People who ninja for their companions

[Emperor_Troll]

On Tarris group of 16 level 32-37 take down ancient one world boss.

 

3 agents in group. A nice purple protype drops clearly meant for agents. All roll need.

 

A sith assasin also rolls need and wins, saying he needed it for his companion.

 

 

***

 

don't blame player, blame the devs who implemented the silly need/greed system and their combat design that requires players to use companions most of the time when solo.

[MorgonKara]

That's why I never do World Bosses, Hardmode Flashpoints or Operations in pick-up-groups. My guild and the people I run with usually know what gear our groups need. That's the chance you take playing with random groups, people are likely to roll Need on any decent drops. Edited February 22, 2012 by MorgonKara

[Kaskava]

and you're trying to tell me this isn't the problem?

 

I'm telling you it's a problem with a murkier solution than any other loot issue I've seen. For all any of us know, BioWare is just going to let the players sort this out themselves.

 

i'm not saying it's ok to ninja. i am saying using the word ninja loosely can be irresponsible, since everyone has their own slightly different rules that they follow. who are you to tell me that i don't need something? i think i should know better than anyone else what i need.

 

Since I'm usually the group leader, I do. Roll on something I know you can't use, i.e Light Armor for Sith Warriors, and I'll kick you so fast your head will spin. A companion is not your character, and has no bearing on OPs and FPs. If you want something for a companion, speak up. It's that simple. If an actual character doesn't need it, fine. Take it.

 

this is the basic argument that keeps the ninja debate going. and it's really easy to fix it. just make it impossible. blizzard did it. so can bioware if they want to.

 

Unless they made everything spec-specific after I quit in Cata, it didn't really solve the problem.

 

don't get me wrong. i'm steadfastly against people who ninja, but you have to look at the situation, when it occurs, from an outside perspective. not from the perspective of a person who, in their own opinion, had more right to win a piece of loot than someone else.

 

No, I have to look at it as the group leader. Could that person actually use it for their character. The one that is currently in the instance. If yes, keep going. If no, kick and spam. Maybe other groups won't care. That's their choice. I do.

 

you also have to understand that in most cases, an incident of ninja can be boiled down to a misunderstanding of, or flat out ignorance of what the specific loot rules in a given situation actually are. a lot of people are new to mmo's.

 

There are usually tell-tale signs if someone is new. If someone is new, I might be a bit lenient. If I don't think so, I'm bringing down the hammer.

 

a lot of people are from underprivelaged countries where not everything is fair and equal. opinions on loot rules vary far more than people think they do.

 

If they're really from 'under-privileged' countries, I doubt they're playing TOR. Let alone worrying about loot.

[Grecanis]

I think the fact that the devs are planning on placing a restriction on need that doesn't include companions ..and giving them a roll of thier own that is lesser than need ..shows that they also concider companions as not rising to the "need" level. It may also indicate that they had always concidered it that way.

 

All the pro arguments were certainly compelling enough for them to reconcider a companions place in the hierarchy. But not compelling enough to bring it to the top

[Kaskava]

Also to the comment about if I use my companion 100% of the time, 99% of the time yes, I play for about 15 hours a day, I do one flashpoint a day, The rest of the time I am out there with my Companion characters farming mats or questing. I spend far more time with my "pets" than I do with anyone in the game. If no one else hits need and my companion needs it you bet your *** I'm rolling on it because I'm not wasting 1-2 hours of my time for just social points.

 

And you don't think maybe saying 'hey, can I need that for so and so' wouldn't at least be a bit more respectful. There are three other people in there.

[Bazouk]

I'm telling you it's a problem with a murkier solution than any other loot issue I've seen. For all any of us know, BioWare is just going to let the players sort this out themselves.

 

projection

 

Since I'm usually the group leader, I do. Roll on something I know you can't use, i.e Light Armor for Sith Warriors, and I'll kick you so fast your head will spin. A companion is not your character, and has no bearing on OPs and FPs. If you want something for a companion, speak up. It's that simple. If an actual character doesn't need it, fine. Take it.

 

evidence of narcissism

 

Unless they made everything spec-specific after I quit in Cata, it didn't really solve the problem.

 

opinion

 

No, I have to look at it as the group leader. Could that person actually use it for their character. The one that is currently in the instance. If yes, keep going. If no, kick and spam. Maybe other groups won't care. That's their choice. I do.

 

personal preference

 

There are usually tell-tale signs if someone is new. If someone is new, I might be a bit lenient. If I don't think so, I'm bringing down the hammer.

 

assumption

 

If they're really from 'under-privileged' countries, I doubt they're playing TOR. Let alone worrying about loot.

 

assumption

 

 

 

this is not how you win arguments

Edited February 22, 2012 by Bazouk

[Juromaro]

And you don't think maybe saying 'hey, can I need that for so and so' wouldn't at least be a bit more respectful. There are three other people in there.

 

 

Why should it matter if they all roll greed? As I said if someone rolls need then I don't roll, but if they roll greed and my companion uses it then it's not a ninja. I refuse to waste hours of my time on social points or for someone to get vendor trash that is only worth at most 1,000 credits when I can have a possible upgrade to a companions gear.

 

 

I mean really is it respectful to kick someone from the group and plaster their names all over the server as a ninja when they are bettering their own character? Cause if that's the case then I guess I'll start yelling ninja to everyone who steals my crafting nodes, security chests or respawnable quest mobs.

 

Raging over something that someone deems valuable to their character but differs from your opinion in Elitism at it's best. You do not decide what someone can or cannot use.

 

Unless before the flashpoint starts and you state specifically that Companion rolls are based on group decision first and the entire group agrees, and being a group leader doesn't count either, because you can just set to master looter and your problem is solved. Otherwise you've no claim to what's important for another character.

[Kaskava]

assumption

 

 

this is not how you win arguments

 

Go ahead, explain your reasoning behind your assumptions of my argument, I'll wait.

[Grecanis]

this is not how you win arguments

 

That's not the way either

[Bazouk]

Go ahead, explain your reasoning behind your assumptions of my argument, I'll wait.

 

wait all you want. your baseless argument devoid of any facts is explanation enough.

 

 

next

[Kaskava]

Why should it matter if they all roll greed? As I said if someone rolls need then I don't roll, but if they roll greed and my companion uses it then it's not a ninja. I refuse to waste hours of my time on social points or for someone to get vendor trash that is only worth at most 1,000 credits when I can have a possible upgrade to a companions gear.

 

But they should lose out on that money so you can better something that helps YOU and just YOU. Sorry, don't buy that. I could put that few thousand credits to good use help the group.

 

I mean really is it respectful to kick someone from the group and plaster their names all over the server as a ninja when they are bettering their own character? Cause if that's the case then I guess I'll start yelling ninja to everyone who steals my crafting nodes, security chests or respawnable quest mobs.

 

You can be bothered to respect your group mates, why should any of them be bothered to respect you?

 

Raging over something that someone deems valuable to their character but differs from your opinion in Elitism at it's best. You do not decide what someone can or cannot use.

 

I may not be able to stop you from rolling, but I can do something after words. A simple "can I need on this" at a drop, or a "can I need for companion" at the start is a very simple way to avoid this, and shows that you actually respect the time of the people in your group. If they say no, leave and continue doing whatever you were doing, or don't.

 

You may not know this, but time is something you cannot get back, and cannot be healed. By simply saying that you're going to need anyways is selfishness at it's best.

 

Unless before the flashpoint starts and you state specifically that Companion rolls are based on group decision first and the entire group agrees, and being a group leader doesn't count either, because you can just set to master looter and your problem is solved. Otherwise you've no claim to what's important for another character.

 

And you have no claim to just take it for something that wasn't even there, either.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Kaskava

[Kaskava]

wait all you want. your baseless argument devoid of any facts is explanation enough.

 

 

next

 

Good talk. All I've seen from your posts are cop-out arguments, and attempts to divert any responsibility from yourself.

[Grecanis]

Good talk. All I've seen from your posts are cop-out arguments, and attempts to divert any responsibility from yourself.

 

I agree ..I see a lot of obfuscation and deflection from that poster ...not much actual debate tho.

[Bazouk]

Good talk. All I've seen from your posts are cop-out arguments, and attempts to divert any responsibility from yourself.

 

 

responsibility for what? i probably follow nearly the same loot principles that you do. all i'm saying is

 

1) i'm not a ***** about it in-game because i understand my opinion isn't the only one that matters and

 

2) if ninja looting is so out of control and gear for companions is such an enraging topic, bioware has it completely within their means to do something about it. until they do, it's all just a big pissing contest between people who are for companion need rolls, and people who are against it.

[Kaskava]

2) if ninja looting is so out of control and gear for companions is such an enraging topic, bioware has it completely within their means to do something about it. until they do, it's all just a big pissing contest between people who are for companion need rolls, and people who are against it.

 

Says the guy who called BioWare enablers. There are very established ethics and rules regarding loot that have been silently followed by every group I've been in since August, when I first got a beta invite.

 

And then you have people, like Mr. Orange Text, who just decide that their companion>the other three people in run. To hell with them, and the time they're taking out of their day. So yes, I'm going to happily label people like him, and anyone else who needs gear their personal character can't use, as ninjas. Just as my entire guild would do.

 

When I lead runs, I'm going to kick them if they pull that stunt. As the LEADER, it is my duty to LEAD. LEADERS make decisions, based their own ethical standards, and game rules. They may not make everyone happy all the time, but they do it because they are LEADERS. I'm not demanding that BioWare change the loot system (not unless they put in a x-server LFG) because a few people can't get over themselves, sometimes it's best to just leave it to the community to deal with people in their own way.

 

And yes, when those people decided to do what they do because they think it's right, I'm going to do what I think is right. If no one listens to me, fine. If that person is suddenly black listed, fine.

 

And that's really the big difference in our arguments. I'm taking responsibility as a group leader, and player, you're trying to shove it off everywhere but yourself.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Kaskava

[Juromaro]

But they should lose out on that money so you can better something that helps YOU and just YOU. Sorry, don't buy that. I could put that few thousand credits to good use help the group.

 

Is that no different than vendoring an item? after all those credits only go to you and just you. So yeah I don't buy that line of reasoning either.

 

You can be bothered to respect your group mates, why should any of them be bothered to respect you?

 

Has nothing to do with respect. The only reason anyone runs a flashpoint is for the betterment of their own character. If the betterment of my character means that I'm able to survive alot better because my companion is up to date on gear than I achieved what I ran the flashpoint for

 

I may not be able to stop you from rolling, but I can do something after words. A simple "can I need on this" at a drop, or a "can I need for companion" at the start is a very simple way to avoid this, and shows that you actually respect the time of the people in your group. If they say no, leave and continue doing whatever you were doing, or don't.

 

A matter that can be solved by everyone in the group making that agreement before the flashpoint is even started. If that is not done then it is not disrespectful to roll need on greeded vendor trash if your using it to upgrade something on your character. As I stated before, I do not run flashpoints for social points, if all I get out of hours of my time is companion gear than that time was not wasted.

 

You may not know this, but time is something you cannot get back, and cannot be healed. By simply saying that you're going to need anyways is selfishness at it's best.

 

So I should waste my time by running the flashpoint, receiving nothing for my actual character aside from social points? You may only run flashpoints to gear up your avatar, but I run flashpoints to gear up all aspects of my character. If that does not meet your standards you should state that before the run is started. If you fail to do so then fault is on you, not me.

 

 

 

And you have no claim to just take it for something that wasn't even there, either.

 

If it is not an agreed upon condition before the run starts then I have claim on whatever I can use, be that for my avatar or for my companion. You do not pay my monthly payment, my time is not your time and your issues are not mine issues if you fail to make it clear before the run has started, so you cannot tell me what I have claim to or don't have claim to. I was just as much apart of the flashpoint's success or failure as the rest of the group so you cannot and will not tell me what I do or don't need in a NBG situation. If you want to control the loot then agree upon rules before the run, or set master looter. Otherwise go about your business or be looked at as a crybaby because someone took an item that you would have vendored or put on the AH anyway.

 

Response in Red

[Bazouk]

Says the guy who called BioWare enablers. There are very established ethics and rules regarding loot that have been silently followed by every group I've been in since August, when I first got a beta invite.

 

And then you have people, like Mr. Orange Text, who just decide that their companion>the other three people in run. To hell with them, and the time they're taking out of their day. So yes, I'm going to happily label people like him, and anyone else who needs gear their personal character can't use, as ninjas. Just as my entire guild would do.

 

When I lead runs, I'm going to kick them if they pull that stunt. As the LEADER, it is my duty to LEAD. LEADERS make decisions, based their own ethical standards, and game rules. They may not make everyone happy all the time, but they do it because they are LEADERS. I'm not demanding that BioWare change the loot system (not unless they put in a x-server LFG) because a few people can't get over themselves, sometimes it's best to just leave it to the community to deal with people in their own way.

 

And yes, when those people decided to do what they do because they think it's right, I'm going to do what I think is right. If no one listens to me, fine. If that person is suddenly black listed, fine.

 

And that's really the big difference in our arguments. I'm taking responsibility as a group leader, and player, you're trying to shove it off everywhere but yourself.

 

 

i'm trying to make the argument that all of this is easily solvable by the developers if or when they chose to do it.

 

you telling me that i'm somehow avoiding responsibility by pointing out how easily the developers could solve this issue is just evidence of some inner struggle you're having with yourself that requires the debasement of someone else to make you feel better about it.

 

personally, i don't care one way or the other. my argument isn't about loot. it's about developers. there are problems in the game that they created and they can solve. and not just problems regarding "ninja" looters.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Notannos
rude

[Kaskava]

Is that no different than vendoring an item? after all those credits only go to you and just you. So yeah I don't buy that line of reasoning either.

 

Credits that go into my pocked, then into the medical droid when I buy Stims, Medpacks, and Repairs so that we don't die in the even that the healer runs out of Force/Heat/Ammo, or we're on a tough fight. Funny how those things work.

 

Has nothing to do with respect. The only reason anyone runs a flashpoint is for the betterment of their own character. If the betterment of my character means that I'm able to survive alot better because my companion is up to date on gear than I achieved what I ran the flashpoint for

 

Clearly, someone doesn't have a guild. There are times I would rather not get on, or not run a FP, but I do because I'm in a guild. Guildes help each other. Sometimes I have to pug. Now, how does your companion have any real, tangible benefit to that group, or any other group? And how does that piece of gear play a roll.

 

Further more, you do get more then just Social Points for FPs in the form of Tionese Crystals and commendations, and Columni commendations. Both of which can be used to buy gear for your companion, btw.

 

A matter that can be solved by everyone in the group making that agreement before the flashpoint is even started. If that is not done then it is not disrespectful to roll need on greeded vendor trash if your using it to upgrade something on your character. As I stated before, I do not run flashpoints for social points, if all I get out of hours of my time is companion gear than that time was not wasted.

 

As I said in a previous post, never have I run into someone who believes differently from the standard rules I've stated. If they did, they never said anything about, and went with the standard. How do I know its a standard? Because everyone I've grouped simply gone with it, without any explanation.

 

And, as I said before, you get more then just Social Points in FPs.

 

So I should waste my time by running the flashpoint, receiving nothing for my actual character aside from social points? You may only run flashpoints to gear up your avatar, but I run flashpoints to gear up all aspects of my character. If that does not meet your standards you should state that before the run is started. If you fail to do so then fault is on you, not me.

 

Once again, crystals and coms. And whether or not you can kill that elite is no concern to me, or the other two people in the FP. The time of three, however, > the time of one.

 

If it is not an agreed upon condition before the run starts then I have claim on whatever I can use, be that for my avatar or for my companion. You do not pay my monthly payment, my time is not your time and your issues are not mine issues if you fail to make it clear before the run has started, so you cannot tell me what I have claim to or don't have claim to.

 

Same goes to you. If you don't make your wants known, then you have no right to protest if I take action against you. You don't pay my sub, you don't pay the subs of the other two people, and if I'm leading, you don't have to make the decisions about what to do in situations.

 

I was just as much apart of the flashpoint's success or failure as the rest of the group so you cannot and will not tell me what I do or don't need in a NBG situation.

 

You were. Khem Val, not at all.

 

If you want to control the loot then agree upon rules before the run, or set master looter. Otherwise go about your business or be looked at as a crybaby because someone took an item that you would have vendored or put on the AH anyway.

 

Me, and the other two people. Maybe that thousand Credits would have bought them a speeder? Shouldn't they have access to it? After all, a speeder does get them from point A to point B a lot faster then running does. Maybe they could have turned around and repaired the gear with that thousand credits. Hell, my repair costs (don't know if there's a repair cost scale like there used to be in WoW) easily run into the the 20k plus area. Burned through 100 grand last night on one boss.

 

And I happily spent that hundred grand, because it was going towards a goal the benefited multiple people. Something you don't seem to be able to comprehend.

[Juromaro]

Says the guy who called BioWare enablers. There are very established ethics and rules regarding loot that have been silently followed by every group I've been in since August, when I first got a beta invite.

 

And then you have people, like Mr. Orange Text, who just decide that their companion>the other three people in run. To hell with them, and the time they're taking out of their day. So yes, I'm going to happily label people like him, and anyone else who needs gear their personal character can't use, as ninjas. Just as my entire guild would do.

 

When I lead runs, I'm going to kick them if they pull that stunt. As the LEADER, it is my duty to LEAD. LEADERS make decisions, based their own ethical standards, and game rules. They may not make everyone happy all the time, but they do it because they are LEADERS. I'm not demanding that BioWare change the loot system (not unless they put in a x-server LFG) because a few people can't get over themselves, sometimes it's best to just leave it to the community to deal with people in their own way.

 

And yes, when those people decided to do what they do because they think it's right, I'm going to do what I think is right. If no one listens to me, fine. If that person is suddenly black listed, fine.

 

And that's really the big difference in our arguments. I'm taking responsibility as a group leader, and player, you're trying to shove it off everywhere but yourself.

 

 

I've not heard these rules, and I've been playing this game since beta as well. Ethics is just personal opinion, not mandatory opinion. I don't have to think the way you do, nor do you have to think my way.

 

As for labeling people go ahead, that's your and your guilds way of doing things so be it. True elitism at it's best. My companion is part of my character, I take it with me every where I go, when someone drops from a flashpoint my companion or someone else's companion takes over until we find a replacement, if we find one that is. Companion is part of your charcter, just as your Ship is part of your character, your crafting is part of your character. But that's okay because we now know that you and your entire guild would rather call people a ninja when they take an item to use where you would just take that item and vendor it and it would get no use other than lining your credit account.

 

So basically with you and your guild(since you are speaking for them) you accuse everyone who takes vendor trash from you so you cannot sell them calling them a Ninja, all the while ruining their reputation for simply making the choice to make their companions better?

 

I would be so proud to have you as a party leader, and a guild leader for that matter, because you Sir are truly all that it means to be Elite. So please kind Master, take me under you wing and teach me the ways of putting the hate and rage on all who oppose your ideals.

 

P.S: I see you don't like Orange text....does Red make you feel better? matches the color of your screen when your in a flashpoint?

[Kaskava]

i'm trying to make the argument that all of this is easily solvable by the developers if or when they chose to do it.

 

I'm trying to make a point that, as the group leader, I have to make decisions. And I'm going to act on those decisions.

 

you telling me that i'm somehow avoiding responsibility by pointing out how easily the developers could solve this issue is just evidence of some inner struggle you're having with yourself that requires the debasement of someone else to make you feel better about it.

 

Whatever you say. Oh, wait, sounds like some of your posts.

 

personally, i don't care one way or the other. my argument isn't about loot. it's about developers. there are problems in the game that they created and they can solve. and not just problems regarding "ninja" looters.

 

There are. And there are threads about those. Neither of us actually knows if BioWare even considers this a real problem. What I'm gathering from the solutions you have failed to actually outline, is a system only slightly harder to abuse.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Notannos
quote

[Vecke]

i'm trying to make the argument that all of this is easily solvable by the developers if or when they chose to do it.

 

you telling me that i'm somehow avoiding responsibility by pointing out how easily the developers could solve this issue is just evidence of some inner struggle you're having with yourself that requires the debasement of someone else to make you feel better about it.

 

personally, i don't care one way or the other. my argument isn't about loot. it's about developers. there are problems in the game that they created and they can solve. and not just problems regarding "ninja" looters.

 

Before I respond, let me be clear here: I agree with 90% of what you're saying. Also, I do NOT consider myself some expert gamer. I'm actually very casual in my playstyle. I have played quite a few MMOs with my wife, but we play very casually. I also think (and fully admit I could be wrong) that I've pugged enough over the past 10 years to have a fair idea of general expectations in regards to looting in the MMO community.

 

I do think people dramatically over-react to this issue (on both sides), and I think BW could resolve it easily.

 

That said, I think that in your attempts to defend the "ninja" looters (which I think is admirable of you to do), you're appearing to have taken a side. I think I made that same mistake in my first post with you, so I'm not judging. I overstated one side because I thought that side was getting unfairly attacked. I think you're doing the same here.

 

I agree with you that most "ninja" looters are simply people that are unaware of the loot rules of the group, for whatever reason. Where we disagree, though, is that you seem to think there isn't an established etiquette for people that pug regularly. In my ADMITTEDLY ANECDOTAL EXPERIENCE, I seriously doubt there's very many people that pug regularly who don't know that the general rule of thumb (before this game) that you only roll need on items that the character participating in the fight can use.

 

The people that you think are "imposing their beliefs" on others are primarily arguing against the other posters on this forum that know full well this has been a community driven etiquette for years and simply disagree with it, then willfully and intentionally roll need on items when they know the rest of the group won't.

 

I agree with you that this is far more rare than people are implying, but the main debate here is between those two entrenched camps. It's not one group unfairly imposing anything on another group. It's two groups refusing to compromise even an inch.

 

As far as whether or not a companion SHOULD have the same loot value as the player character, my opinion on that flip-flops constantly, because I think both sides of this debate raise some interesting points. TOR really has changed the paradigm.

 

I said this at least a dozen times in the first half of this debate, but I honestly think this entire issue can be resolved with one simple rule: If the looting method is important to you, speak up at the formation of the group. If you can't live with the group's rule, leave it.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Notannos
quote

[Kaskava]

I've not heard these rules, and I've been playing this game since beta as well. Ethics is just personal opinion, not mandatory opinion. I don't have to think the way you do, nor do you have to think my way.

 

So we've noticed.

 

As for labeling people go ahead, that's your and your guilds way of doing things so be it. True elitism at it's best.

 

We're all labeled. So, really, I'm not doing anything different. That's neither here nor there, though.

 

My companion is part of my character, I take it with me every where I go,

 

Don't know about you, but I have five companions. I cannot take them everywhere I go. Nor do I really need to.

 

when someone drops from a flashpoint my companion or someone else's companion takes over until we find a replacement, if we find one that is.

 

Then your companion was part of the FP, negating this whole argument.

 

Companion is part of your charcter, just as your Ship is part of your character, your crafting is part of your character.

 

The only thing you mentioned that is actually required is a ship. You can survive without your companion, and you don't need to craft to be successful.

 

But that's okay because we now know that you and your entire guild would rather call people a ninja when they take an item to use where you would just take that item and vendor it and it would get no use other than lining your credit account.

 

So, I used it to better my character. Which has been the whole logic of your argument. No difference. Except, I put that money right back into the group in the form of medpacks, stims, and repairs.

 

So basically with you and your guild(since you are speaking for them) you accuse everyone who takes vendor trash from you so you cannot sell them calling them a Ninja, all the while ruining their reputation for simply making the choice to make their companions better?

 

If it's vendor trash, how is it helping your companion? And if it's vendor trash, why are you needing on it?

 

I would be so proud to have you as a party leader, and a guild leader for that matter, because you Sir are truly all that it means to be Elite. So please kind Master, take me under you wing and teach me the ways of putting the hate and rage on all who oppose your ideals.

 

Never gotten a complaint before, so I must be doing something right.

 

P.S: I see you don't like Orange text....does Red make you feel better? matches the color of your screen when your in a flashpoint?

 

Didn't really bother me. I called you Mr. Orange text because I couldn't remember your name. And no, my screams aren't read. That would be a bad thing.

[Juromaro]

Credits that go into my pocked, then into the medical droid when I buy Stims, Medpacks, and Repairs so that we don't die in the even that the healer runs out of Force/Heat/Ammo, or we're on a tough fight. Funny how those things work.

 

And that piece of gear, saves me from having to buy stims or Medpacks or repairs due to my tank companion dying from lack of gear. Any true raiding guild has those bases covered with crafting.

 

Clearly, someone doesn't have a guild. There are times I would rather not get on, or not run a FP, but I do because I'm in a guild. Guildes help each other. Sometimes I have to pug. Now, how does your companion have any real, tangible benefit to that group, or any other group? And how does that piece of gear play a roll.

 

I have a guild, I've also ran raid progression guilds in WoW, FFXI, Aion, Rift and SWG. and everytime I have led a run on anything master looter is set and gear is rolled on by whoever needs it. Those games however do not have companions that require gear so Loot rules by definition are different in this game.

 

Further more, you do get more then just Social Points for FPs in the form of Tionese Crystals and commendations, and Columni commendations. Both of which can be used to buy gear for your companion, btw.

 

And that's all fine and dandy, if my Companion has items from Tion/Columni gear then they don't need an item in that slot so therefor a roll is not placed on an upgrade.

 

As I said in a previous post, never have I run into someone who believes differently from the standard rules I've stated. If they did, they never said anything about, and went with the standard. How do I know its a standard? Because everyone I've grouped simply gone with it, without any explanation.

 

Are you sure everyone simply gone with it? Ever think that maybe that pug you were in no one needed anything? Maybe you only run flashpoints with people you know or have ran with before so you know their playstyle.

 

And, as I said before, you get more then just Social Points in FPs.

 

I know, I also get items that upgrade companions that I use.

 

 

 

Once again, crystals and coms. And whether or not you can kill that elite is no concern to me, or the other two people in the FP. The time of three, however, > the time of one.

 

My time > the time of people I do not know, nor will probably never see again. whether or not I can kill that elite is of major concern to me because that determines if I finish my quest or not.

 

 

Same goes to you. If you don't make your wants known, then you have no right to protest if I take action against you. You don't pay my sub, you don't pay the subs of the other two people, and if I'm leading, you don't have to make the decisions about what to do in situations.

 

Never stated that I do not let people know before hand. You however have stated that you do not let it be known because it's "common knowledge", that you do not let anyone know until they are kicked and names plastered across the server as ninjas....so who jumps the gun?

 

 

 

You were. Khem Val, not at all.

 

Khem Val is part of my character, as a Sorcerer his gear determines if I get facesmashed by mobs or not, same with all my other companions. Anyway I as there, so therefor I determine what is useful to me and what is not. What was the point you were trying to make with that?

 

 

 

Me, and the other two people. Maybe that thousand Credits would have bought them a speeder? Shouldn't they have access to it? After all, a speeder does get them from point A to point B a lot faster then running does. Maybe they could have turned around and repaired the gear with that thousand credits. Hell, my repair costs (don't know if there's a repair cost scale like there used to be in WoW) easily run into the the 20k plus area. Burned through 100 grand last night on one boss.

 

Credits can be gain from every mob, all mobs, gear however is random, gear can take hours if not days to farm, credits drop from everything, you even get credits in the mail. What is your point?

 

And I happily spent that hundred grand, because it was going towards a goal the benefited multiple people. Something you don't seem to be able to comprehend.

 

I happily roll on that companion upgrade, because it is going toward the goal that benefited multiple people by allowing me to level and not get stuck, therefor allowing me to run my lower level guild mates through flashpoints. Don't presume to tell me what I do or don't comprehend. As I stated which you seem to neglect is when someone rolls need on an item I don't roll on it, I simply stated that greed rolls are fair game. Something you don't seem to comprehend because greed is just that, greed.

In Red

[Bazouk]

I'm trying to make a point that, as the group leader, I have to make decisions. And I'm going to act on those decisions.

 

we all have to make decisions, dude. it's called life. you are not alone.

 

Whatever you say. Oh, wait, sounds like some of your posts.

 

meh, you stop spewing venom and i'll stop exposing your personal faults

Edited February 22, 2012 by Bazouk

[Kaskava]

In Red

 

It's pretty obvious that you're really just a selfish person, and there's no point even trying to argue with you.

 

Agree with it, or don't. I'm still going to do what I see fit to people who need for something that wasn't even in the run.