Akash Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 This is an MMO, and like virtually all MMO's you always hurt for tanks and healers. If you want to play a tank or a healer you can get a group easily, cause most gamers think its just more fun to smack stuff around and see big numbers roll up the screen. If you want faster groups, then it makes sense to play a tank or a healer. This can be illustrated in this game subjectively by noticing how long a dps can shout in LFG for a group, vs how long it takes a tank or healer to do the same. This can be illustrated objectively in que times with games like Rift. Rift uses your typical holy trinity setup, just like most MMO's, with tank, heals, and dps. It does have "support" classes that can offheal and do some dps, depending on what is necessary. The reason to bring this up is that Rfit also has a cross-server dungeon finder. You can que for the role you are going to play, tank,heals, dps, or support. If you log on as tank or healer, drop yourself in the que, then you get a dungeon fairly instantly. If you try as support its a little slower, but not much. If you try as dps you just might have a good long wait. Sometimes as much as 30-45 minutes. Which still isn't much considering how long it takes to get a group spamming LFG in TOR. Rift also has 5-man groups. Invariably, folks that que as support wind up just dps'ing except on certain encounters or when the healer dies. The point of all this is that no matter if it is set in space, its still an MMO. And DPS is still the most popular thing to do in MMO's, by far. By limiting group size to 4 players, the game attempts to force us to "play it their way". What it really does is increase wait time for dps players, which would already be longer if it was 5-man or even 6-man groups, and make them tragically, "log out and go do something else with your day long." A game can't force its players to do it the way they envision it if it wants to maximize its playerbase. It has to react to and take into consideration what makes players want to come back and play more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khryn Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 So you are saying that you'd prefer the group size to increase so that you can just zerg everything with a bunch of DPS' because you don't like playing a Tank or a Healer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phinion Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Sounds like a dps that is basically refusing to play tank or a healer and is complaining that they can not get a group. Most other games have the same problem, no tank, no healer group is a no go. This is not just SWTOR but most MMO's are like this even WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcburly Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Im a dps, and I enjoy the 4 player setup. You arent going to see it change as every instance would have to be tuned differently and loot would have to be changed a bit. Plus 4 player instances is the original set up before WoW came along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akash Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Sounds like a dps that is basically refusing to play tank or a healer and is complaining that they can not get a group. Most other games have the same problem, no tank, no healer group is a no go. This is not just SWTOR but most MMO's are like this even WoW. I've played a tank in MMO's for 15 years. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khryn Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I've played a tank in MMO's for 15 years. I Then why are you complaining? This is the way things are. If you want to be a special snowflake DPS, tough luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akash Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 So you are saying that you'd prefer the group size to increase so that you can just zerg everything with a bunch of DPS' because you don't like playing a Tank or a Healer? No. How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkulous Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Pfft! With all the problems in finding groups, can you imagine if these Heroics or FP's were 5-mans? BW knew this was gonna be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
va_wanderer Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The point of all this is that no matter if it is set in space, its still an MMO. And DPS is still the most popular thing to do in MMO's, by far. By limiting group size to 4 players, the game attempts to force us to "play it their way". What it really does is increase wait time for dps players, which would already be longer if it was 5-man or even 6-man groups, and make them tragically, "log out and go do something else with your day long." Funny you should say this- because I frequently run Heroic 4's with 2 people. Or 3. And a companion. Seriously. I'm a Trooper. I have a healer AND tank companions. They're not as good as a player, but they'll do the job if I'm careful and I gear them properly (ie, not in cast-off greens because I thought they looked good). You should try it sometime. SWTOR's actually pretty kind to groups that are all DPS players...not only by allowing them to go in with fewer real people, but by having just about every class have an NPC tank or healer on standby to help out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belogard Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) And, no companions? Huge disappointment. In Lotro you can bring six loremasters w/pets into anything you like and have a romp 'n stompin' time. Here? Poof...no room for a companion. Balderdash. Whoever came up with this one should get a real job. It's an integral part of your class...till you need it. I still can't believe this one. And, it's stuff like this that have eyes looking toward Guild Wars 2. You know all the time this game was in development? It took so long cause of the problems scheduling all the voice actors. You didn't think they were perfecting the game...did you? Edited February 23, 2012 by Belogard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Im a dps, and I enjoy the 4 player setup. You arent going to see it change as every instance would have to be tuned differently and loot would have to be changed a bit. Plus 4 player instances is the original set up before WoW came along. Um EQ1 it was six actually, but that game had a trinity of needed classes AND dps - tank healer and CC. Without that CC the healer would not be able to keep up with the damage tanks took. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akash Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 No. How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion? Why are you posting on this thread? I've made an observation about the game that I believe represents poor design, as is my right as a consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khryn Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 No. How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion? Eh, sorry. After you started mentioning Rift I spaced out throughout most of your post. I did re-read it though. So you made a clear whine. What do you expect anyone else to do about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akash Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Pfft! With all the problems in finding groups, can you imagine if these Heroics or FP's were 5-mans? BW knew this was gonna be an issue. Yup. It's an issue. That's why I'm posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeruleanNite Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 And, no companions? Huge disappointment. In Lotro you can bring six loremasters w/pets into anything you like and have a romp 'n stompin' time. Here? Poof...no room for a companion. Balderdash. Whoever came up with this one should get a real job. And yet another person who just wants to zerg over everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akash Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Eh, sorry. After you started mentioning Rift I spaced out throughout most of your post. I did re-read it though. So you made a clear whine. What do you expect anyone else to do about it? I expect people to use these forums to communicate ideas and suggestions to each other and the developers. Why are you here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khryn Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I expect people to use these forums to communicate ideas and suggestions to each other and the developers. Why are you here? Well I came across your post and thought it might add intelligent conversation, but all you did was complain. You didn't offer ANYTHING in the way of how to fix it. You just flat complained and left it at that. Maybe if you had suggested something, even something completely asinine to facilitate a conversation instead of a monologue about group size somehow making DPS queues longer, I might have responded a bit more positively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincynt Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Well I came across your post and thought it might add intelligent conversation, but all you did was complain. You didn't offer ANYTHING in the way of how to fix it. You just flat complained and left it at that. Maybe if you had suggested something, even something completely asinine to facilitate a conversation instead of a monologue about group size somehow making DPS queues longer, I might have responded a bit more positively. I read between the lines and came up with the argument of the OP being for larger group sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akash Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Well I came across your post and thought it might add intelligent conversation, but all you did was complain. You didn't offer ANYTHING in the way of how to fix it. You just flat complained and left it at that. Maybe if you had suggested something, even something completely asinine to facilitate a conversation instead of a monologue about group size somehow making DPS queues longer, I might have responded a bit more positively. I did suggest something. Perhaps if you had read the OP before attacking? But let me spell it out more directly. 1) Increase group size to 5 2) Institute a cross-server LFG instance finder 3) Tune instances as needed to maintain difficulty level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khryn Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I read between the lines and came up with the argument of the OP being for larger group sizes. Well that's my original conclusion too, and then he spouted off "How in the world did you come up with that conclusion?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
va_wanderer Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 And, no companions? Huge disappointment. In Lotro you can bring six loremasters w/pets into anything you like and have a romp 'n stompin' time. Here? Poof...no room for a companion. Balderdash. Whoever came up with this one should get a real job. It's an integral part of your class...till you need it. I still can't believe this one. And, it's stuff like this that have eyes looking toward Guild Wars 2. You know all the time this game was in development? It took so long cause of the problems scheduling all the voice actors. You didn't think they were perfecting the game...did you? That's sorta my point. Companions are that good in SWTOR- it's often as good as having a player in the same role. Frighteningly enough, at times it's better. They're not pets. Generally, they're better. If we could put four PC's with companions into a Heroic 4, it'd be trivialized. They'd have to revamp the instances completely to compensate for the added firepower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akash Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 And yet another person who just wants to zerg over everything. I have to ask at this point if you've ever been on a raid? Instances can be tuned to accomodate whatever the group size. I'm not talking about difficulty of instances here, I'm talking about maximizing playtime for the playerbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khryn Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I did suggest something. Perhaps if you had read the OP before attacking? But let me spell it out more directly. 1) Increase group size to 5 2) Institute a cross-server LFG instance finder 3) Tune instances as needed to maintain difficulty level I don't see the need to increase group size to 5. I think the difficulty is tailored to 4 man's in that respect. You are getting your cross-server LFG instance tool, but honestly it's gonna make queues LONGER for DPS because now instead of say 50 DPS lfg, you are gonna have 5000 DPS LFG. I covered this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipathize Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I've spent just as much time looking for dps as I have other classes (main is a tank, alt a sniper) I think it's better than what I was expecting because of the variety of roles and story. It's a bigger problem for me to find a dps that doesn't derp, and if I know you do, I won't pick you up in a group again. Maybe you're building a reputation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akash Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 I don't see the need to increase group size to 5. I think the difficulty is tailored to 4 man's in that respect. You are getting your cross-server LFG instance tool, but honestly it's gonna make queues LONGER for DPS because now instead of say 50 DPS lfg, you are gonna have 5000 DPS LFG. I covered this one. And you've just made a very good argument for increasing group size to 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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