_Rammie_ Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Any boss fight will result In a wipe If your group doesn't know the fight mechanics As for enrage timers they have purpose They are a gear check Depends on the boss. If you bring enough heals you can go a very long way. A "gear check" says absolutely zero about skill. In all mmo's you can see people with great skills and poor skills. You can also see people with average gear but great skills. But to go back to enrage timers: just catering to the ignorant masses. Making facerolling dpsers feel important because tanking or healing is too complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanisle Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I think somebody got put to bed early Now back to Unicorns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Rammie_ Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Even geared players can wipe on enrage timers. Absolutely not! They passed the gear check! Their gearscore is over 9000! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanisle Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 gonna go watch survivor - if it aint closed I'll be back to argue later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Absolutely not! They passed the gear check! Their gearscore is over 9000! OMG, like, that's simply not possible. Over 9000? No way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) Depends on the boss. If you bring enough heals you can go a very long way. A "gear check" says absolutely zero about skill. In all mmo's you can see people with great skills and poor skills. You can also see people with average gear but great skills. But to go back to enrage timers: just catering to the ignorant masses. Making facerolling dpsers feel important because tanking or healing is too complicated. Do you even understand the purpose of speed humps/gear checks Also Gear Is a tool A Means to an end it has nothing to do with skill Your not going to take a group Of dps and healers and tanks in greens to a hm op And succeed no matter how much skill they have Anyway back to topic yay for addons and macros Edited February 24, 2012 by denpic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Rammie_ Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Do you even understand the purpose of speed humps/gear checks Also Gear Is a tool A Means to an end it has nothing to do with skill Your not going to take a group Of dps and healers and tanks in greens to a hm op And succeed no matter how much skill that have Yes. But that shouldn't have to go with an enrage timer. Just make the bosses hit hard enough for a particular mode and allow the content to be cleared by setup able to survive. Making them run out of time is lame and pretty much kills having fun experiments with unusual setups. A slow and steady approach should be just as viable as a DPS race. If everything is on an enrage timer it is just poor tunnel vision design. Flexibility is what can make content fun. I agree everybody should be geared appropriately for what they do. An undergeared player results in the others having to work harder to compensate. But that still doesn't mean the better geared player is the actual better player. I'm sure we can both agree on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Yes I'm not saying every boss should be enrage timed Just that the mechanic is used as a gear check And a test to dps and that it serves a purpose This all comes from being able to know your class and to push it to the limit And currently without the tools "Addons" no one is 100% sure Yes we're downing bosses yes we're surviving pvp But some of us like to know why And how the numbers behind the success And that should be acceptable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonefoxSwe Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Combat log in the way to see dmg done and dmg recived is ONE thing, and it doesn't automaticly means that a DPS-meter will come. And yes.... I HATE the DPS-race that has been more and more popular since "yhe other game" made the machanics that way...because it was the easiest way for them. Macros have theit use.....in games with mechanics that "needs" them......the mechanics in this game doesn't....no I'm serious..... Take L2 back in the days....before you could toggle soul/spritshots on/off then we used the macro to add these to the skills so macros where usefull there. Well.....I could use macros to use my dots in one keystroke....but thats not making it more efficient, that just shows I'm beeing lazy and just want to use less buttons since the total casttime would be the same or a bit more (depending on macrosystem, sometimes you need a pause between the skills otherwise the macro will break). And if they allow DPS-meter add-ons then add-ons like DBM will follow......and as far as I have seen what ppl said about how and why hey use them is putting more wood to my fire against add-ons. "I use it to be able to focus on my DPS since it tells me what to do, what attacks the boss will make" etc etc.... Some ppl even ADMIT they used it to be able to kick back, relax and slack since it told them everything that hapend in big red letters all over the screen....aka easymode.... SO I have heard both sides of the story of why ppl use it and I dispite it since they don'tplay the game.......they are beeing driven by somebody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) Combat log in the way to see dmg done and dmg recived is ONE thing, and it doesn't automaticly means that a DPS-meter will come. And yes.... I HATE the DPS-race that has been more and more popular since "yhe other game" made the machanics that way...because it was the easiest way for them. Macros have theit use.....in games with mechanics that "needs" them......the mechanics in this game doesn't....no I'm serious..... Take L2 back in the days....before you could toggle soul/spritshots on/off then we used the macro to add these to the skills so macros where usefull there. Well.....I could use macros to use my dots in one keystroke....but thats not making it more efficient, that just shows I'm beeing lazy and just want to use less buttons since the total casttime would be the same or a bit more (depending on macrosystem, sometimes you need a pause between the skills otherwise the macro will break). And if they allow DPS-meter add-ons then add-ons like DBM will follow......and as far as I have seen what ppl said about how and why hey use them is putting more wood to my fire against add-ons. "I use it to be able to focus on my DPS since it tells me what to do, what attacks the boss will make" etc etc.... Some ppl even ADMIT they used it to be able to kick back, relax and slack since it told them everything that hapend in big red letters all over the screen....aka easymode.... SO I have heard both sides of the story of why ppl use it and I dispite it since they don'tplay the game.......they are beeing driven by somebody else. So Your stating that you've never actually used an addon or macros You just don't like them cause other people said they're Baad Lol k Also the ingame ability queue system is in fact a cast sequence macro Shock horror Edited February 24, 2012 by denpic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luraziel Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 overall i would say that we dont need addons here... with that being said if addons were opened up i could see the possibilities. DBM, factionfriend, auctioneer, gatherer and a few others are ones i can think of off the top of my head for wow that would do awesome in this game as well... at the very least one should not go raiding in wow without DBM it is such a help in those boss fights! not saying you cant... but i am saying you shouldnt! (this coming from a dps' main perspective) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonefoxSwe Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 So Your stating that you've never actually used an addon or macros You just don't like them cause other people said they're Baad Lol k Also the ingame ability queue system is in fact a cast sequence macro Shock horror Oh the horror........but you missed the fact that I HAVE indeed used macros......you never read that part. Most games I have played had and still have macros in them. And YES I DID use them to decrease the amount of buttons I had to use....specially as a support such as a buffer. Diff buffchains for diff players and classes...so no I'm not against MACROS... And YES I have been using add-ons....the GUI-addons for AoC and it was a hassle to keep up with the game updates since it took a day or a week for the makers of the add-ons to be at par with the game. And sometimes after an update the add-ons actually made the game crash to often before they were updated. So that's ONE thing that makes me against add-ons. And NO I have never used add-ons that TELLS me the mechanics of the game since I am a player that WANTS to and NEED to learn the mechanics by myselfe since that makes the game fun to me. And speaking of the biggest add-on-game there is.........i Played it for a month and didn't like it one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyTrek Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Personal damage meters I'd be OK with, add-ons...nope not necessary in any way. As an MMO veteran, I'm only for personal damage meters (i.e. I can see my dps but not others). I dont even consider those a must have for the most players. I'm strongly against add ons since all they truly do is promote elitism. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuzt Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Did the boss die? Yes, I passed. No, I didn't. End of test. This, meters are not needed and never have been needed. With that said I could care less if they implemented them, but again they are not needed. People who NEED them are usually the ones who cannot come up with a rotation on their own that works (people have been figuring out rotations without meters for many years now). TY WoW for making everything so stupid easy that many can't figure out simple basic mechanics without an addon. I'm ok with addons personally, its the OMG we NEED this mentallity that makes me just shake my head at what MMO's have become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeruleanNite Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) I love how people have played this game and succeeded in defeating the content but still claim they need add-ons, etc in order to play. Kind of a contridiction if you ask me. If they where needed then no-one would have been able to complete all of the content, so obviously they are not needed. Basically, if you cant beat something in this game without these things then you need to L2P. Edited February 24, 2012 by CeruleanNite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perkunas Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I love how people have played this game and succeeded in defeating the content but still claim they need add-ons, etc in order to play. Kind of a contridiction if you ask me. If they where needed then no-one would have been able to complete all of the content, so obviously they are not needed. The content is easy and this is all we'll ever see in a game where numbers are ignored. It saddens me to see that this community is filled with people who are more than satisfied with a complete lack of challenge. To know that the death knell for this genre is being cheered on by folks who would rather wallow in mediocrity than strive to be the best players they can be. I should have expected as much. You folks ruined Warcraft and now you're here dragging down this game because many of you don't want to actually have to try to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelhon Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Minor percentage? Go to any server and hit up the Imp/Repub Fleets and ask if people want addons. I guarentee the majority of people will take them. Also look at WoW, the most popular and succesful MMO out there. Most (i cant say all), but MOST players PVPing and raiding at end game have addons. And if you dont want them, DONT GET THEM! Addons are optional, not required. If you dont want them, dont download them. But most players want to have at least the option to have addons in the game. They allow you to change your controlls to how you want them to be, so you can enjoy the game that much more! While i have no fear of any addon the moment things like damage meters come into game we will be getting hordes of groups requiring a certain amount of dps otherwise you will simply be kicked from group. This is turn forces addons to become necessary. Again I don't fear them but i do fear the effect on the community. There are a lot of players new to MMO's in SWTOR and this form of elitism, because that is how it ends up, can only damage the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeruleanNite Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 The content is easy and this is all we'll ever see in a game where numbers are ignored. It saddens me to see that this community is filled with people who are more than satisfied with a complete lack of challenge. To know that the death knell for this genre is being cheered on by folks who would rather wallow in mediocrity than strive to be the best players they can be. I should have expected as much. You folks ruined Warcraft and now you're here dragging down this game because many of you don't want to actually have to try to succeed. 1. You dont know me 2. You dont know what games I have played 3. Dont lump me or anyone else for that matter into the "You folks" thread I could say the same thing about you, the hardcore must have add-on folks are what really kill games. They make it so that each new expansion must be harder and harder until it gets to the point where the majority of people cant take the time to even try it. So go ahead, cry more about needing this stuff. Maybe they will add it to the game someday and maybe by that time most of the more casual people will leave so you have only a server or 2 to play on with your precious add-ons and hardcore content that only a handful of people can even expect to complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharee Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Generally I am against addons. If there is an UI functionality that a player needs, it needs to be part of the original game. My reasoning for it is this: An addon gives an advantage to the person using it. If i get a huge blinking text and a horn sound everytime my riposte ability is ready to use, i will be much more efficient at using it. Therefore having the addon will become mandatory to keep the fights on even ground. In my opinion, the player who bought the game has the right to assume that the fights will be on even ground right out of the box. He cannot be reasonably expected to scour the internet for meta-knowledge about what addons he needs and when. Keeping the playfield even and fair is the developer's job, not the players'. That being said, i would not mind 'convenience addons' that do not directly impact combat performance(and are not mandatory in any way). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perkunas Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 1. You dont know me 2. You dont know what games I have played 3. Dont lump me or anyone else for that matter into the "You folks" thread I could say the same thing about you, the hardcore must have add-on folks are what really kill games. They make it so that each new expansion must be harder and harder until it gets to the point where the majority of people cant take the time to even try it. So go ahead, cry more about needing this stuff. Maybe they will add it to the game someday and maybe by that time most of the more casual people will leave so you have only a server or 2 to play on with your precious add-ons and hardcore content that only a handful of people can even expect to complete. I believe in content for all types of people, but that doesn't exist in this game. It's faceroll and it relies more on bugs than it does actual mechanics for it's difficulty. Nightmare mode should not be the joke that it is. You can have your fun in normal modes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightShad Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Or at least give us some kind of in game damage meter. I dont know about the rest of the community, but i'm an extremely competitive gamer, and i like to push myself to crush my guild mates and buddies on the damage charts. Otherwise i really dont have that spark to do well and really enjoy a HM or Ops. Bioware is bringing out the option to move and change the scale of your UI, but that's not enough. We had addons in just about every other MMO and we got used to it. Now the transition is tough, not being able to evaluate myself and see how i did. And we also cant pick out people who need help with their rotation. Please listen to the community! Addons have been around for years, you shouldnt have released a cutting edge 2012 game with things that have been around since 2007 (maybe earlier? i dunno ^_^ ) Please NOT i dont want to make rules outlawing addins on ops. It was bad enough in WoW where i had to outlaw the damagemeters just to get bossed killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaeil Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I don't want addons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artthen Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Hello everyone! Because a thread about this topic already exists, we'll be closing this thread in order to consolidate discussion. We encourage you to join the existing discussion of add-ons here: This game badly needs mods and macros. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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