Not a QQ - trying to learn

[Veeius]

I'm very new to the game, so far, it's really fun, I have a BH merc, SI assassin & a sorc, and a Jugg.

 

One thing I've noticed is that the Jugg has neither CC of any sort, NOR stealth - which makes soloing heroic 2's nearly impossible where my assassin, sorc, and merc seem to be fine.

 

Am I missing something? I'm not QQ'ing, but I don't see what juggs get for not having cc or stealth. Heavy armor doesn't seem to make much of a difference when an elite is banging on you unless someone is spam healing you, which I generally don't have.

[Lord_Rezo]

Welcome to the hard leveling world :3.

 

Im able to solo EVERY 2 Hard Mode (even some 4 man) with my Operative. But i cant even do one alone with the Juggernaut, not after Korriban.

[AngelousWang]

You arn't missing anything, Juggernaut cannot complete H+2's solo, not on the same level anyway (if you, and more importantly your gear are 5-10 levels higher than the content then you can solo it).

 

We don't have a 1 min CC, this is the issue. H+2 can only be solo'ed with a 1 min CC.

 

Merc/Soc/Op can solo any H+2.

Assin can solo organic enemy H+2's (which is most of them, very few are completely droid).

Mar can only solo Droid H+2's (as long as one of the elites in each group is a droid).

Jugg/Ptech cannot solo H+2's.

 

The reason you can solo H+2's on starter worlds is because these are designed for two players only (with no companions). Therefore you and your companion count as a full H+2 group with the full amount of DPS required.

 

After that H+2's are designed for two players and two companions, therefore you are missing the DPS of two players if you solo it.

[Veeius]

So, what do Juggernauts get in lieu of stealth and cc? I get that it's not something that will allow you to solo 2 man heroics, but I mean, there's something they get instead, right?

[Lord_Rezo]

Nothing, its expected we just "sustain damage" on heavy armor. But if you are dps spec you will find you have a 3-5% more damage reduction than a marauder (which are medium) plus they got Cloack of pain (20% more damage reduction for 45 seconds).

[JediKabuto]

So, what do Juggernauts get in lieu of stealth and cc? I get that it's not something that will allow you to solo 2 man heroics, but I mean, there's something they get instead, right?

You get to look like an under developed Decepticon in your tier armour.

[Fallenlore]

So, what do Juggernauts get in lieu of stealth and cc? I get that it's not something that will allow you to solo 2 man heroics, but I mean, there's something they get instead, right?

 

You get to lead raids and tear em up. You're new to MMOs so I'll give you a quick rundown of classes in terms of MMOs. Generally a good soloing class is a "jack of all trades" type toon. They aren't the best at one thing. So come end game, you want something that is best at one thing.

 

Juggs make nice Main Tanks, and even awsome dps because we scale very well with gear. You won't notice in greens/blues but once you get a full purple set you will see a huge difference.

 

Now the only reason some classes can solo Heroic 2+ or higher is because of CC's. Generally only healing classes get these, so we are sorta out of luck in the CC department.

 

On that note, I've been tearing through the leveling content on my Jugg (3rd toon) with no issues. Yeah I don't solo Heroic 2's, but I rarely did on my SI Sorc either just because it took too long to down them for the reward. That and I can always bring one of my 50's guildies to clear out all the Heroic 2's & 4's in one shot after I've collected them on the planet.

 

If you really feel lacking, if you ever hit 50, play huttball and be the ball carrier. We have a huge distinct advantage in that WZ.

[Veeius]

Oh, I'm going to get to 50. I don't give a damned that other classes have a large leg up; I'm not giving up.

 

Though I will say that going after Faraire w/ no companion is a freaking bear.

[thorizdin]

Space missions are your leveling friend. Once you get into the upper 30's it isn't as painful.

[Veeius]

I'm at 36 now. I have to say, while I'm GOING to do this - jeepers it's like 50 times harder than my assassin.

 

First, my assassin has a tank, which means mobs have to go through Khem's health bar (and he DOES have heavy armor) THEN my assassin's.

 

Second, my assassin has a cc, so it's easy mode to cc one, beat the other - and if I don't think I can take down the cc'd one, it's no problem, just scamper out of aggro range and when the cc breaks, the mob doesn't aggro. Heal up, then come at the remaining mob, easy.

 

Third, no stealth is a *****. The CRAZY respawn rate means that if I have to fight 30 mobs to get to a quest item, I have to fight 28 to get back. As opposed to my assassin who will skip 29 mobs, kill 1, then skip 29 going back.

 

I go after elites my level on my jug and I can USUALLY win, but it's ALWAYS very close, requires full tank cd's, and if I screw up ANYTHING, I die. On my assassin? Elites my level are a yawn fest. Just spam burst until it dies. On the off chance that Khem dies before the elite dies, all I really have to do is remember to hit the assassin tank cd, and stop using maul.

 

None of this would be so annoying if it wasn't for the fact that the companion healer AI is pants on head retarded. Seriously - how hard is it to code "tank is below 90% health, HOTS, and help damage - tank is below 60% full normal rotation heals, no more outbound damage - tank is below 30% spam emergency heals and ignore everything else."

 

Khem is a billion times better a tank than ANY of the healer companions is at healing.

 

I'm going to level to 50, and I'm going to play this toon, but good freaking god, the leveling process is just PAINFUL.

[CinarilAlaron]

Juggs have a terrible leveling experience. Flat out. My full Immortal Spec Jugg has more downtime than just about any other class I know, and has more issues soloing content, too.

 

I'm seriously considering switching specs till 50.

[Irishpierre]

I've finished every class quest 2 levels below the recommendation. I don't solo H2 heroics, since I don't run the heroics on any of my toons, to be quite honest. Too much time involved and usually, ESPECIALLY with Alderaan, I just want to leave the *********** planet.

 

I haven't really had a problem with Jugg other than deciding if I want to stay Immortal, or go Rage. He's level 31 and just finished Act 1, so I'm sure things will change when I'm 50.

 

I've had a few questions on this class but someone answered them before--Purple gear helping us massively in the end game? Leveling wise, just a matter if I want damage or tanking. So far, I've been doing just fine with Immortal spec but with the Shii form (3% Dam Reduc, 3% Dam Increase....Or 6%. I forget.)

 

Either way, it is the most difficult out of my Sorcerer and Powertech, however, I'm able to manage.

 

 

Have you considered rolling Biochem by chance? A reusable stim and medpac pertaining to your level REALLY come in handy and help me out in dire situations.

[Felran]

Soloing with the Jugg is fun, I'm about 2 levels below my quests (as the above poster is) and its a challenge, not a big one, but it keeps me on my toes. You need Malavai to run stuff quickly, although I sometime use Jaesa so and just have to remember to heal up inbetween mobs.

 

I tend to ignore H2+ and sometimes H4s unless I find a good group which maybe why I haven't really noticed a problem.

[Krazed]

Juggs have a terrible leveling experience. Flat out. My full Immortal Spec Jugg has more downtime than just about any other class I know, and has more issues soloing content, too.

 

I'm seriously considering switching specs till 50.

 

not my jugg i do fine. but im def spec

[aalllttt]

Hmm I rolled sith juggernaut going up the immortal tree and sure I have died a few times but doing Heroics 2 was not hard as soon as I had my healer companion, use the defensive abilitys as often as possible and have healing kits with you.

[Elyx]

Currently running Vengeance on my jugg, with quinn healing. started using him when i got him, never looked back. well...i did flop over to vette a few times, but went back to quinn as i liked how the balance between my dps and his heals worked. Currently level 42.

 

My previous experience was a shadow consular to 36 (repub side), and 2 sages to their late 20's. Have yet to have many issues with my Jugg, once i got used to how they played. not as EZ mode as my sage, but then again, i fall asleep sometimes on my sages (half the reason they're so low...i'd literally fall asleep and wake up out of game time. they're great when im having sleeping problems tho).

 

its painful if you go in smashing buttons. I cant comment on immortal spec as I've only ran it a few times a few levels each time. didn't like how it played, went back to Venge.

 

the key with Jugg is you need to pay attention to your abilities, and what the mobs are doing. learn to let your companion pull a silver (or two weaks), if you have a large group and don't think you can handle the heat. learn how to time your stun skills to keep weak mobs out of service, and take advantage of quinn's freeze ability to hold down a mob at range. learn to be aware of your environment and plan out your fights as your in them.

 

learn how to leap to the ranged mob and push them into the rest of the group. learn to avoid spamming your smash immediately, so a mob can run over to quinn on healing threat and smack him around a bit (he likes that...some weird S&M thing). dont' spam your attacks on the silver at first...take the weaks out. 3 weaks will do more damage then any single silver out there. learn when it's best to Pop your defensive CD's. your CD's aren't emergency use skills on a jugg btw...they're regular rotation. though at 42 I'm not really using them unless its an elite or i have more then 1 silver...or I just had too much whisky and botch my pull.

 

when you smash, make sure you smack a weak with pommel strike (pretty much a one shotter after smash). dont waste your crit buffed force scream on a weak that only has a shred of life left. hit a different weak with full health so he's stunned, then use sweeping slash to finish off the other near dead mobs . noticed i have done squat with the silver who's pounding on quinn (he's usually crying like a little girl at this point). normals are down...leap to the silver. unload a DPS chain on him (for me that usually includes shatter, impale, force scream, and at least one sunder). push him away (make sure it's not into other mobs) leap on him again. repeat dps cycle (whatever it is) he's probably dead by that point.

 

i will usually finish most fights in the 90% health range...if I'm lower quinn usually has be healed back up by the next one. Notice in the above paragraph that it seems like im switching mobs allot. I am. Don't just down one mob..go to the next. pick out which abilities will do the most on which mobs(like my crit force scream above).

 

keep your gear maxed. I'm not talking about buying that sad blue hilt that's 3 levels beneath you. keep your hilt UP TO LEVEL, and purple is preferred. and yes, its worth hunting one down. If you were on my server (Thana Vesh) I'd make you them. because it's that big of a deal. the rest your gear can just be blue up to current level. same thing with your companion.

 

I keep quinns gear up almost more then I do my own. I probably spend more time on gear selection then most other classes. I favor str over endurance for my gear, and cunning over everything else for quinn. which means I'm usually buying or making my own mods, as most the commendation stuff is higher endurance. if you're going immortal build, your gtg. but i prefer max damage.

 

and yes, overall this is far more work then my sleep inducing sage. but it is freaking FUN. 10x more fun. On my sage I just pebble things to death (my sorc zaps it like a bug...zzzt...zzt...zzt..ohnoes bubble...zzzt). But i smash things. I pound them with my saber. I pitch them into a wall and leap on them again. and stick my saber into their SKULL.

 

saber throw is without a doubt the coolest ability since sliced bread. well, that and force scream. It's not about just breezing through the game. it's about feeling very carnal, and thoroughly enjoying yourself. and still finding the game a breeze. I just gotta think about it a bit.

 

Edit: oh yeah, i have yet to level Biochem. haven't even had a need to buy medpacks. the ones i get from drops do fine...rarely use them. manage your CD's, but use them when they're there! don't wait. juggle. I leveled artifice mostly for the purple hilts...and i like making lightsaber stuff.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Elyx

[EnalisNailo]

None of this would be so annoying if it wasn't for the fact that the companion healer AI is pants on head retarded. Seriously - how hard is it to code "tank is below 90% health, HOTS, and help damage - tank is below 60% full normal rotation heals, no more outbound damage - tank is below 30% spam emergency heals and ignore everything else."

 

 

Quinn is a great healer actually, though i had this problem at first. Open up your companion skill tab and make sure you put him into medical watch stance other wise he is going to try and dps. You put him in that mode all hes gonna focus on is keeping your hp up.

[lordofdamornin]

Quinn is a great healer actually, though i had this problem at first. Open up your companion skill tab and make sure you put him into medical watch stance other wise he is going to try and dps. You put him in that mode all hes gonna focus on is keeping your hp up.

 

Until he takes damage, then he will heal himself first, then you. If you completely mirco him though, you don't have this problem at all, but that's a lot of extra work.

 

OP -

 

Once you have Quinn, and both of you are as geared as you can get, you can solo a lot of the Heroic 2's...it just takes awhile, and you really can't make many mistakes. Some people feel it isn't worth the time *for the reward,* but these people are also clearly not seeing exactly how much exp per mob they are getting in the Heroic areas. It's a lot, even if you only kill enough to complete the main objective(s). To each their own, though.

 

This is as Immortal, btw - pretty sure the dps specs can't take the hits to solo the H2's at level, but I didn't try as anything other than Immortal, so take that as you will.

 

That said, I can solo all of the level 50 dailies sans Raxxus, and Poisonous Strategy, as either Rage, or Immortal, using Quinn.

 

Riôt

[Elyx]

Quinn is a great healer actually, though i had this problem at first. Open up your companion skill tab and make sure you put him into medical watch stance other wise he is going to try and dps. You put him in that mode all hes gonna focus on is keeping your hp up.

 

I've also noticed an occasional situation where range and/or obstructions that don't really affect your view can cause LoS reactions from quinn. This is probably a bug that impacts most the companions, but you see the effect more clearly when your using quinn (and expecting heals in the process).

 

certain terrain features can trigger this. I've seen in on some of those metal gratings you often run across in interior spaces, and sometimes simple large cracks in the floor that you jump over. Easiest solution is to quickley eyeball your path before you leap, and make sure your not leaping at max range. Or if you are, make sure theres no reason he can't get to you.

[DkAngel]

My suggestion is to do some pvp or space missions to catch those two levels that youre down. Im immortal spec at level 44 and I have absolutely no issues with anything. Granted like everyone else said I cant solo heroics but to be honest I never do them anyhow even with a group. I have a 50 marauder as well so maybe Im just not used to seeing how the ranged classes operate but comparibly its a cake walk with my jug than it was with my marauder. My biggest piece of advice is watch your abilities and space them apart properly. We have 5 interrupts 3 of which will stun or otherwise incapacitate the enemy, use them wisely. I find I can control a fight in ways I wish I could on my mara.

 

Also I tend to use a dps companion (usually Jaesa) rather than a healer. With a healer I find a lose ton of dps which makes fights drag on too long. On tough fights I end with maybe a third health at worst case and I can just heal up in a few seconds, so I dont see the need for a healer. Keep the fight controlled and keep your gear up to date and you wont need a heal.

[EnalisNailo]

I've also noticed an occasional situation where range and/or obstructions that don't really affect your view can cause LoS reactions from quinn. This is probably a bug that impacts most the companions, but you see the effect more clearly when your using quinn (and expecting heals in the process).

 

certain terrain features can trigger this. I've seen in on some of those metal gratings you often run across in interior spaces, and sometimes simple large cracks in the floor that you jump over. Easiest solution is to quickley eyeball your path before you leap, and make sure your not leaping at max range. Or if you are, make sure theres no reason he can't get to you.

 

I must just be really lucky thus far, I've not had an issue with Quinn healing me at all, even when he starts taking damage he still is more concerned about me, though i do my best to keep mobs off Quinn in the first place.

[Dirtysolutions]

I love my jugg, leveling as vengeance, and toh Im currently only level 27, I havent been forced to summon "fa*got quinn" at any point so far.

 

Actually ... I dont think Ive died even once while solo-questing. And Im using Vette.

 

Make sure ur gear is as good as u can get at pretty much all the time (having a higher leveled char with high leveled crew skills that can support u with say - epiq lightsaber hilts every other level helps a lot I think =) Also gear ur companion as good as u can.

 

Havent tried it myself since Im a very happy jugg in vengeance-spec. BUT - As far as Ive heard DO NOT level up as Imortal. Apparently its supposed to suck compared to vengeance or rage specs.

 

Also ... It might be tough to level up as warrior, and you dont get anything for the lack of stealth or cc. However (besides the fact that I feel even cooler than that fat kid on youtube doing the "darth maul" =) - Warriors are the most geardependant class in the game and expect to start shine at end game , with end game gear. The game-mechanics of swtor seems very similar to wow. And in that case I will cut people in half when properly leveled and geared

[Korevas]

Warriors are the most geardependant class in the game and expect to start shine at end game , with end game gear. The game-mechanics of swtor seems very similar to wow. And in that case I will cut people in half when properly leveled and geared

 

Not true, I believe this sentiment is a leftover from wow, just because the classes seem so similar to their WoW counterparts, but in TOR warriors are *not* in any way more gear dependant then others. In fact vengeance scales worse (talented dots do not scale at all it seems) and their force attacks scale exactly like those of every other classes, while the weapon attacks basically do the same (every weapon has a force/attack damage rating which scale linearly)

 

In WoW, warriors scaled very well due to their weapon being factored in for damage as well as stats, while caster classes did not get the same treatment, this is not the case here.

 

The only reason people say they are gear dependent is that they start off worse then others (notably marauders) and of course get to faceroll noobs as they gear up, but they will still stay subpar if compared to an equally geared opponent.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Korevas

[phga]

Havent tried it myself since Im a very happy jugg in vengeance-spec. BUT - As far as Ive heard DO NOT level up as Imortal. Apparently its supposed to suck compared to vengeance or rage specs.

 

Immortal definately does NOT suck at all. Going full Immortal with no strategic dps points from Vengeance and/or Rage, maybe. Also, with great gear and with your companions well geared, any class in any spec will have a smooth time leveling.

Edited February 28, 2012 by phga