Finreal Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 If you don't have a healer, playing a tank spec VGaurd is painfull. You do poor DPS and die like a fly because your shield and armour only work against certain abilitites, leaving you wide open to these attacks, with no trade off for the lack of defence. In Warhammer, my Swordmaster (worst tank in the game) had about 60% chance to avoid hits with a shield. Here in Battlemaster, I have about 15%. I can't mitigate guard damage either meaning that if I do my job, I die like a fly. (unless you have a healer who cares) It's very tempting to just spec DPS and not bother trying to be a tank unless you have your premade out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikinisunday Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 WoW warriors not built for pvp!? LMAO BS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ngamok Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Guard someone and Taunt / AoE Taunt to make damage output for enemy lower. Other than than, soak up the damage as best you can with high armor. Tanks are good for this in warzones. Lot of people want the tanks to be dps gods like warriors in WoW. I am a tank spec Vanguard. I stay with it even on Ilum or PvP because when they target me, it takes them awhile to hammer me down. The whole time I am guarding someone and using my AoE ranged taunt on cooldown, mortar volley and sticky grenade to do some damage to crowds. Waiting on Dual Spec to go DPS as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 As a darkness hybrid I absolutely love playing my assassin(47) in PvP and I really enjoy the role that he fills. Guarding ball carriers, guarding healers, taunting, pulling ball carriers back into the mass of our team, holding consoles in alderaan, soaking damage, running the ball in hutt ball, etc. I definitely feel that I add more to the team as a tankassin than as dmg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LokiRin Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Just yesterday in Ilum on my way back to our base I run into an Imp on the way to central for some PlayerVsCrate. So i engage him and shortly after, like 5 seconds maybe, another Imp shows up. So i keep going, just for the hell of it to see if I can somehow pull out a win. I get the first guy down fairly quickly, and the second guy doesnt put up much of a fight (don't know if he was just not very good or what....). By the time i get the second guy down I'm sitting around 35-45% hp, the first I guy I killed shows up again. So I start going on him again, just as I'm about to get him down, he vanishes while I have a crit Project in the air (/sadface) and the second guy shows up again. I end up saying screw it and just vanishing myself because my guild was waiting for me to start our Tuesday Ops group and I still needed to go respec to DPS >.> Also, are you wearing full tank gear? Or DPS gear? It seems like if you enjoy the style of the tanking specs, but really aren't fond of the lack of DPS, throw on DPS gear. Yes you lose some of your tank stats, but many of those don't work against attacks in PVP. You still have all the talents of your tanking spec (I think Guardians have a %dmg reduction CD and maybe some armor/shielding talents?) but you are actually able to dish out some hurt while still maintaining a good leveling of tankyness. Im using entirely tank gear, though Ive got come centurian war leader armor now. I just dont see how some classes do 4000 dmg hits succesvily while im in heavy armor, shielded, good stats, AND all my skills going. And I can barely hit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broom Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Guard someone and Taunt / AoE Taunt to make damage output for enemy lower. Other than than, soak up the damage as best you can with high armor. Tanks are good for this in warzones. Lot of people want the tanks to be dps gods like warriors in WoW. I am a tank spec Vanguard. I stay with it even on Ilum or PvP because when they target me, it takes them awhile to hammer me down. The whole time I am guarding someone and using my AoE ranged taunt on cooldown, mortar volley and sticky grenade to do some damage to crowds. Waiting on Dual Spec to go DPS as well. Er... yeah, so taunt? It reduces enemy damage to OTHER players, but not damage to the tank. Anyone who knows anything knows to burn down the tank first. =p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptKloss Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 post cited in OP if correct on main count: IB in WAR was VERY fun class to play (expecially on free trial) extremly well made, rounded class with coherent useful abilities... nothing in SWTOR comes close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batslav Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 if u want to be tank with tank gear then its normal to have less dmg... tanks are best on huttball and warriors with their leaps are unstoppable there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tic- Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) post cited in OP if correct on main count: IB in WAR was VERY fun class to play (expecially on free trial) extremly well made, rounded class with coherent useful abilities... nothing in SWTOR comes close The amusing thing for me is, this was taken about a specific class (guardian), with a specific function (tanking), in a thread about a completley different topic (why so many people are playing commandos, sages, and their counters) I wasn't talking about a dps specced tanked, (folks showing screens with 530k dam, and 17k prot, is not the type of tank i am playing) i wasn't talking about Vanguards, or any other tank in particular. I wasn't disputing the value, or the fact i could spec it for dps, or i could be a tank from another class...I was talking about the "fun" factor of a specific class, and purpose, for me. I could have been more clear on the last line i suppose, but i wasn't aware it would be picked apart in a 20 page thread of its own.... But i guess its a L2F problem but thank you OP Edited February 22, 2012 by Tic- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryca Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 As a vanguard its to die to DOTS since we have no way to cleanse them correct? Or is it to mitigate less damage than the light armor users? I'm confused between the two. It's to hide in the back and harpoon people into fire and acid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeseblaster Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 It's to hide in the back and harpoon people into fire and acid. Talk about fun!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravzar Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 LOLRavage... dps spec tanks in WAR (in particular chosen and kotbs) had pretty good dps plus uber utility.. and they could still guard -_- Ravage didn't do damage that couldn't be easily healed. Compare a chosen to a BW, WH, or Slayer. A chosens DPS was somewhat laughable compared to those classes. If a Chosen did go full out DPS spec then they were super squishy too as they lost a lot of their armour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryca Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Talk about fun!! I know!!! With the investment of only 4 talent points you too can be the cheesy jerk off with the harpoon gun the imps are cursing about in vent or even chat!!! Act now while supplies last!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggz Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Breaking this conversation out from another thread: We would not be "lacking" if people understood our value. There are lots of times I do my job and turn the tide of games but it is not something that people notice on the scoreboards. On my guardian I can usually hold an objective long enough for my friends to get there if it is attacked. Even when I am DPS specced. The tank is best suited to this role but you don't see much glory on the scoreboards so you leave the game feeling you did not add much. Even if your role was pivotal to the victory. I'm a healer and I want to say without good tanks im nothing. I get swarmed and put down in seconds in 50 PvP. But if I have a tank friend it's different. They throw guard on me and go distract an incoming group and I keep him alive and dps burns mobs. Too many times tanks just throw guard On someone random and go into a dps mindset. When tanks tank in PvP they make everything run smoothly and groups usually win. That's why I always vote my tanks MVP in matches because when tanks actually tank and guard objectives they are the MVP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tic- Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) I'm a healer and I want to say without good tanks im nothing. I get swarmed and put down in seconds in 50 PvP. But if I have a tank friend it's different. They throw guard on me and go distract an incoming group and I keep him alive and dps burns mobs. Too many times tanks just throw guard On someone random and go into a dps mindset. When tanks tank in PvP they make everything run smoothly and groups usually win. That's why I always vote my tanks MVP in matches because when tanks actually tank and guard objectives they are the MVP Again, I found the Guardian tank lacking in fun, not its role (because its lacking in tankiness? I dunno.) I have no idea why the OP took my post from another thread which had nothing to do about tanking, and essentially asked if "I" knew what the role of a tank was in PvP. Will i role another tank? Yes, probably, but not right now, i wanted to try something different. I pretty much said i enjoyed tanking in PvP, but didn't find my guardian "fun" in its current state. Personal taste. One of my biggest gripes about tanking in general, is when i try and guard someone, and another tank has a guard on them but are on the other side of the map (as it were), so i cannot stick my guard on them. Not a design issue, more of a learn to tank issue. Edited February 24, 2012 by Tic- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nethershadow Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 One of the ways is which a tank performs a group defensive role is by taking a good amount of damage to kill, right? I think most people that find a low fun level in pvp tanking are of that opinion. If i am understanding your stance right then; People that find tanks ´boring´ because they are high survivability and low damage should not be playing tanks ever. The people that want to play a tank that can tank and do high dps all have imba issues of wanting to play superman in any game. WAR imo had it right for tanks, you were tough and hard to kill but you didnt do amazing damage (cept maybe ironbreaker). But you were a tank, you were tough as hell and made life difficult for those that ignored your presence. This game unfortunately, lets you go tank stance while specing dps talents and gear making it so you get the best of damage and mitigation alike in pvp. Both damage and mitigation are too good on both fronts for one spec when other classes have to be dps or healer, but they add in the survivability of a tank into either of those roles like tanks can. I play a Veng Jugger and i make use of tank stance while speccing for dps via talents and gear. Tank stance needs to have more limitations to it like the Sin just got pretty much preventing them from getting the best of both worlds by adding a couple extra caveats to talents. Side note, i think it is very silly that a Veng Jugger is just as good or imo better tank than the tank tree immortal, pvp or pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nethershadow Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 if u want to be tank with tank gear then its normal to have less dmg... tanks are best on huttball and warriors with their leaps are unstoppable there If you are saying tanks in tank gear are even more unstoppable then i think you are very wrong. In pvp if you are a tank in tank gear you just dont know how little that does for you. A dps tank is just as survivable in most cases to a pure tank. Those secondary tank stats that tank gear gives you are only affect by 2 classes (both of which have 1 spec that focuses on abilities that bypass secondary tank stats like most other classes) so in the end you are only vastly gimping yourself as a tank IF you use tank gear. I dont know what the devs were smoking when they designed the mitigation for pvp and tank gear being so useless, but if you havent spent the time to get tank gear yet in pvp, then dont and do yourself a favor and get dps gear for your tank. You will be much happier in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryca Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 If i am understanding your stance right then; People that find tanks ´boring´ because they are high survivability and low damage should not be playing tanks ever. The people that want to play a tank that can tank and do high dps all have imba issues of wanting to play superman in any game. WAR imo had it right for tanks, you were tough and hard to kill but you didnt do amazing damage (cept maybe ironbreaker). But you were a tank, you were tough as hell and made life difficult for those that ignored your presence. This game unfortunately, lets you go tank stance while specing dps talents and gear making it so you get the best of damage and mitigation alike in pvp. Both damage and mitigation are too good on both fronts for one spec when other classes have to be dps or healer, but they add in the survivability of a tank into either of those roles like tanks can. I play a Veng Jugger and i make use of tank stance while speccing for dps via talents and gear. Tank stance needs to have more limitations to it like the Sin just got pretty much preventing them from getting the best of both worlds by adding a couple extra caveats to talents. Side note, i think it is very silly that a Veng Jugger is just as good or imo better tank than the tank tree immortal, pvp or pve. I don't care how much damage my tank does (and apparently my vanguard does about half the damage of my gunslinger friend according to a discussion we had the other day). I want the option to spec for durability and really notice a difference. I want to hear for once someone say 'why are you attacking the tank'. Not to say that I completely hate playing a 'tank' in this game but I sure don't feel like a tank in pvp. I am a dps that dies a little slower and does less damage. I have some nice tools to use to help my team mates. It is what it is and probably won't change anytime soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prolyfic Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) I dont know what the devs were smoking when they designed the mitigation for pvp and tank gear being so useless, but if you havent spent the time to get tank gear yet in pvp, then dont and do yourself a favor and get dps gear for your tank. You will be much happier in the end. I'm kinda curious if you spent the time to get the tank gear either imo I think you should get the gear for the role you want to play. I have the tank gear and I'm very happy with it in pvp. I dont even know what it feels like to not get top 3 in 50 wzs more than once a night queing solo. why are you attacking the tank very few ppl will attack me first, and when I'm last target standing, unless I'm getting swamped they usually wont kill me before more teammates arrive or I reach them. I rarely if ever get caught in a 1v1/1v2 I cant either win or escape from, or survive until heals arrives. FWIW I played a tank chosen in WAR and feel like I have almost as much defense but WAY more offense. In WAR I couldnt kill some classes no matter what without help. It just gave this sense of futility even trying. It's just not like that with my PT. Edited February 24, 2012 by Prolyfic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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