Febibi Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Bioware/EA cannot lie about subscription numbers without breaking the law. Server populations are an entirely different matter. They don't have to lie about them because they don't have to talk about them. Instead they let posters speculate all they want just like we see here on the forums. Case in point, what exact numbers does "standard" actually mean? Light, heavy, etc.. same way. Without a reference to actual numbers, those terms can mean anything that Bioware wants them to mean. They are in complete control of those terms. I would like for them to get rid of those terms and, instead, show actual players playing on each server and it would also be nice to see the split between Empire and Republic. They won't do that though. I'm even surprised they show # of players in a specific zone but since there are numerous planets, flashpoints, warzones, etc., no one actually knows how many total players are logged into the server. notice that they had the torstatus website change its format from numbers to the low/standard/high/very high/full format? they are not lieing about numbers, but they are fudging them by adding in trials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjashadowdark Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 1.7 million active subscriptions =/= 1.7 million actual people still playing the game. Can't believe people still fall for simple marketing spin. EAware counts me as an "active subscriber" and I haven't played in damn near 2 months. They only get to for another 9 days though. Then they have to count me as a cancellation. Guess how many more pre-paid accounts will be running out of time soon and becoming officially cancelled where they can't be counted? I'm betting enough that even 1 million "active subscriptions" will be nothing but a fond yet bittersweet memory for poor ol' EAware. thats because some of us still like the game if you left its not for you ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febibi Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 thats because some of us still like the game if you left its not for you ... Many of us love it but they need to fix and properly market that things are better now to win back subs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiskyJax Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Still seems a little high for the server states. Think we are down to about 150k Concurrent users or a little over 1.3 million subs. One major issue/battle since day one on these forums is players believing that 1.7 million subs should equal 1.7 million concurrent users which is of course absurd. And the players who still love this game a losing the battle to this type of thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vahzl Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) I agree, however EA has shown in the past that this is not how they document their numbers. Other companies do the same. Until it is written into law that free trials do not count as active subscribers ...this behaivor will continue The law doesn't come into it. A subscriber refers to someone with a subscription (which is the word used to define a paying customer). Whether they are in their initial 30 day trial period, or on their paid time is not relevant though, but this is people that have a paid subscription setup on their account, not people who have trial accounts. Otherwise any corporation would simply create billions of dummy trial accounts to bolster their numbers for all to see wouldn't they? Edited March 26, 2012 by Vahzl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I hope there are lots of players online when I return to the game patch 1.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devlonir Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 notice that they had the torstatus website change its format from numbers to the low/standard/high/very high/full format? they are not lieing about numbers, but they are fudging them by adding in trials Nobody 'had' torstatus change it. Torstatus changed it because that format is the only true information they had. And Bioware states they change the meaning of these states from day 1 to later on to ensure a more even split of players among servers. 'Opening the floodgates' so to speak. Seriously, you accuse EA/BW of twisting facts for their own good while each and every post you make you can be called on exactly the same thing. Pot, meet Kettle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smilefunk Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) the only reason threads like this have any relevancy is if they're fun... is this fun? Edited March 26, 2012 by smilefunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 A sub is someone who is currently in their paid time period, not someone playing on a free account/trial period. The very definition of the word means they are subscribers. No, sub numbers are always a bit iffy. For example SoE used to claim anyone with a particular station account as an EQ1 subscriber, whether they'd ever played EQ1 or not. The majority count anyone who is paying for a subscription, anyone in a free trial period or anyone who has been active on an account within the last month. They make no distinction for users with multiple accounts so they will be counted separately. This is an interesting read on the "black art" of MMO subscription numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) Think we are down to about 150k Concurrent users or a little over 1.3 million subs. One major issue/battle since day one on these forums is players believing that 1.7 million subs should equal 1.7 million concurrent users which is of course absurd. And the players who still love this game a losing the battle to this type of thinking. Yeah the concurrent users would certain tally more with the server states at that amount, maybe actually little low perhaps (maybe more 200,000 ish). I think Bioware needs to worry less about absolute numbers, and more about maybe merging for a better gaming experience, then get things fixed up properly and hopefully get things growing again. Rift seems to be managing this, and WoW was a fairly slow burn with sub numbers initially (it was only at EQ1 ish levels in the first few months). Edited March 26, 2012 by Goretzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febibi Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Think we are down to about 150k Concurrent users or a little over 1.3 million subs. One major issue/battle since day one on these forums is players believing that 1.7 million subs should equal 1.7 million concurrent users which is of course absurd. And the players who still love this game a losing the battle to this type of thinking. That is very true and where many mess up their definition of population. I think the main concern is that when fleets fall under 50 at prime time, there is a concern. RP is the way to enjoy this game....RP-PVP will give you every opportunity possible. The law doesn't come into it. A subscriber refers to someone with a subscription (which is the word used to define a paying customer). Whether they are in their initial 30 day trial period, or on their paid time is not relevant though, but this is people that have a paid subscription setup on their account, not people who have trial accounts. Otherwise any corporation would simply create billions of dummy trial accounts to bolster their numbers for all to see wouldn't they? What you have described is how Blizzard opporates as well as how Warhammer went before BW took over it from Mythic. BW turned the game honest but it was too late...though the game is still going and fun. However the reporting method shows account and subscriptions as well as sales of copies of the games with downloads added in. You throw together the downloads and count them as sales or copies of the games in distribution, and you add in trial accounts with subs to all count as active accounts....this is how EA and Blizz work their numbers to investors. There is a lot of data on it and a movement to request changes in reporting of online gaming company reporting methods. Bottom line, the numbers were expected to go down, they went down faster than expected and 1.2 is delayed. The dalay of 1.2 has hurt the game and there is hopes taht it will recover many lost accounts. I for one hope things change but it will take about a year to fix many of the problems that customers found with the game. In the mean time we have other choices, and some come in methods of how we enjoy this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febibi Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) No, sub numbers are always a bit iffy. For example SoE used to claim anyone with a particular station account as an EQ1 subscriber, whether they'd ever played EQ1 or not. This is an interesting read on the "black art" of MMO subscription numbers. Nice to see someone doing the research as well... But we shouldnt go there... for now, we just want EA to start being honest. Then once they are honest, we can work to help them....who wants to help a lier? Edited March 26, 2012 by Zilrota removed religious comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zilrota Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Hello everyone. We have had to remove a significant number of posts from this thread and would like to take a moment to remind everyone of the rules of conduct in the forums. No insults, name calling, or personal attacks Please stay on topic. Please express your opinion and thoughts in a constructive, respectful manner. If someone violates the Rules of Conduct, please flag it instead of replying to it. Keep in mind that everyone has different viewpoints. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're trolling. If you believe someone is trolling, please use the Flag function to report their post. We ask that you please keep these guidelines in mind, particularly the last one, when posting in the forums. Disagreement is expected, but calling each other trolls or being otherwise inflammatory, rude or disruptive is not allowed. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzone Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 notice that they had the TOR Status website change its format from numbers to the low/standard/high/very high/full format? No, TOR Status has no choice since it's the only data they have to go on. Server status does not show numbers so how can TOR Status show numbers? Their site reflects the vague statuses taken each hour. Like I've pointed out over and over, what does "standard" mean? Without knowing the numbers, it means whatever Bioware wants it to mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenter Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Nice to see someone doing the research as well... But we shouldnt go there... for now, we just want EA to start being honest. Then once they are honest, we can work to help them....who wants to help a lier? EA has lied to you, have they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 No, TOR Status has no choice since it's the only data they have to go on. Server status does not show numbers so how can TOR Status show numbers? Their site reflects the vague statuses taken each hour. Like I've pointed out over and over, what does "standard" mean? Without knowing the numbers, it means whatever Bioware wants it to mean. You can take an educated guess at what the server states represent. You can't know for sure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captiosus Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I hope there are lots of players online when I return to the game patch 1.2 I wouldn't hold your breath in anticipation. On one hand, I feel badly for EA/BW because they tried to avoid the issue Blizzard had with early WoW by preemptively putting up a ton of servers and rolling out more in a short period of time from retail release. Unfortunately, the population numbers haven't been able to make the vast number of servers viable. Because first impressions are everything, I doubt there will ever be a massive swell of new players to justify all these servers (and I doubt many people who have left will return simply for 1.2). On the other hand, if they hadn't bungled up the game so badly, maybe there wouldn't be an issue with customer retention in the first place. Can't say I have EVER seen an MMO that penalizes grouping so harshly during the leveling process, or one quite so linear, or one with such a schizophrenic attitude towards end game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISTrick Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I guess 2.1 Million by May - free weekends/trial is a great way to get the game out there. If 1.2 delivers, and they back it up with a solid re-boost campaign (probably a week or so away), then I can see 2.1 being conservative. Despite the general sense of butthurt on these forums, everyone I know playing it (a lot) is loving it - whether in PvP or PvE, we're all having a great time. Doesn't hurt we're all massive Star Wars fans to boot I guess... Sci-Fi over Fantasy any day for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icysunx Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 It takes them a month just to transfer a handful of people over to the PTR, I doubt they can even consider something as large as a server merge lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masturomenos Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 If the subscription goes down in any way it just proves that 1.2 is fail. Th whole point of this game is like any game to make money and if the people paying dont continue to pay then bioware failed. Lets see how important and how much investors care then if bioware is trying to balance classes. You are not wow you ont have the years of good moves to allow you to make bad ones. Your balls my be big enough to try to nrf but you havent made enough money to pay for your pants yet. So before you go mess everything up thin.k about what the peple signing your checks think. Where our money? Learn bioware evolve dont piss us off when you do you keep some fancyb boy followers and lose everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinUnleaded Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I cancelled yesterday, but I have 25 days remaining.. Hopefully update 1.2 will come out during that time so I can check it out and if its good I will re-sub. Otherwise..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifeaggro Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 EA has lied to you, have they? Ritchtello has made several untrue statements Reguarding this game over the 6 years of devolpment. so yes if you consider untrue statements lies and ritctello the head of EA. then yes EA has lied on more then one occasion reguarding this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) This is what I find hilarious. Every one of the people who were screaming "omgzorz mass exodus!!!!11111eatatjoes" on this thread months ago are still screaming it today. But they canceled oh how they canceled; yep two weeks left...and then you'll see. Meanwhile rumor has it that BioWare will be announcing a growth in subs at the next investor call. And the beat goes on. Edited March 29, 2012 by Jett-Rinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cepheid Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 This is what I find hilarious. Every one of the people who were screaming "omgzorz mass exodus!!!!11111eatatjoes" on this thread months ago are still screaming it today. But they canceled oh how they canceled; yep two weeks left...and then you'll see. Meanwhile rumor has it that BioWare will be announcing a growth in subs at the next investor call. And the beat goes on. How do you explain a growth in subs and a lower amount of active subs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 How do you explain a growth in subs and a lower amount of active subs? I am subbed, but now play less than I did over the holidays due to work and family obligations. Oh, also this isn't the only game I play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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