The Suggestion Box

[EasymodeX]

a community list

 

E.g. bad list, lolol.

 

Carnage note:

 

Carnage needs to sacrifice some of its potential burst DPS (20k over 4s) in order to obtain more stable / usable DPS.

[mrHaterade]

E.g. bad list, lolol.

Possibly.

 

Carnage needs to sacrifice some of its potential burst DPS (20k over 4s) in order to obtain more stable / usable DPS.

You prefer sustained over burst for Carnage? Hm, I guess Rage would seem to be more the burst tree.

Edited March 1, 2012 by mrHaterade

[EasymodeX]

I prefer that Carnage work.

 

Currently it actually has most of the potential DPS that it needs to be viable, but from a PvP perspective the DPS vectors are way way way way too fragile. Carnage's DPS sucks dick unless you use narrow Gore + Berserk windows and you RNG crit and you RNG proc Atarus.

 

Rage burst windows are much more flexible -- the Smash buffs stick with you for 15s for example, and maintains full potential effect until used. Gore sticks with you for 4.5s, and every 1.5 seconds you don't use the Gore buff, you're losing Gore effect. Roflolol.

 

Carnage can roflstomp in its golden moments -- I about ****** myself when I hit 2 Massacres in a row for 4600 damage a pop with a 5600 force scream (all cooldowns popped, managed to crit every single attack on a low-ish exp target). But it's too rare in the first place (RNG x2) and it's too fragile even when your luck is with you (Gore constraints).

 

I think it's preferable to lose some of that potential to gain reliability. Unreliable DPS + poor defenses + par utility = poor spec.

[miliways]

I prefer that Carnage work.

 

Carnage's DPS sucks dick unless you use narrow Gore + Berserk windows and you RNG crit and you RNG proc Atarus.

 

Except that Carnage gets you guaranteed crits every time with Force Scream, and Massacre pretty much guarantees you get Ataru procs...

 

So RNG really isn't a big deal >_>

[EasymodeX]

Carnage's DPS is spread across every GCD. Its strength is that its spammable (Massacre) is strong. Its weakness is that an autocrit Force Scream alone is jack **** compared to an autocrit Smash + Crush detonation, or even a crit DS3 + Annihilate.

 

To get good DPS out of Carnage, Massacres must crit. Second Atarus must proc. Atarus must crit.

 

All within 4.5 seconds.

 

Autocrit Force Scream saves Carnage from being trash.

[mrHaterade]

Except that Carnage gets you guaranteed crits every time with Force Scream, and Massacre pretty much guarantees you get Ataru procs...

 

So RNG really isn't a big deal >_>

I imagine he's talking about the random procs when not in "rotation" mode. You know, the random Execute proc that's only even possible if Ataru Strike procs. Since Carnage is a damage only tree, as opposed to DoT heals with utility (Annihilation) or armor penetrating defensive burst (Rage), it needs to do more damage reliably.

 

Yes. Carnage is the damage only tree that doesn't outdamage the other trees. Makes perfect sense.

[Vakyoom]

My only problem with carnage, still, is that the fury generation is horrendously slow.

 

How about changing up the talent next to bloodfrenzy... umm...

 

Enraged Assault - Reduces the cooldown of Battering Assault by 1.5/3 seconds, and gives Assault and Battering Assault a 35/70% chance to build 2 fury.

 

 

Percentages are up for discussion of course, as are fury values but i feel that getting 2 fury on every "auto" swing will help carnage keep up in exactly the way it needs to. I figured keeping the fury non-guaranteed would make it more fair but the 2 fury every time might just be fair enough.

 

 

(Other than Gore self buffing, maybe dropping down to 60% armor pen for an extra 3 sec of uptime? discuss!)

Edited March 1, 2012 by Vakyoom

[Xerain]

Force scream needs to go back to being on a 6 second cool down and cost 4 rage when talented in carnage tree.

 

Carnage really does need better fury generation... I felt so lost with how little i could pop a buff in that spec .

 

Execute really needs a higher proc rate.

[mrHaterade]

I'd like to know why the hell Berserk gives Shii-Cho free cleaving Vicious Slashes, which if you're Rage like you should be, have a higher crit rate than Massacre and do close to the same damage. Yet, Carnage only gets reduced cost Massacre and Slash on a ... 0.5 second really?! ... lower cool down.

 

Berserk

Ataru Form: Force Scream costs no rage and consumes 2 stacks of Berserk.

Edited March 1, 2012 by mrHaterade

[mrHaterade]

Enraged Assault - Reduces the cooldown of Battering Assault by 1.5/3 seconds, and gives Assault and Battering Assault a 35/70% chance to build 2 fury.

...

(Other than Gore self buffing, maybe dropping down to 60% armor pen for an extra 3 sec of uptime? discuss!)

That's a good one. Added it to the list. And thanks for the formatting.

As for Gore, I agree that a percentage drop for extended duration is a fair trade-off. The combination of ability delay and ridiculous amount of mobiles (immobilization) in this game means 6 seconds is enough time to grimace and scream, "STUNNED W T F NOES," at your screen right before you get gang f'ed.

 

Force scream needs to go back to being on a 6 second cool down and cost 4 rage when talented in carnage tree.

Were we really that OP i beta before they changed it? I mean I can see folks crying about getting hit with too many Massacred Screams, but really, was it THAT bad?

Edited March 1, 2012 by mrHaterade

[Xerain]

 

Were we really that OP i beta before they changed it? I mean I can see folks crying about getting hit with too many Massacred Screams, but really, was it THAT bad?

 

If it helps any we also had the talent that gave a free force scream after charge... but yeah carnage spec was great then.

[EasymodeX]

I'd like to know why the hell Berserk gives Shii-Cho free cleaving Vicious Slashes, which if you're Rage like you should be, have a higher crit rate than Massacre and do close to the same damage. Yet, Carnage only gets reduced cost Massacre and Slash on a ... 0.5 second really?! ... lower cool down.

 

Because 0.5s lower GCD means +50% DPS.

[mrHaterade]

If it helps any we also had the talent that gave a free force scream after charge... but yeah carnage spec was great then.

Wow. Yeah, no wonder it got nerfed.

 

Because 0.5s lower GCD means +50% DPS.

But it's not on par with the Shii-Cho buff. In Shii-Cho, Vicious Slash does as much (or more) damage as Massacre even with the auto proc of Ataru. Plus it's a +1 cleave. The auto crit of critical bleeds (and therefore healing) buff for Juyo is on par, why isn't Ataru's?

[EasymodeX]

In Shii-Cho, Vicious Slash does as much (or more) damage as Massacre even with the auto proc of Ataru.

 

Pretty much no. A Rage spec ShiiCho VS does something like 18% more damage than a naked VS.

 

Base Massacre does like 5% more damage than a naked VS because of the crit damage talent. Autoataru makes it do about 25% more. RNGataru bumps that another 12%. Massacre does around 40% more damage than a naked VS.

 

 

Plus it's a +1 cleave.

 

Zzzz AOE. Don't think Carnage gives a damn about random AOE damage, relatively speaking.

 

 

The auto crit of critical bleeds (and therefore healing) buff for Juyo is on par, why isn't Ataru's?

 

Berserk is actually rather weak for DPS. You gain what, 55% chance for +105% bonus damage on 40%*2/3 of your damage for 6 ticks out of 28 ticks every soft cooldown. So .55*1.05*.4*.67 = 15% damage increase for the duration. Maybe bump that to 18% or so for model errors.

 

Ataru Berserk gains +50% DPS. 50% > 18%.

 

 

Ataru Berserk is pretty potent ... it just takes a year to build 30 Fury in Carn spec, and the animation/UI of this game makes the 0.5s reduced GCD a bit sketchy in practice.

[Xerain]

Wow. Yeah, no wonder it got nerfed.

 

i don't think scream hit as hard at all tough. like 3k if you got lucky... then again we didn't have the gear in beta that we have now.

[mrHaterade]

Pretty much no. A Rage spec ShiiCho VS does something like 18% more damage than a naked VS.

 

Base Massacre does like 5% more damage than a naked VS because of the crit damage talent. Autoataru makes it do about 25% more. RNGataru bumps that another 12%. Massacre does around 40% more damage than a naked VS.

 

Zzzz AOE. Don't think Carnage gives a damn about random AOE damage, relatively speaking.

Let's just compare ability vs ability first. The absolute base of Vicious Slash is higher than the absolute base of Massacre. When I was doing the Slash & Scream hybrid, Vicious Slash's tooltip max said 1555 damage. Now that I'm full carnage the tooltip for Massacre says 1253 damage. Ataru says the strike does 290 damage, and that's after the 30% increase from Ataru Mastery (before that it was 223). That puts Vicious Slash 12 damage ahead of Massacre + Ataru strike.

 

Now assuming you're full Rage, tack on the automatic 20% armor penetration from Shii-Cho and Vicious Slash pulls ahead even more. Finally, add the fact that Vicious Slash has 15% greater chance to crit and it now has the potential to pull further ahead. Massacre might proc that second Ataru Strike, or it might not.

 

Now let's add Berserk's effects. Assuming you got Enraged Slash, you get (Vicious Slash * 2) * 6 for FREE vs (Massacre + Ataru Strike ) * 6 for 6 rage. If you start with 12 rage and pop Berserk, in Ataru you get 2 more Massacres. In Rage you can do 5 more Vicious Slashes.

Edited March 1, 2012 by mrHaterade

[xDreegan]

Massacre only has a 50% chance to deal an additional Ataru strike when used. So with each Massacre you're guaranteed 2 hits, while a third has a fifty percent chance to happen. And to be honest I don't even notice the .5 second decrease in GDC for that attack. The reduced rage cost is nice, sure, but the infrequency of using Berserk and it's utility to the group doesn't make it really necessary to have. I get more out of Bloodthirst or Predation.

 

Whereas Shii-Chos Berserk gives me a way to mess up two people's days rather effectively.

[Evixy]

This isn't really a suggestion for balance, simply a request to make an ability a WHOLE lot cooler; Vicious Throw

 

In my opinion Vicious Throw should throw BOTH lightsabers. We are Dual Wielding and the ability is on a GCD and the skill is a typical execution skill, how come I'm not throwing both swords? It would look so cool if you flinged away both lightsabers towards your target.

 

This is my suggestion for balance/remodifying the use of a skill. I think the buff Annihilator gained from using Annihilate should be removed and replaced by this: "If your target is under the effects of 3 stacks of Deadly Saber, Annihilate automatically scores a critical hit." Deadly Saber and Annihilate are both on a 12 sec CD, causing this change to give better overall flow to Annihilation.

[xDreegan]

This isn't really a suggestion for balance, simply a request to make an ability a WHOLE lot cooler; Vicious Throw

 

In my opinion Vicious Throw should throw BOTH lightsabers. We are Dual Wielding and the ability is on a GCD and the skill is a typical execution skill, how come I'm not throwing both swords? It would look so cool if you flinged away both lightsabers towards your target.

 

This is my suggestion for balance/remodifying the use of a skill. I think the buff Annihilator gained from using Annihilate should be removed and replaced by this: "If your target is under the effects of 3 stacks of Deadly Saber, Annihilate automatically scores a critical hit." Deadly Saber and Annihilate are both on a 12 sec CD, causing this change to give better overall flow to Annihilation.

 

Yeah, sorry. I can't agree with that change. Annihilation is strong enough as it is, they don't need a way to make all their main skills crit automatically.

[Cindikle]

This isn't really a suggestion for balance, simply a request to make an ability a WHOLE lot cooler; Vicious Throw

 

In my opinion Vicious Throw should throw BOTH lightsabers. We are Dual Wielding and the ability is on a GCD and the skill is a typical execution skill, how come I'm not throwing both swords? It would look so cool if you flinged away both lightsabers towards your target.

 

Look cooler, maybe. But it leaves you open. Second light saber stays to defend yourself. I'm fine the way it is personally.

 

This is my suggestion for balance/remodifying the use of a skill. I think the buff Annihilator gained from using Annihilate should be removed and replaced by this: "If your target is under the effects of 3 stacks of Deadly Saber, Annihilate automatically scores a critical hit." Deadly Saber and Annihilate are both on a 12 sec CD, causing this change to give better overall flow to Annihilation.

 

Annihilation is already balanced fine as it is. Giving our biggest hitting ability the ability to auto-crit is dumb. Leave those tactics to Rage, ask them how the rest of their dps fairs to keep their crits balanced.

 

Annihilation is fine.

 

Carnage needs it's proc fixed and a more flexible rotation.

 

Rage is not very good in PvE far as I know. Even if it's dps holds up the AoE part of their rotation would ruin any CC heavy fight. They should make the Smash buffs also effect Deadly Throw. Then add Deadly Throw into Saber Strength to bring it's damage up to Smash's and lower it's rage cost by 1 rage per talent point. Re-worked a little for the Jugg tree but it would at least make the spec more viable.

[Hoodwinked]

I think the only thing I would like to see changed in the annihilation tree is the talent that has a chance to reset the CD of rupture. I would make it so it has the same chance to reset the effect on the target. As it is now, its a 6sec dot on a 15sec CD.

[Whitelightr]

I'd just like to see the buff from using Annil last a little longer. Not the reduction it gives, just the duration of the buff overall.

[EasymodeX]

Let's just compare ability vs ability first. The absolute base of Vicious Slash is higher than the absolute base of Massacre. When I was doing the Slash & Scream hybrid, Vicious Slash's tooltip max said 1555 damage. Now that I'm full carnage the tooltip for Massacre says 1253 damage.

 

Your "Slash & Scream hybrid" doesn't use "base VS". Try again.

 

 

Ataru says the strike does 290 damage, and that's after the 30% increase from Ataru Mastery (before that it was 223). That puts Vicious Slash 12 damage ahead of Massacre + Ataru strike.

 

Try to use a correct Carnage spec.

 

Really, it's almost not worth bothering with your post. Just re-read my post: the analysis is a mile ahead of yours.

[mrHaterade]

Try to use a correct Carnage spec.

 

Really, it's almost not worth bothering with your post. Just re-read my post: the analysis is a mile ahead of yours.

Chuckles. Like there's so many ways to roll Carnage. Give me a break, dude. Don't get all puffy and offensive just because you can't grasp the concepts. I fully read your post. It's flawed for the reasons I pointed out. Try again.

[xDreegan]

I really wish BioWare hadn't mixed all of the jobs up between the classes. 3 tanks, 3 healers, and only two true DPS. Utility is scattered to accommodate classes that have healing trees, yet they can DPS just as hard as anyone else, if not in most cases better, but still retain all the abilities a healer needs in order to stay alive like bubbles, AoE knockbacks, and a fair amount of CC.

 

It's starting to show itself more and more the more I think about it and compare it to other MMOs. And yes I'm going to compare it because almost every MMO runs off the same system. This game reeks of inexperience on BWs part, but all in all it is what it is. I just wish they would actually communicate with us. Even if it's just pretending to care.

 

Also. Dunno if any of you noticed this, but doesn't Marauder feel like it was originally intended to be some sort of Frankenstein off-tank? That suddenly got switched over to a pure melee DPS role? It's bad enough they knocked us down an entire armor class but the flaws are starting to show more and more.