Fliguy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Get rid of the ability to stealth while in combat. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurleyKilla Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I can understand being able to invis in combat, It really should break from Dot though. If I have the wherewithal to DoT somone just before they try to Invis and run away, I should be rewarded with breaking there stealth, and being able to finish them. Works like that in every other game I have played of this nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgoldsack Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I can understand being able to invis in combat, It really should break from Dot though. If I have the wherewithal to DoT somone just before they try to Invis and run away, I should be rewarded with breaking there stealth, and being able to finish them. Works like that in every other game I have played of this nature. If I cloak in combat and have a dot, as soon as the dot ticks, I come uncloaked. Plus it has a 3m cooldown. It does not magically remove all the dots (at least not at my level 35 level). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurleyKilla Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 If I cloak in combat and have a dot, as soon as the dot ticks, I come uncloaked. Plus it has a 3m cooldown. It does not magically remove all the dots (at least not at my level 35 level). Is that confirmed? With my Tactics vanguard, Gut is a main part of my rotation, pretty much everyone I fight is recieving damage over time... I have never once seen it Tick and have an invisible person reappear. I always have to use my stealth robot detector things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgoldsack Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Is that confirmed? With my Tactics vanguard, Gut is a main part of my rotation, pretty much everyone I fight is recieving damage over time... I have never once seen it Tick and have an invisible person reappear. I always have to use my stealth robot detector things... Happened to me a number of times today. And I died a lot because of it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkenfeur Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Stealth is one of the only substantial defensive abilities to a great many medium/light armor classes. Like rock paper scissors, the classes that cant stealth have a plethora of ways to counter this be that AoE, or stealth detection. Learn yours, /close thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fliguy Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Stealth is one of the only substantial defensive abilities to a great many medium/light armor classes. Like rock paper scissors, the classes that cant stealth have a plethora of ways to counter this be that AoE, or stealth detection. Learn yours, /close thread. Un freaking true and you know it! All it is is a get away free card and you know that! You obviously play one of these advantageous classes. Try playing a Jedi Knight against one of these invis classes and tell me about "having a plethora of ways to counter this be that AoE or stealth detection". We get none. So.... my original statement stands, yours falls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeventhJedi Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I play a Jedi Guardian, and my comeback to that is - they get one free hit because they're stealthed. After that, they better hope they brought a bunch of stealthed homies with them, because as soon as I can target them, they die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgoldsack Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Un freaking true and you know it! All it is is a get away free card and you know that! You obviously play one of these advantageous classes. Try playing a Jedi Knight against one of these invis classes and tell me about "having a plethora of ways to counter this be that AoE or stealth detection". We get none. So.... my original statement stands, yours falls. Lots of factors here.. what level is your Jedi? You may not have the skill yet to properly counteract it. Just because you don't have it yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And does not mean it is unfair. Same thing could be said about Force Leap... being able to leap 25m straight up is so OP, it must not be allowed in combat. Plus JK themselves (at later levels) get their own short invis, which gives them the ability to get away. Do you want that removed too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashyel Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Is that confirmed? With my Tactics vanguard, Gut is a main part of my rotation, pretty much everyone I fight is recieving damage over time... I have never once seen it Tick and have an invisible person reappear. I always have to use my stealth robot detector things...If they're not stupid they'll use a cleansing move to remove tech effects before vanishing. On my scoundrel I can't remove force effects though I believe. I have a Vanguard too, and opening with Plastique or Sticky Grenade is always a nice way to greet a stealther who's losing and ready to bail. Or setting them on fire seems to work too. In-combat stealth isn't unfair and it's on a fairly long cooldown too, you just need to accept that you're not going to get the first hit from a stealther. Just like if a Guardian leaps at you he'll get the first hit, or if a Trooper shoots you from range he'll get the first hit etc. Remember that a player is useless while in stealth. Stealth itself isn't powerful on its own, but rather it's the positional advantage it gives you after you've emerged from it. You have tools to give yourself an advantage too so use them. Edited February 21, 2012 by Ashyel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fliguy Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Lots of factors here.. what level is your Jedi? You may not have the skill yet to properly counteract it. Just because you don't have it yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And does not mean it is unfair. Same thing could be said about Force Leap... being able to leap 25m straight up is so OP, it must not be allowed in combat. Plus JK themselves (at later levels) get their own short invis, which gives them the ability to get away. Do you want that removed too? I play a level 50, half Champion geared Guardian. What invis do I get? Please tell me. I'm not saying get rid of invis, all I'm saying is once you're in combat, invis should not be usable. Agents would have to choose when to strike, and once they do, battle to the death. Not run away like a coward! What skills do I have to counteract it? DoTs? Yeah, that's what they say, but I DoT stealthers all the time, they disappear and never reappear. Force Leap is about the only thing we have. Take that away and you might as well be giving a lightsaber to a cripple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgoldsack Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I play a level 50, half Champion geared Guardian. What invis do I get? Please tell me. I'm not saying get rid of invis, all I'm saying is once you're in combat, invis should not be usable. Agents would have to choose when to strike, and once they do, battle to the death. Not run away like a coward! What skills do I have to counteract it? DoTs? Yeah, that's what they say, but I DoT stealthers all the time, they disappear and never reappear. Force Leap is about the only thing we have. Take that away and you might as well be giving a lightsaber to a cripple. You should have: Cyclone Slash - Slashes up to 5 enemies in front of you for 556 - 643 weapon damage each. Attacks with both lightsabers if dual wielding. Force Camouflage - Obscures yourself with the Force, becoming difficult to detect, reducing your threat towards all enemies and increasing movement speed by 30% for 4 seconds. Dealing direct damage ends the effect prematurely. 45s cooldown. Force Sweep - Strikes up to 5 enemies within 5 meters with the Force, dealing 714 - 779 kinetic damage. Also stuns weak and standard enemies for 1.5 seconds. 15s Cooldown, assuming you have Force. EDIT: Since you are a guardian, you do not have the stealth, but you shoudl have a ton of survivability, knock backs, stuns, etc. Basically, you have tools to counteract the stealther, and your own ability to get away in a pinch, you just fail at utilizing them. Edited February 21, 2012 by jgoldsack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Saying it is unfiar is not enough to get it removed from the game. You would have to prove it is unfair to the devs. So far, you have only convinced yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarvus Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 /signed, in bold print in capital letters. Stealth is a class advantage that allows the player to choose whether to fight, where to fight, and if not to fight at all. There should be no additional benefit on the backside of that encounter whereby they get to go stealth midcombat or as an exit from combat they presumably chose to enter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgoldsack Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Every class has their own unique advantage in PvP, that is not shared by another class. Calling these abilities unfair because another class doesn't have them is just pure shortsighted idiocy. Might as well remove all stuns, slows, heals, leaps, stealths, health packs, gear, etc. Simply make it a "kill you be killed" scenario, where the last man standing wins, because having any of those will give someone an advantage over someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyersfan Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) You should have: Cyclone Slash - Slashes up to 5 enemies in front of you for 556 - 643 weapon damage each. Attacks with both lightsabers if dual wielding. Force Camouflage - Obscures yourself with the Force, becoming difficult to detect, reducing your threat towards all enemies and increasing movement speed by 30% for 4 seconds. Dealing direct damage ends the effect prematurely. 45s cooldown. Force Sweep - Strikes up to 5 enemies within 5 meters with the Force, dealing 714 - 779 kinetic damage. Also stuns weak and standard enemies for 1.5 seconds. 15s Cooldown, assuming you have Force. I am assuming you are a Sentinal, since you are complaining about invisible people. Basically, you have tools to counteract the stealther, and your own ability to get away in a pinch, you just fail at utilizing them. Force Camouflage is a Sentinel-only ability. You assume that he's a Sentinel while quoting the post he made where the first sentence says that he's a Guardian. The truth is that Knights get the short end of the stick. Force Sweep and Cyclone Slash cost 3 Focus a piece (by default) and can't always be used to pull someone out of stealth. For Sentinels, Cauterise has a longer cooldown than most other damage over time attacks, so it's not always up. Only Focus Sentinels get Force Exhaustion. I have keep the damage over time up like I can with my Shadow, who is constantly dishing out Mind Crushes, Force Breaches, and Sever Forces making Cloaking Screen or Force Cloak (and the Smuggler/Assassin equivalents) somewhat laughable. However, I totally disagree with this: Get rid of the ability to stealth while in combat. /thread Cloaking Screen is vital for my Operative. In PvP, she needs it to get away. She can't fight and she can't outheal the incoming damage if everyone else kicks the bucket. In PvP, she can't tangle with a boss or a group of enemies. Cloaking Screen gets me out of those messes. Also, ending a post with /thread almost certainly nullifies any statement. Edited February 21, 2012 by flyersfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgoldsack Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 You assume that he's a Sentinel while quoting the post he made where the first sentence says that he's a Guardian. Yeah I saw that part after i made my post, hence my edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Classes that have skills that make them difficult for me to kill should be nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfondles Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) No.. do not take a stealth classes only way of survival in combat away from them... However while we are on this topic.. Do take force camouflage away from Marauders/Sentinel... They are heavy armor wearing classes with tons of ways and defensive abilities to survive an assault.. Why should they get to use the same thing that a stealth class uses to survive? Edited February 22, 2012 by Mcfondles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fliguy Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Also, ending a post with /thread almost certainly nullifies any statement. Get rid of stealth during combat /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venea Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 No.. do not take a stealth classes only way of survival in combat away from them... However while we are on this topic.. Do take force camouflage away from Marauders/Sentinel... They are heavy armor wearing classes with tons of ways and defensive abilities to survive an assault.. Why should they get to use the same thing that a stealth class uses to survive? Just feel like correcting you here..... Marauders and Sentinels are Medium armor, not heavy. Beyond that I don't know anything about what defensive abilities they may have. Though since they're DPS/DPS/DPS, I wouldn't guess they'd have much in the way of defensives..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassik Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 You may take my Operative stealth away. However, I'd like these changes as compensation: -Medium armor upgraded to Heavy armor -"Behind Target" requirement removed from Backstab -"In stealth, behind target" requirements removed from Hidden Strike -"In stealth" requirement removed from Sleep Dart -A distance-closing ability added, similar to Force Leap/Force Speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aryslan Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Yes remove incombat stealth. Also remove incombat spellcasting. And also remove the arm of jedi knights and sents and mirror classes too. Perfect balance then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahnu Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Yes remove incombat stealth. Also remove incombat spellcasting. And also remove the arm of jedi knights and sents and mirror classes too. Perfect balance then. Just remove combat as a whole, Empire and Republic should have Olympic games to see who's the strongest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassik Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Heck, why not create a genuinely balanced combat system? Everyone gets the following abilities, with no variation between them: -Attack -Block This system is both simple to impliment and perfectly balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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