Bosseking Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Horrible, horrible idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 No it doesn't. You can have the best raid gear in the game, but if you don't know your class very well and don't have good reflexes and panic when someone ambushes you, you're going to lose. You need to stop thinking that gear is the point of PvP; it isn't. You need to stop thinking that having good gear is what makes someone successful at PvP; it isn't. Gear > skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaskaszh Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Then why even have pvp gear? If it is going to be equal to pve gear? You might as well take it out all together. As I said, if you *must* have PvP rewards, then make them purely cosmetic; so the best PvE lightsaber is magenta and has good stats. The best PvP lightsaber will have a dark crimson blade, with purple lightning flowing up and down the blade, and generates a shower of red-and-purple sparks whenever it hits something. There you have it; something that shows off how good you are, without skewing the game balance one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwookie Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 As I said, if you *must* have PvP rewards, then make them purely cosmetic; so the best PvE lightsaber is magenta and has good stats. The best PvP lightsaber will have a dark crimson blade, with purple lightning flowing up and down the blade, and generates a shower of red-and-purple sparks whenever it hits something. There you have it; something that shows off how good you are, without skewing the game balance one way or the other. If they're equivalent to raid gear PVErs will complain. If it's inferior than raiders will have a significant edge equivalent to the current system you don't like. Also 0 rewards kind of removes the whole RPG aspect of the game design. Even FPS aren't made like that anymore. People want progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenthum Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Hilarious. Bad, but hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaskaszh Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 You take out warzones and you basically kill the reason most pvpers play their 50s. The really strange thing is that this wasn't the case before World of Warcraft came along; games like Ultima Online and Everquest had open world PvP with no special PvP gear involved. You used the same skills and the same armor and weapons that you used in the PvE portion of the game. Mind you they also had some pretty stiff penalties for losing (losing one piece of non-bagged gear in EQ and losing, well, everything on you in UO as I recall). In any case, this whole warzone thing doesn't prove skill in the slightest. Battlemaster doesn't mean you're any good, it just means you have participated in enough warzones- win or lose, doesn't matter -to grind out the commendations you needed to get the set. But skill? Hardly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaskaszh Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Gear > skill. Only in your mind. I'll put my level 29 Shadow in greens up against a level 29 Shadow in blues any day of the week, and I'll win at least half the fights. According to your logic, he should stomp me every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaskaszh Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Horrible, horrible idea. Only because you're addicted to gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirakirakira Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 if you took gear progression out of raiding would a raiders go raiding as much? -> hell no the same principle will apply to pvp. if there was no progression then why would you even go to ilum because i like the 1 fps when there is a group fight? hell no wz queues will take longer and longer, as people have things to do that get rewarded for their efforts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaskaszh Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 If they're equivalent to raid gear PVErs will complain. If it's inferior than raiders will have a significant edge equivalent to the current system you don't like. Also 0 rewards kind of removes the whole RPG aspect of the game design. Even FPS aren't made like that anymore. People want progression. You get progression from PvE. You fight other players because, well, you want to fight other players. Sadly (and I fully expected this but hey, I tried) I'm wasting my breath. For better or worse, the majority of people playing MMOs today come from WoW, and that game has taught people that PvP means getting "Super Special Skillful Show-offy Rare Stuffies". The act of fighting other players isn't even relevant; it's all about the reward, stoopid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzone Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 1- Make any rewards for PvP cosmetic; titles, outrageous-looking gear, ranking on a leaderboard and so forth...but absolutely no XP, special stats or abilities. You fight for bragging rights, or not at all. 2- No PvP balancing. You balance the game around PvE (since PvE is SWTOR's main focus) and PvPers can choose to fight with the same abilities they use in PvE (which they understand and have used to level up), or not at all. 3- Make it clear that the PvP is there as a diversion, like crafting or player housing. It's not the focus of the game, nor is it meant to be an e-sport, and never will be. You fight other players for fun because you feel like it, or not at all. There you go. No gear grind, no balance issues, no "fix this or else" complaints. You fight for the fun of it, or you go play something else. It really is that simple. This is a troll post right? I mean, you can't be serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwookie Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The really strange thing is that this wasn't the case before World of Warcraft came along; games like Ultima Online and Everquest had open world PvP with no special PvP gear involved. You used the same skills and the same armor and weapons that you used in the PvE portion of the game. Mind you they also had some pretty stiff penalties for losing (losing one piece of non-bagged gear in EQ and losing, well, everything on you in UO as I recall). In any case, this whole warzone thing doesn't prove skill in the slightest. Battlemaster doesn't mean you're any good, it just means you have participated in enough warzones- win or lose, doesn't matter -to grind out the commendations you needed to get the set. But skill? Hardly. Welcome to present day. Stop living in the past. This game is heavily instanced which breaks world pvp. Everquest world pvp was nothing special at all. UO was a gankers dream no serious pvp there either. If you think the gear is the only thing that makes a difference why are you even PVPing? You seem to be confused thinking that gear doesn't make a difference at lvl 29 but makes a huge difference at 50 when that really isn't the case. You hit harder, you survive longer but you're not necessarily going to win your warzone if you have zero team play and zero skill. Like I said I don't really care about the gear. I'd actually prefer no gear but due to design decisions like PVE tiers you kind of have to have PVP gear to compensate or PVE raiders will just roflstomp because it really is that much better than normal non raid gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lugh Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Welcome to present day. Stop living in the past. This game is heavily instanced which breaks world pvp. Everquest world pvp was nothing special at all. UO was a gankers dream no serious pvp there either. If you think the gear is the only thing that makes a difference why are you even PVPing? You seem to be confused thinking that gear doesn't make a difference at lvl 29 but makes a huge difference at 50 when that really isn't the case. You hit harder, you survive longer but you're not necessarily going to win your warzone if you have zero team play and zero skill. Like I said I don't really care about the gear. I'd actually prefer no gear but due to design decisions like PVE tiers you kind of have to have PVP gear to compensate or PVE raiders will just roflstomp because it really is that much better than normal non raid gear. There was tons of fun pvp in UO you obviously weren't part of the Carebears v gankers on Chesapeake it was pretty epic stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xippin Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 What killed the game was Mythic's promise to try and balance everything perfectly so that the rewards they offered you would be equally within everyone's reach. They failed to deliver on their promise, so the game died off. If you promise something to paying customers and are incapable of delivering, you get complaints. Solution in this case? Remove the source of the complaints, i.e. achieving an unattainable "perfect balance" in the pursuit of unsatisfactory rewards. You fight other players to "test your skill" and "for the thrill of the challenge", right? Ergo, you get no special rewards and, if your class is somehow weaker and you still win...greater challenge, greater satisfaction. No? EDIT: You know what I find really sad? Players reading this thread and thinking, "Pffff...like I'm gonna PvP unless I get some awesome gear out of it!!!" Those players who completely miss the point of PvP are what kills PvP in MMOs...not the developers. No, most people pvp for more then 1 reason, just like you pve for more then 1 reason. Reasons to pvp Challenge Progression (Gear) Reasons to pve Challenge Progression (Gear) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirCruCial Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Its funny you say this. So no gear for PvP, no XP for PvP, and only way to get gear is through PvE? I can see you are a hard core PvE person. However this is the year 2012. You are still stuck in the 90's. Its time for you to embrace change. Almost any game from here on out is going to have to have PvP in it to make it successful. This game obviously was made for PvP so I dont know where you get that idea from. If it wasnt, then there wouldnt have been a planet just for PvP, nor warzones for PvP. The Devs said they didnt realize there would be this many people doing PvP and that was their fault. They didnt say different. Your trying to tell the people that pay money to play the game that wants to PvP but nope, you cant have gear, nope you dont get xp. Speaking of Xp, why in the world would that matter anyways if people gained it or not. Either way, You wouldnt spend your money on PvE to not get gear. To spend hours grinding out the content and get nothing for it now would you. Will classes be balanced ever? Probably not. And not having PvP wont help that fact either. Even if its PvE there will still be classes doing the different amounts of damage and a class would still be OP in PvE. You want the game bread and butter. Black and white. You may play the game like that, which is no problem to me, its your money. But a lot of people dont want some boring game to play that everybody can do the same thing as everybody else. Point is, PvP is like the Nintendo back in the 80's. Its the new wave of the future, only to MMO's. And as sad as some people might like to think, World of Warcraft did set up something almost every MMO is going to have to match, or come close to. There is a reason why was, or may still be the largest subscription base out there. So a lot of people will be coming from that. Edited February 22, 2012 by SirCruCial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeld Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 "The one true solution to all PvP problems" w/o a comprehensive revamp of Ilum is just not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekajjj Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 What you're failing to realize is there are people who PvP specifically for the gear - what happens to that community? Your PvP motto of "fight other players" pretty much just becomes "or don't". I'm all for an ungeared PvP arena (played UO on release), but it'll never happen again. Besides that, if you're saying gear is irrelevant (your Jedi shadow in greens beating one in blues) - why does it matter that it is even included? A champ piece compared to BM isn't -that- big of an upgrade (I understand a FULL set of BM would be a nice little boost). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaskaszh Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Welcome to present day. Stop living in the past. This game is heavily instanced which breaks world pvp. Everquest world pvp was nothing special at all. UO was a gankers dream no serious pvp there either. If you think the gear is the only thing that makes a difference why are you even PVPing? You seem to be confused thinking that gear doesn't make a difference at lvl 29 but makes a huge difference at 50 when that really isn't the case. You hit harder, you survive longer but you're not necessarily going to win your warzone if you have zero team play and zero skill. Like I said I don't really care about the gear. I'd actually prefer no gear but due to design decisions like PVE tiers you kind of have to have PVP gear to compensate or PVE raiders will just roflstomp because it really is that much better than normal non raid gear. No to everything you just said. You're just suffering from a bad case of "whooosh" and simply are unable to picture doing anything in an MMO for the fun of it. You just have to have that carrot. It's kind of sad, really. And if by "living in the past" you mean "remembering when beating another player meant finding them, using the area's geography and your class's abilities to win" instead of pressing the "Find me PVP!!!!" button and then mashing a bunch of keys (which is really all WoW and SWTOR PvP is anyway), well I chose to live in the past. In any case, enjoy the thread. I'll be vacating it now. Oh, please do try to be gentle with Bioware. They're really busy trying to figure out how to balance what can't be balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redderic Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 i like to pvp. i like to be rewarded for my effort. gear is NOT hard to get. the fact that you are talking about putting your lvl 29 in greans vs a 29 in blues indicates that you are not a level 50 on any character and as such are scared to death to try to compete against others who are and are geared. this idea is completely horrible and when i shared it with my guild we all enjoyed a nice laugh. just so you know, i have a lvl 50 BM. I am completely geared out in BM gear and i guarentee no matter what class you ever chose to play i would demolish you and your"skill" so bad you would run here asking for nerfs or buffs. just because people like to have gear does not mean that we are not skilled. you completely make yourself sound ignorant and childish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkened_Might Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Lol, great troll thread man, really, you are trolling lots and lots of people, bravo. And before you pretend to defend yourself, and ask the question "How is this a troll thread?" because this is one of the most retarded ideas I have ever heard of, and is so insanely stupid that it can't be a serious thread. Edited February 22, 2012 by Darkened_Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redderic Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 whats really funny is how this guy has another thread started by himself about how its a good thing he is not primarily a pvper. guess what. a lot of us are. if you want to feel all special and on par with pvpers with your raid gear go ahead and try. raid gear and pvp gear are pretty close to eachother except for the fact that raid gear is easier to get. sadly you will qq about how its because of gear that you lose to a person who primarily PVPs. guess what... your lame pve tactics wont work in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyritwind Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Only a PvE player could come up with this 'solution' lol You seem sincere, but that's like asking pve player's to raid just because it's fun, but you don't get any loot. I mean why not right? Why should you get loot? Getting together with friends to kill monsters should be fun enough right? Who care's if you find out the class you leveled to 50 is gimp and no one wants you to join your raid right? You can go grind random mobs in the open world for no xp, no credits and no loot right? How long would you play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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