Corrosive Injection Kit relic vs Relentless Winds relic

[Thunn]

As the title says, I'm comparing the following two items:

 

Corrosive Injection Kit - http://www.torhead.com/item/4wqZInz/corrosive-injection-kit

 

"Equip: Damaging attacks have a 30% chance to deal 156 additional internal damage to the target. This effect can only occur once every 4.5 seconds, and shares this limit with similar damage-dealing effects"

 

Relentless Winds - http://www.torhead.com/item/6meEN4C/relentless-winds

 

"Equip: Damaging attacks have a 30% chance to deal 224 additional kinetic damage to the target. This effect can only occur once every 4.5 seconds, and shares this limit with similar damage-dealing effects"

 

Both are excellent Marauder relics; due to their restriction it's probably best not to equip both (I'm using my Matrix Cube M7-G0 in the other slot). Relentless Winds obviously has a bit more endurance and procs higher damages. What I'm wondering though is if the fact that the CIK procs internal damage vs the kinetic damage of RW, that it might not be more desirable? As I understand things kinetic is mitigated by armor and shields, but internal might not be?

 

If someone could shed some light on the differences in the damage types, that would be excellent.

[Carbonated]

if you mouse over damage reduction from armor in your character sheet it tells you which is reduced etc and by what.

 

generally you will have a 5% reduction thanks to sith inq buff. kinetic is reduced by armor along with 1 other which i fail to recall at this time. Internal is not on the armor reduction(iirc) I use the internal one, It can crit and sadly doesnt count as a bleed.

[Adill]

I was wondering the same thing...which is better for carnage spec? Considering they share a cooldown with similar attacks, will ataru form constantly proccing keep these from being all that great? Posting from a phone now, and i forget if ataru form is kinetic damage, but if it is, will the relic with internal dmg procs share a cooldown with ataru procs?

[Thunn]

I've been testing this a bit, switching them out in the last op I ran. It's really hard to tell for sure w/o a combat log, but from what I can see, the internal damage seems to work better against bosses.

 

Next up, some testing in PVP. Given the number of low-armor types I run into, the kinetic damage might be more effective there. Then again, there are so many BH/Troopers these days in heavy armor, it's possible internal might be better there as well...

[AcaciaDragon]

As the title says, I'm comparing the following two items:

 

Corrosive Injection Kit - http://www.torhead.com/item/4wqZInz/corrosive-injection-kit

 

"Equip: Damaging attacks have a 30% chance to deal 156 additional internal damage to the target. This effect can only occur once every 4.5 seconds, and shares this limit with similar damage-dealing effects"

 

Relentless Winds - http://www.torhead.com/item/6meEN4C/relentless-winds

 

"Equip: Damaging attacks have a 30% chance to deal 224 additional kinetic damage to the target. This effect can only occur once every 4.5 seconds, and shares this limit with similar damage-dealing effects"

 

Both are excellent Marauder relics; due to their restriction it's probably best not to equip both (I'm using my Matrix Cube M7-G0 in the other slot). Relentless Winds obviously has a bit more endurance and procs higher damages. What I'm wondering though is if the fact that the CIK procs internal damage vs the kinetic damage of RW, that it might not be more desirable? As I understand things kinetic is mitigated by armor and shields, but internal might not be?

 

If someone could shed some light on the differences in the damage types, that would be excellent.

 

The green power and the green crit relic you can get from the dark side/light side vendors are better than both of those.

[Thunn]

The green power and the green crit relic you can get from the dark side/light side vendors are better than both of those.

 

Oh? And what would be your rationale for saying so?

[Adill]

None of the dark/light side vender relics are on par with the hard mode flashpoint or operation relics.

[Pappus]

I have seen those trinkets break my intimidating roar on a single target once, maybe it was some serious glitching or I somehow had a single stack of deadly saber on my target, but the latter is doubtable.

 

So be so kind and test it out before you go into that decision it works really awkward at times, e.g. in lava it will proc on you

[Morticoccus]

Well, the wind relic causes more direct damage but... Those corrosives do their magic slowly... =p

[hadoken]

Relentless Winds vs 30% Kinetic = Corrosive Injection Kit vs 0% Internal

 

So if you're talking pvp the Relentless Winds will hit for more against the majority of classes. PVE I don't really know what the armor rates are on mobs.

[AcaciaDragon]

Oh? And what would be your rationale for saying so?

 

224 or 154 damage every 4.5 seconds is not worth it. Compare it with Ataru Strikes, they hit for twice as much(given that relics ability does not scale with gear), and can crit. They also proc ALOT more often. 30% chance every 4.5 seconds, that means it can happen 1/3 of the time as Ataru, and has a lower chance to hit, for half the damage. It will probably only proc once every 9 seconds on average(4.5 Seconds after a previous one, 3 GCD's[4.5 seconds] needed to get 3 abilities out to try and proc it once). over the course of 2 minutes, means itll grant about 2-3k extra damage over the course of 2 minutes.

 

So say your not carnage, this is meant to only supplement your damage, the crit relic alone can make your big hitting moves(no matter what spec) hit for an extra 5-10k over the course of 12 seconds, and its on a 2 min Cool Down.

 

Annhilation may benefit from this if the bleeds can proc it, great increasing the proc rate, but it would only double the damage it could do, at most, 4-6k. The crit Relic is still better.

 

The power Relic is better than the crit relic.

 

Just because you get a relic from a Hard mode/op doesnt mean its better for you. That relic may be good for other classes, but a Marauder aint one of them. Use your head.

[Dreyvan]

These relics proc off any type of dmg whether it be bleeds, ataru proc ect. It really seems like it's 100% chance every 4.5 seconds. I have the 168 internal dmg one (dark energy surge) and with my surge it crits for about 296.

[AcaciaDragon]

These relics proc off any type of dmg whether it be bleeds, ataru proc ect. It really seems like it's 100% chance every 4.5 seconds. I have the 168 internal dmg one (dark energy surge) and with my surge it crits for about 296.

 

Even with a 30% chance to crit, the crit relic still does more given your surge.

[Dreyvan]

Oh, I'm not arguing with you or anything, I was really just letting you know that it procs off any type of dmg you do. It is very rare that you go more than a few seconds without seeing it proc, unless of course a phase change or something like lightning balls. Honestly I couldn't tell you which is better because i think it somewhat comes down to personal preference, do you want to have sustained dps from a relic or a use type relic with a 2 minute cooldown? To each their own I say.

[AcaciaDragon]

Oh, I'm not arguing with you or anything, I was really just letting you know that it procs off any type of dmg you do. It is very rare that you go more than a few seconds without seeing it proc, unless of course a phase change or something like lightning balls. Honestly I couldn't tell you which is better because i think it somewhat comes down to personal preference, do you want to have sustained dps from a relic or a use type relic with a 2 minute cooldown? To each their own I say.

 

Its good to know they do scale somewhat with gear. I was thinking this relic was similar to the one that dropped from Anubarak in 25 man in Wotlk.

[Dreyvan]

Its good to know they do scale somewhat with gear. I was thinking this relic was similar to the one that dropped from Anubarak in 25 man in Wotlk.

 

I agree, if these relics didn't scale with your crit and surge at the very least, I'd say they were pretty much worthless. Now if they made them benefit from talent points or your main stat, that would be pretty interesting. Sadly dark energy surge doesn't count as a bleed and doesn't get any benefits from annihilation talents and I haven't seen any difference in dmg or proc rate from switching back to carnage.

[Vegettopk]

Even with a 30% chance to crit, the crit relic still does more given your surge.

 

Sorry, but you are wrong. The math for these was worked out on the sithwarrior.com forums, and these proc relics are bis. The best choice for your second slot is believed to be a rakata relic with an augment.

[AcaciaDragon]

Sorry, but you are wrong. The math for these was worked out on the sithwarrior.com forums, and these proc relics are bis. The best choice for your second slot is believed to be a rakata relic with an augment.

 

Link the thread they talked about that in.

[Thunn]

To some extent I suppose it depends on how close you are to your crit cap. I'm typically the kind of person who favors constant, always-on items over clickies.

[Vegettopk]

Link the thread they talked about that in.

 

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Madness-Balance-Sorcerer-DPS-Compendium--573?page=22&highlight=pillar

 

It's about halfway down the page.

[Enosh_]

you guys sure it doesn't scale with gear?

because the tooltip on mine say 168 iirc, but I an getting yellow 181 numbers when using no dots, just assault and VS for testing this

 

edit: thinking about it, might be due to the 10% of juyo form? need to test it with a different stance

Edited February 27, 2012 by Enosh_

[AcaciaDragon]

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Madness-Balance-Sorcerer-DPS-Compendium--573?page=22&highlight=pillar

 

It's about halfway down the page.

 

No wonder i couldnt find it, its in the Sorcerer Forums. This is a great relic for them, but this is the Marauder forums. The relics MAY be good for annhilation, but not for the other specs. The relic is less effective simply due to use being melee.

[Lntsith]

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Annihilation-Watchmen-Compendium?page=2

 

For marauders relic calculating page is here.

[FINALBOSS]

I use the Energy damage one (Sith side--pretty sure the Kinetic one is for Repubs). They are pretty much identical. If a difference is there, it's pretty small. If you get either one to drop, stick with it and let others grab the other one. Once everyone has their relics you can go for the second one and play with em.

 

You'll be happy with either one.

[Vaahanian]

If you want to take a backseat approach to raiding, get a proc relic and keep your matrix cube and you'll have your easy lifestyle of equip and forget it.

 

If you want a more pro-active approach to raiding, BiS is a proc relic from NiM and if you are artifice a crit crafted power relic, otherwise the highest power use relic you can get. Also take this with some consideration, proc relics are great for continuous fights that you are probably going to be on a boss 90%+ of the time. Fights that don't allow you to have a high uptime on a boss or with very specific burn phases, double use relics will be more beneficial.

 

The internal vs. kinetic dmg issue. Most marauders will want the internal over kinetic due to our class having zero armor penetration outside of carnage spec's gore armor debuff window (in which case you might want the kinetic dmg, but lining up your gore buff just for a proc is most likely a waste of effort). Passing the kinetic dmg to your arsenal bounty hunters is a better idea due to them having a consant -35% armor just from their cylinder buff. Add in that most raid setups probably have multiple armor debuffs on the boss will show more gain for the kinetic proc relic and imo, gives it more reasonable place on any dps class that wants it (NOTE: only for armor debuff stacking heavy raids).

Edited March 16, 2012 by Vaahanian