but') for it being an MMO it ought to have ways to encourage teaming, which should be fun and above all rewarding AT ALL LEVELS (as in at any points between 1 to 50 and not just an occasional hard quest that require outside help).

 

A quick fix solution is to make Social Point useful, such as providing gears (or anything else) that could benefit the team. As mention above, a better reward or a bonus should be given to others for helping out other classes to do their missions, for instance a title or some kind of self or class specific buffs.

 

Incentive to team is the key. And that is still lacking in this game.

[Kaelshi]

I do agree that there is a lack of community in-game.

 

The game does feel like an online single player game much of the time. There is little incentive to team with others along the progression of a character; save for doing Heroics and Flashpoints, of which Heroics can be soloable after all.

 

People need incentive to team. For instance, bonus to players who help others to do their class missions and bonus for teaming in general. Social Points are fun but not exactly useful for its usage is rather limited.

 

There is no innate social engineering mechanism in this game. Most of the time people are spread out doing their class missions in different planets. Otherwise they will be standing around in the station hoping to get on a Flashpoint.

 

In some ways, an MMO should allow for one to solo from 1 to 50 with no external help at all. BUT (a BIG 'but') for it being an MMO it ought to have ways to encourage teaming, which should be fun and above all rewarding AT ALL LEVELS (as in at any points between 1 to 50 and not just an occasional hard quest that require outside help).

 

A quick fix solution is to make Social Point useful, such as providing gears (or anything else) that could benefit the team. As mention above, a better reward or a bonus should be given to others for helping out other classes to do their missions, for instance a title or some kind of self or class specific buffs.

 

Incentive to team is the key. And that is still lacking in this game.

 

I leveled 1-85 recently in WoW without ever joining a SINGLE group.

 

Most of the time I never even saw other people unless I was in stormwind and I NEVEr chatted because all trade chat is in WoW is anl this and anl that and discussions about ra*e and child molestation.

 

I mean....I've grouped more on swtor during leveling than I have the last 5 years leveling multiple alts in WoW

[Agemnon]

I agree for the most part with the article. However, I find replaying as an operative more viable even though I have a 50 scoundrel as my main. The jedi sage and bounty hunter (not even Mako can motivate me enough to play my BH and I really like Mako ^_^ ) I have are hard getting into. I'm just too much of a rogue Edited February 25, 2012 by Agemnon

[Halofax]

2 months and no raids.

 

WHAT?!?!?!?

 

TWO MONTHS AND NO RAIDS?!?!?!? WHAAAT?!?!?1

 

*see also how WoW didnt have raids that worked for 2 months..