yodimaster Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I somewhat oppose it but will vote for it as long as the rewards are extremely dumbed down no bis equivalent gear and no special mounts. Yes for orange non stat gear. The only reason Strathelhome Deathcharger was soloable was because the raid was 2 years outdated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yodimaster Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 According to what set of laws? Where is it cast in stone that no MMO can ever do something different for endgame progression? Are you saying that ALL MMOs for all eternity must have the same endgame progression method, and never offer any other? If solo endgame rewards are the same as 8/16 man's then why would I want to pay 60.00 USD for the game then 15.00 usd a month for a Kotor 1 and 2 with online chat? I want a challenge from the game. Like a lot of you my game time to play is limited to weekends only with a ocassional week day to play! I have 2 kids, a wife, a job I work at 10hrs a day 5 days a week . I shouldn't expect solo raids to progress what took others weeks or months to get. After you soloed to get the gear you want would you still continue to pay your sub? The game already has limited speed bumps and curves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirthEightyOne Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 /signed for more end-game solo choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayfax Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 This arrogance and presumption doesn't surprise me in the least...only because of the nature of the people who happen to be quite VOCAL in MMO forums. You already have your SET IN STONE opinions about the quality of an MMO vs. a SPRPG and that those of us who still play MMOs despite the vaunted SUPERIORITY of SPRPGs are wasting our money on a SUB PAR SINGLE PLAYER experience. We get it. You have this unfounded opinion that you like to drill home every single chance you get. It doesn't mean that you are RIGHT or that your opinion is any more VALID than anyone else's. Using words like MYSTIFYING does not make you sound smarter or convince the rest of us to automatically agree with you. You say you are MYSTIFIED that people who wish to do things SOLO still choose an MMO...when in REALITY, and this is a stab in the dark but I think closer to the mark than you will ever admit, you are just mad that people are potentially taking away from YOUR group experience. You can't stand the idea that people would jump into the game, have loads of fun with it WITHOUT relying on anyone else....while you are still waiting on a group. Instead of ordering the OP, and those of us who agree with him, to STOP expecting the world to fit into his limitations, maybe YOU and other arrogant-minded folks like you should START coming to terms with the fact that there are other ways of doing things and they don't affect you so why are do you even CARE how other people wish to spend their game time? First, the ability to voice an opinion doesn't automatically lend that opinion credibility, or even make it defensible. You basically burned ~500 words saying that I'm wrong because, well, I'm wrong. My position is that you're opinion is wrong because it is based on a desire for a level of convenience which actually undermines what MMOs offer. Second, I don't think it's reasonable to argue against the clear advantages single player games have over MMO's especially when you want to play alone. Single player games have better graphics. Many of WoW's character models are 8 years old. TOR uses obviously low rez textures for its models. This is a limitation of "massively multiplayer" that single player games don't have to deal with. Single player games have better gameplay, with a much wider variety of content. Single player RPGs have a level of depth that is impossible to duplicate in an MMO. Again, this is a limitation of a persistent online world and "massively multiplayer." There is no way to make quest lines have much depth beyond what we've seen for the last 10 years. Compare "go kill 10 boars and bring me their skins as proof" with the kind of content in games like LA Noire and Heavy Rain. What do MMO's have to compete with that? Groups. Warcraft succeeded for two reasons: One, it was released simultaneously on two platforms with incredibly low requirements on both. Two, it benefited enormously from the network effect. Meaning that, the more people you know on your server, the larger your friend's list, the bigger your guild, the more valuable the game became for you. The was a direct correlation between the entertainment value and the size of your social circle. And that's the problem with asking for solo endgame content. It undercuts and undermines the core advantage of an MMO. Blizzard is finding this out the hard way. Cata didn't fail because it was a bad expansion (although, it was). It failed because Blizzard made a conscious design decision to make the entire game's content, from level 1 through 85 and well into endgame, completely soloable. They were trying to compete with casual games, and offer something to people who could only play 20 minutes a day. But in doing that, they removed the one clear advantage that they had. Without healthy, growing groups, an MMO is just a shallow single player game with an Instant Messenger built in. You only need to log onto WoW in its current state and run LFG and LFR for a few hours to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirthEightyOne Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 If solo endgame rewards are the same as 8/16 man's then why would I want to pay 60.00 USD for the game then 15.00 usd a month for a Kotor 1 and 2 with online chat? I want a challenge from the game. Like a lot of you my game time to play is limited to weekends only with a ocassional week day to play! I have 2 kids, a wife, a job I work at 10hrs a day 5 days a week . I shouldn't expect solo raids to progress what took others weeks or months to get. After you soloed to get the gear you want would you still continue to pay your sub? The game already has limited speed bumps and curves. There are different ways for different people to enjoy end-game without group raiding. From your post, it sounds like that's it for you. I myself don't plan on doing any group raiding but instead doing PvP, crafting, datacron hunts, dailies, soloing some Flashpoints, etc. I'll still keep paying my sub. Personally, if they did implement solo "raids", then I would be fine with it being harder and/or slower to gear up that way than group raids. But ultimately, it's just a game and I don't really care one way or another as long as I'm still having fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yodimaster Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 There are different ways for different people to enjoy end-game without group raiding. From your post, it sounds like that's it for you. I myself don't plan on doing any group raiding but instead doing PvP, crafting, datacron hunts, dailies, soloing some Flashpoints, etc. I'll still keep paying my sub. Personally, if they did implement solo "raids", then I would be fine with it being harder and/or slower to gear up that way than group raids. But ultimately, it's just a game and I don't really care one way or another as long as I'm still having fun. Believe it or not but I do not raid, I've done enough of that gear grind in wow and stopped doing it in wotlk. I like the other aspects like PvP, story, crafting, making money, and if there were anytype of sandbox qualities in this game id be doing that also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cesmode Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 /me uses the force... Bioware....hear me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonewild Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 This game has enough soloable content. I would prefer more group oriented activities and goals- put the MM into the MMO. On the other hand, special zones that allowed full groups to utilize each a pet in a unique or challenging way to complete quests/goals would be an idea I would support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindara Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I don't think in MMO terms the word Raid should ever be definied with Solo attached to it. It should be more like Heroic Encounter. Your a "hero" or anti hero it should be more like your going on a Heroic Mission thats tougher dailies, can never involve a group just a single companion or maybe a way for multiple companions and the gear should be better than what you gathered soloing quests but not better than Raid Gear. If your not going to raid there's no reason for you have raid style gear with raid stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarian Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Sounds good to me! The more solo-able stuff, the better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyng Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Morning all. Not sure if I saw a suggestion forum, but I figured this would be the next best place to post this. I am going to give a small intro to my suggestion and reasoning behind it. Im sure a lot of people do not have time for raiding. Id venture a guess that a large majority of the population in SWTOR are people that grew up with the star wars saga(not the new movies), and are in their late 20s, 30s, or 40s. We have lives, families, kids, careers. This is not to say that there isnt a large size of people that have the time to raid. I commend you for having that time, I wish I did However, typical MMOs cater to two people, for the most part. PVP endgame, and PVE end game. Warzones/Arenas, and raiding. While that is great, and you'll capture a lot of your users and players that way, theres a large population of people that dont have the time to grind out X amount of warzones for Y amount of champion bags, or dont have the time to dedicate 3 to 6(or more) hours per week of raiding. Maybe to some people, PVP isnt appealing, or raiding isnt appealing. What I suggest is some sort of end game solo raiding-type of content. Rift is/was mildly successful with it, with Chronicles being either solo or two-person. I think WoW is introducing Scenarios with MoP, which will be a success. I would LOVE something similar here, and I think it would be wildly successful. Why? The companion system! At level 50, we have 5 companions(I think, not including the ship droid). We gear them out, just as we do ourselves. Why not have a solo-raid, where there are packs of two strong-3 regular(just as an example), or tune it to how Bioware sees fit. Bring your entire companion group in, or select 4 out of the 5. Break them out into teams, etc. Maybe give us more control over their abilities in these instances so that Quinn, for example, knows to heal me up rather than heal up Broonmark. Or so that I can taunt a mob off of my main character with Broonmark, etc. Games like ME1,ME2 did this well. Create an entire currency system for these solo-raids just as there is a currency for everything else, or just have it drop based, or mission based with rewards at the end. The key would be tuning the raid for a solo person, that is playing with companions(so its maybe twice as hard as any other solo quest in the game), and giving us the ability to control more of the companion abilities. Another key element would be to allow us to bring in more than one companion, making it feel like the work I put into each companion pays off. Make it difficult so that I do not just breeze through it in 20 minutes, but rather I can work on it bit by bit throughout the week, re-zoning in when I have a free hour to down a boss. Make it as difficult and as long as a normal raid. The difference would be that I can progress at my own pace, when I have the time, so I dont need to conform to a guild's raid schedule. Make the loot slightly better than hardmode flashpoint gear, and slightly less than raid gear. It would be fantastic if the solo-raids were different than the 8/16 man raids. Make no mistake, this will not make end game 8/16 man raiding obsolete. People still want that MMO feel, playing with their friends and guildmates. For people that enjoy hardmode raiding, server firsts, achievements, etc this solo raid stuff would not be for them. It would just be an alternative for those of us that no longer have the time to dedicate to real end game raiding. In summary, I think this game is perfect for a system like this. The companion system makes it possible, and would make it a very dynamic experience. If Bioware pulled this off, I think, in my opinion, they would dethrone Blizzard as the MMO Gods There are no words to describe how much I LOVE this idea...I would also like to see it tiered so if two people want to go one brings 2 companions the other brings 3...etc...But I love, love, love this idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cesmode Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Glad a lot of people think it is a great idea. It is not a new idea, nor is it something new in any MMO. There are others that have tried. With the companion system, I think it would fit very well. Make it solable, or doable with two people. Sky is the limit to how they want to structure this. Heres to hoping Bioware takes notice of this thread and what kind of general response from the community it has received in less than 6 hours. ...and watch...some elitist raider will post underneith this to undermine what I just said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparklecat Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I think this would be awesome; give me an incentive to upgrade more companions than just Quinn on my main, too. eta: never raided in my life Edited February 21, 2012 by sparklecat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnapWolf Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) See, the problem I have here is if the MMO part of the game, where you actually need to get in a GROUP to obtain better gear, becomes solo, it destroys anything that the MMO genre stands for. Also, I cannot stand by watching someone obtaining gear so easily. Some efforts need to be done to obtain end-game gear. That includes having to deal with group drama. If you don't want to deal with the hassle of getting into operations, you're better playing a single-player RPG in that case. Edited February 21, 2012 by SnapWolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phydra Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 A few threads with similar ideas or ideas where there are convergence with this one: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=292775 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=309673 I'm sure there are more, but these are relatively recent. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxiousAlby Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 ZOMG guys I just got the BESTEST idea ever from this. There is like this game, right, that you can like control your companions and like do group quests with them, but like, alone, so I always have enough time to play! I think these would be great for you; Mass Effect, Dragon Age. We done here? BioWare decided to fix this problem for you before SWTOR came along, hell they even did it in fantasy OR SciFi. Kinda like vanilla or chocolate, **** you can even pick both! There are cheaper ways to play with yourself (and far better suited for what you have in mind) than paying $15/month to walk around alone in an MMO with the chatbox option disabled, avoid guilds because of their "drama", and in all ways being even more socialy reclusive than your average MMO player- which is an impressive feat. Why? If they did implement this, most of the content of the normal raids would have to be nurfed/removed so that the average person on the internet could accomplish it. Leaving you with realisticly little to enjoy. Many standalone games offer more content (than what you're suggesting) for the soloexperience and the possibility of 2/3 person multiplayer experience. Asking the Massively Multiplayer Online game industry to shorten their name (and purpose) to Online game industry is rather silly. Unless you wanted this to become an MMORPG-With the Option to Play with Yourself. Why are you playing an MMO if you seem to not enjoy interactions with people? I know playing with yourself is fun, even better infront of the computer, but that isn't what this game is made for. I understand that you implied you have a wife and that you can't always play with yourself as much as you want anymore, but then play with yourself on something that is designed for it. tl;dr Solo "raiding" exists and bioware has already made many examples of it for you to buy, don't ask an MMORPG to turn into an RPG (or some perverted hybrid), just go buy one that is already on the market. Edit; I thought about it, and although I had some VERY good points above I decided this should be implemented since it will benifit me as a "hardcore raider". Instead of people who don't understand the purpose of an MMO getting sad and leaving, they will stay and continue to blow $15/month (and they have every right to do so) on watered down crap. This might confuse you, but since this will give the devs more money to make cool stuff for those who understand what an MMO is and why they bought and subbed for one it works out great. edit tldr; ****-it the developers need more money from stupid people, go for it. All you Kabjat. "Hardcore raider?" lmfao Experienced much? Because if you were you would realise that in order to do solo flashpoints or Ops group content would not be affected. Those dungeons & raids would be instanced for solo play, same scripting only different loot tables & adjusted boss mechanics. Both grouped and solo players would not be sharing the same content, I get the feeling you probably havent raided before or if you have it's limited experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxiousAlby Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) There are no words to describe how much I LOVE this idea...I would also like to see it tiered so if two people want to go one brings 2 companions the other brings 3...etc...But I love, love, love this idea... I started a thread on this topic and reached 24 pages, 98% of respondants were very much in favour. Is there support for this type of play, most definately. Will we hear from BW on the subject? I hope so for the games sake. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=210135 Edited February 21, 2012 by NoxiousAlby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxiousAlby Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) See, the problem I have here is if the MMO part of the game, where you actually need to get in a GROUP to obtain better gear, becomes solo, it destroys anything that the MMO genre stands for. solo play with warzones, GTN, and general chat is a MMO. Hate to burst your bubble, an MMO is not defined by grouping but rather interaction. And as I stated that can be indicated by pvp, trading, & communication. Also, I cannot stand by watching someone obtaining gear so easily. Some efforts need to be done to obtain end-game gear. That includes having to deal with group drama. I cant stand how players get easy loot when getting carried by other players, you want something good then work for it and dont rely on others to get it for you. Have you tried playing the SW yet? Final boss in the class quest chain many players cant beat it without help, check out the class forums. Took me 2 hrs to figure it out through trial & error but I managed to solo him so dont tell me whats easy & whats not. If you don't want to deal with the hassle of getting into operations, you're better playing a single-player RPG in that case. Can you suggest one? with pvp warzones, GTN, general chat? and I will go play it Edited February 21, 2012 by NoxiousAlby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlaine Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Why are you playing an MMO if you seem to not enjoy interactions with people? You know, typically I would respond to your snide arrogance with my own brand of snide arrogance, but I'll let that go today. Suffice it to say that raiding is not required for social interaction. See, I get it. You know for 100% fact that you as a raider are an extreme minority. You know for 100% fact that if a mmo was released that catered to the more casual crowd and ditched raiding, that you'd probably never see another raid-oriented mmo again. So I understand. You fight for your raiding just like I fight for my crafting, and we're both fighting an ultimately losing battle. So keep up the good fight, for what good it will do you in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlaine Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) See, the problem I have here is if the MMO part of the game, where you actually need to get in a GROUP to obtain better gear, becomes solo, it destroys anything that the MMO genre stands for. Says who? You? MMO stand for massive multiplayer online. Not massive raids online. PVP warzones with a huge pool of people is massively multiplayer. Playing the market with thousands of other people is massively multiplayer. Developing a community based around merchants serving adventurers is massively multiplayer. Wandering around solo in a huge world where you can group up and interact with thousands of people is massively multiplayer. Raids also happen to be massively multiplayer, but they are far from the deciding factor of what makes a game a mmo. Edited February 21, 2012 by Marlaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnapWolf Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 solo play with warzones, GTN, and general chat is a MMO. Hate to burst your bubble, an MMO is not defined by grouping but rather interaction. And as I stated that can be indicated by pvp, trading, & communication. I cant stand how players get easy loot when getting carried by other players, you want something good then work for it and dont rely on others to get it for you. Have you tried playing the SW yet? Final boss in the class quest chain many players cant beat it without help, check out the class forums. Took me 2 hrs to figure it out through trial & error but I managed to solo him so dont tell me whats easy & whats not. Can you suggest one? with pvp warzones, GTN, general chat? and I will go play it I hate to burst your bubble, but maybe you're just not the type of person who likes to put in any effort in a video game? Why should a video game be dumbed down just for a specific group of gamers represented by you? I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnapWolf Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Says who? You? MMO stand for massive multiplayer online. Not massive raids online. PVP warzones with a huge pool of people is massively multiplayer. Playing the market with thousands of other people is massively multiplayer. Developing a community based around merchants serving adventurers is massively multiplayer. Wandering around solo in a huge world where you can group up and interact with thousands of people is massively multiplayer. Raids also happen to be massively multiplayer, but they are far from the deciding factor of what makes a game a mmo. Right. If you read the first part, you would have read that I wasn't referring to any PVP or PVE content specifically. Yet, you can get gear BOTH out of PVP and PVE. So what's your point? Edited February 22, 2012 by SnapWolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abelweltall Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 i would like too for more solo content, and a better use for the companions... maybe they could allow us to program the AI for them like DA origins or ff12 or/and allow us to use more than one compionion in some situations... that would be cool!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxiousAlby Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) I hate to burst your bubble, but maybe you're just not the type of person who likes to put in any effort in a video game? Why should a video game be dumbed down just for a specific group of gamers represented by you? I don't get it. On the contrary I do get it, I enjoy a challenge and controlling 3 companions while soloing a flashpoint or heroic would provide months of entertaining grind. Also there would be no dumbing down of content, if you understood how solo play works it would be the same flashpoints but instanced for solo play. Group content would not be affected, do you understand? Also the only reason boss mechanics may need to be toned down isnt because we dont want to put in effort but rather because companions dont know not to stand in fire. What we dont want is to be forced into grouping for character progression, because given the choice of quiting or doing as your told at my age? "i'm outta here." Edit: Also it's usually a good idea when you quote someone either attempt to answer their questions or at least your reply should be relevant to the quote Edited February 22, 2012 by NoxiousAlby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganrax Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Morning all. Not sure if I saw a suggestion forum, but I figured this would be the next best place to post this. I am going to give a small intro to my suggestion and reasoning behind it. Im sure a lot of people do not have time for raiding. Id venture a guess that a large majority of the population in SWTOR are people that grew up with the star wars saga(not the new movies), and are in their late 20s, 30s, or 40s. We have lives, families, kids, careers. This is not to say that there isnt a large size of people that have the time to raid. I commend you for having that time, I wish I did I stopped reading after this. Normal Mode operations are made specifically for casuals that don't have the time or skill to do the "real" operations. They are mind numbingly easy and take AT MOST 2-3 hours total to clear them both(with an entire week to do this before it resets). If you can't play this game for 2-3 hours a week to do something you are interested in doing then I don't think you are playing the right genre of video games when you decided to start playing an MMO, you're essentially wasting your money on the monthly fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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