MercArcher Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 There is nothing competitive about this warzone. It ends in a tie unless one of the teams is awful. Any form of cooperation on a team with basic coordination means it is impossible to ever take the first door. This does not make for interesting PvP. Please say Voidstar will be removed from the ranked PvP queue when we get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natharon Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 you simply can opt not to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirgiI Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Then please take hutball out as well, because operatives are beyond useless in that wz. Brb no knockbacks, no gap closers, no sprint. Oh wait, we have stealth, which apparently has been ninja nerfed last patch because now I have people seeing me from 30 meters away. Not to mention if a force user places a dot on you it's gg. So yeah, Alderran should be the only ranked WZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercArcher Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 So yeah, Alderran should be the only ranked WZ. Only if it gets a major redesign. 2 second fly backs to the side points need to be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefishdude Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Dear BioWare, Please remove all the warzones from the ranking system. People can join a "warzone" and just chat about what they'd be doing if there were actually any rated warzones. Me - look, I'm capping the node Imp - no you're not, I just spammed you with tracer missiles. Me - I just blocked your missiles with my spell...err, wrong game. You're right, I'm dead. It would go something like that. Thanks you p.s. everybody has their least favorite warzones. the cure for that is to make more of them then you'd play voidstar less and less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercArcher Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Dear BioWare, Please remove all the warzones from the ranking system. People can join a "warzone" and just chat about what they'd be doing if there were actually any rated warzones. Me - look, I'm capping the node Imp - no you're not, I just spammed you with tracer missiles. Me - I just blocked your missiles with my spell...err, wrong game. You're right, I'm dead. It would go something like that. Thanks you p.s. everybody has their least favorite warzones. the cure for that is to make more of them then you'd play voidstar less and less. You're quite incorrect. Voidstar is my favorite warzone as it is the fastest to win vs pubs, that being said pubs are terrible. Vs any kind of organized team it is a tie every game. It is IMPOSSIBLE to cap a single door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilintar Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 You're quite incorrect. Voidstar is my favorite warzone as it is the fastest to win vs pubs, that being said pubs are terrible. Vs any kind of organized team it is a tie every game. It is IMPOSSIBLE to cap a single door. Of course it's possible. The problem is, it requires a ton of unpopular tactics that some people just can't force themselves to do. Attacking on Voidstar is all about burst damage and trading kills. You have to exploit the fact that (a) they have a respawn cooldown, you don't, and (b) you pick the target and they have to react. So, the goal should be to kill the defenders as fast as possible, even trading kills in the process. However, that's where it starts to break down because tons of people are completely unwilling and unable to sacrifice themselves for the good of the team (since it'll break their perfect X-0 kills/deaths record). So, instead of fighting to the last second to get the enemy healer down to 10% so that a teammate can finish him off, they break off and speed run to get the healing buff or hide behind a corner to heal and act as if attacking works the same as defending (which is all about survivability). tl;dr: defending on Voidstar you can play selfish and still do it, attacking required coordination and unselfishness, which makes it hard for a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seurot Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Please say Voidstar will be removed from the ranked PvP queue when we get it. I'd say just remove Voidstar altogether. That opening speeder thing makes me rage even before the game starts. And then the whole warzone is so horrendous for melee anyway. Its rocks and tracer missiles coming from all directions at me usually. I can't even LoS with the pillars cause there's usually all ranged dps everywhere shooting from every direction it seems. I don't hesitate to leave that warzone if it doesnt' even look right in the first 10sec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercArcher Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Of course it's possible. The problem is, it requires a ton of unpopular tactics that some people just can't force themselves to do. Attacking on Voidstar is all about burst damage and trading kills. You have to exploit the fact that (a) they have a respawn cooldown, you don't, and (b) you pick the target and they have to react. So, the goal should be to kill the defenders as fast as possible, even trading kills in the process. However, that's where it starts to break down because tons of people are completely unwilling and unable to sacrifice themselves for the good of the team (since it'll break their perfect X-0 kills/deaths record). So, instead of fighting to the last second to get the enemy healer down to 10% so that a teammate can finish him off, they break off and speed run to get the healing buff or hide behind a corner to heal and act as if attacking works the same as defending (which is all about survivability). tl;dr: defending on Voidstar you can play selfish and still do it, attacking required coordination and unselfishness, which makes it hard for a lot of people. Problem is vs any coordinated team they are going to have a guard/AoE taunt up as soon as you start to focus someone and then you're burst of 30000 damage becomes 4500 damage which is a single heal. Not to mention with the respawn the way it is currently you're not going to be able to wipe the full group before a respawn happens. If you can wipe a full group in the span of 1 respawn then they are not a good team (only talking about actual competitive teams here). Once you get up into the non casual brackets you will see a 0-0 score in voidstar 95+% of the time I'm betting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeochins Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Then please take hutball out as well, because operatives are beyond useless in that wz. Brb no knockbacks, no gap closers, no sprint. Oh wait, we have stealth, which apparently has been ninja nerfed last patch because now I have people seeing me from 30 meters away. Not to mention if a force user places a dot on you it's gg. So yeah, Alderran should be the only ranked WZ. Fail Operative right here! In competitive huttball - Premade vs Premade a stealthed Operative in the goal line can make or break a tie. Other strategies include stun intercepting. Stunning in the fire pits. Peeling off healers. Edited February 22, 2012 by Yeochins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kckkryptonite Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) I agree, Voidstar has terrible design. I like the other 2 WZ's much better. You either have heals or you don't. Edited February 22, 2012 by kckkryptonite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblongship Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Only if it gets a major redesign. 2 second fly backs to the side points need to be removed. So you have a problem with 2 out of the 3 warzones...rrriiiiggghhhhttttt RANKED WZs = HUTTBALL!!!! YEAH!!! Sounds awesome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordZanos Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Then please take hutball out as well, because operatives are beyond useless in that wz. Brb no knockbacks, no gap closers, no sprint. Oh wait, we have stealth, which apparently has been ninja nerfed last patch because now I have people seeing me from 30 meters away. Not to mention if a force user places a dot on you it's gg. So yeah, Alderran should be the only ranked WZ. From my experience, healing operatives make one of the best ball carriers in the game due to their ability to heal on the move without being generally interruptable. And I like voidstar, but two competent teams generally don't get anywhere, that much is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogmar Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Personally I like Voidstar for pick-up play, but I agree. Casuals are probably going to disagree, but for competitive/ranked PvP, defending is too easy. First and foremost DoTs allow players to defend against 3+:1 odds long enough for their team to reinforce. 8s plant in Voidstar with such a small area to defend. Honestly if you have a good comp (2+ healers) and good players, the bomb should never be planted. You are going to see top rated teams stalemate with each other all the time, so you will have to luck out and be the first team on offense. As for the other maps... Alderaan probably takes some strategy/skill within the first few minutes, but once a GOOD team has 2 points, good luck taking them back. Side points are impossible to take back if, again, you are facing a quality team. Middle point, as long as the other team has 2 healers + players to keep them safe, you aren't going to be able to push them out before they can equalize your numbers. Then you are either stuck there until everyone can die and push another point, or you need to all run together for the other point at which point the enemy can just match you. Being able to jump over the wall both ways is really good for defense and terrible for offense. I still have yet to see a team in unorganized play come back from being down 2X to 1X due to 3-capping being impossible against even some of the worst teams. Going to be worse for high rated ones. The "comeback" factor which creates excitement is basically missing from this mode. Huttball is probably the only one where it's not impossible to play one side (offense or defense). Edited February 22, 2012 by Rogmar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delcon Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 how can you have hutball in a ranked WZ , its not deathmatch and its not football , it should have its own league then people might actually play the objective more, that leaves atm 2 wz , for a pvp player openworld fighting is garbage lackluster and boring does not leave alot to stay for , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilintar Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Problem is vs any coordinated team they are going to have a guard/AoE taunt up as soon as you start to focus someone and then you're burst of 30000 damage becomes 4500 damage which is a single heal. Not to mention with the respawn the way it is currently you're not going to be able to wipe the full group before a respawn happens. If you can wipe a full group in the span of 1 respawn then they are not a good team (only talking about actual competitive teams here). Once you get up into the non casual brackets you will see a 0-0 score in voidstar 95+% of the time I'm betting. Well, focusing someone is just the first step, then it's a game of action/reaction played between both teams. Currently in pickup games, tanks are really underused on the offensive side. Tanks with their arsenal of interrupts are excellent tools for keeping healers out of the equation while surviving long enough for their team to finish the job. Of course, if a tank puts up an AoE taunt, you focus down the tank first while making sure the healers can't get heals on him. Sure, that's much more complicated teamwork than just focusing fire, but that's what rated warzones are supposed to be - really good teams playing each other - right? Only if it so happens that after such teams clash repeatedly, it's still a stalemete, I'd do something - but not just remove Voidstar, but balance it, for example lengthening the respawn route or the respawn lockout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manigma Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I'd say just remove Voidstar altogether. That opening speeder thing makes me rage even before the game starts. And then the whole warzone is so horrendous for melee anyway. Its rocks and tracer missiles coming from all directions at me usually. I can't even LoS with the pillars cause there's usually all ranged dps everywhere shooting from every direction it seems. I don't hesitate to leave that warzone if it doesnt' even look right in the first 10sec. haha very true, also hitting space bar and delay to join wz, so pointless and unavoidable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnugthreeonefive Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 You are completely underestimating the skill of premade groups for upcoming ranked WZ. Defenders spawn in 30 sec intervals. Attackers should be aware of spawn windows, and burn down enemies collectively in due manner. Coupled with a bunch of CC abilities, it is totally possible to win Voidstar. As another pointed out, defenders having to react is a huge drawback also, ie. basically having to spare an entire player guarding an empty door against stealthed attackers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariuszPol Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Of course it's possible. The problem is, it requires a ton of unpopular tactics that some people just can't force themselves to do. Attacking on Voidstar is all about burst damage and trading kills. You have to exploit the fact that (a) they have a respawn cooldown, you don't, and (b) you pick the target and they have to react. So, the goal should be to kill the defenders as fast as possible, even trading kills in the process. However, that's where it starts to break down because tons of people are completely unwilling and unable to sacrifice themselves for the good of the team (since it'll break their perfect X-0 kills/deaths record). So, instead of fighting to the last second to get the enemy healer down to 10% so that a teammate can finish him off, they break off and speed run to get the healing buff or hide behind a corner to heal and act as if attacking works the same as defending (which is all about survivability). tl;dr: defending on Voidstar you can play selfish and still do it, attacking required coordination and unselfishness, which makes it hard for a lot of people. And you start arming the doors and one pain in the *** Operative that was in stealth will throw one bomb and stop you. Then he will poison you before you realize what happened. And for pure 18s you CAN'T DO A THING. It's standard tactic for us if enemy is just stronger. Stealth guarding each doors. We can hold you long enough so our team mates can spawn again. We have quite different tactic. 1 good player is going for one doors and rest go for second. We take advantage of the fact that enemy must SPLIT while we don't. So I make them busy for 2-3 minutes and 2-4 players is trying to kill me (i'm operative but i must admint - healer here would do better). 7 people kill those who fight on the other side and they arm the doors. Work every time if my enemy don't split and just keep pressure on the other doors. My advantage is that in 1vs1 I can kill anyone so they MUST send at least 2 people to me. And right combination of my stuns, flashbank, vanish etc is doing right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I assume because SWTOR has an entire team dedicated to pvp that there are a dozen voidstar changes ready to patch live to better balance offense/defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aarka Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 With pre-made: This warzone is kind of fun. In a pug: The defending stage of voidstar is the most frustrating BG/WZ/WF/Scenario I've played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 At least on the Swiftsure 10-49, voidstar pickup groups are pretty competitive, they rarely end with anyone getting the datacon. It's probably the worst warzone overall, especially because you only need a couple people playing ring-around-the-rose-column dotting people until the spiteful magic space wall lets their friends rejoin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilintar Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 And you start arming the doors and one pain in the *** Operative that was in stealth will throw one bomb and stop you. Then he will poison you before you realize what happened. And for pure 18s you CAN'T DO A THING. Ever heard of cleansing abilities? That's the problem, people make blanket statements about certain tactics in the game when they haven't explored all the options available yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 And "just cure it, duh" isn't a blanket statement? DoTs are extremely powerful, and most of them are instant cast. Cure me if you want, but you sir may definitely have another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicuspid Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) it'll be fine the reason that right now it bogs down at 0-0 is both teams will be saddled with some fail dps from random pugs who do not dps well, do not cap when given the chance, do not cc when someone else is capping, and break ccs when someone else is capping Edited February 22, 2012 by bicuspid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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