Star Trek online vs TOR (READ)

[Lundli]

I had STO on preorder and got early access, luckily I managed to cancel my order in time.. the game was truly horrible anyway you see it

 

Haven't tried it since then, maybe it has improved.. somewhat.. but I doubt it's worth the effort of downloading it again.

[Mogitu]

What does NCsoft have to do with Terra? Also Arenanet has already proved that Guild Wars 2 is something special, something that is actually innovative.

 

it hasnt proved jack**** yet, try again after it actually launched......

[Gankdalf_]

STO is utter garbage. I have a Fed VA and a Klink and find the game boring, it's another hollow rip off MMO by Craptic. It has no depth other than wizzing around in miniture spaceships spamming the spacebar.

 

Yes the space battles are fun for a few hours but then it's just repetative boredom. Ground combat.... LOL

[Buxaroo]

Well they waste all that money for adding voice to kill & fetch quests so no surprise there :/

 

My friend that was playing GW2 last weekend told me that you have 5 skills that match weapons you use. So you have different 5 skills if you use 2 swords. Different when you use 1 sword or some huge 2-handed sword. Different when you use gun and sword.

 

Now you can't even compare something like that to **** Bioware present us.

 

Same with PVP. Here we have 3 small and boring warzones + broken Ilum. There you have huge epic battle between 3 servers in world vs world vs world fights.

 

It's not even cross server like in many MMO where bunch of folks join to do something on battleground. There you have contests between servers. How more cool it can be ?

 

Point is - GW 2 will appear and 2 things will happen. Arenanet will fail and GW 2 will be forgoten or TOR will eat dirt and only Star Wars fan boys, people that don't like fantasy and some of Bioware fanbase will remain.

 

From last beta I think that GW2 have better PVE content with no stupid instances EVERYWHERE. Better PVP content and on top of that - better engine, overall graphic and combat system.

 

I just hope that ArenaNet will deliver but after GW 1 I'm sure they can.

 

Spot on. The only "updates" TOR is going to get is the single player content (i.e. new storylines and voice acting) that won't satiate players long enough to keep subbed. I canceled and only have 9 days left on it, but after reaching 50 and finishing the storylines of a few classes, there is nothing to keep me interested in TOR long term. When they release new content, I will sub for a month and play it, but cancel once I finish it. The "endgame" content is a pure joke. PVP is a joke, its not more than a gear grind fest like WoW, thats it. No player-run places, or economies, nothing to keep me subbed long term.

 

Bottom line: SWTOR is what KOTOR 3 woyuld have been, with the added benefit of a chat room. No reason to keep playing the game once the storylines are finished. Space combat is an after thought, crafting is irrelevant (everyone drops their crafting to do biochem once they reach 50 because there is no reason to craft after that when all of the best gear is PVP based). Story-wise and voice acting are the only things TOR has going for it, not even Star Wars/KOTOR fans like me can get into this game after finishing the storylines.

[Cormey]

I was prepared to listen to the OP up until he pulled out yet another horrible car analogy.

 

Apparently he thinks TOR will kill people.

[XavierKeel]

Alright, for all of you guys saying "well STO was out much longer then swtor, of course its going to be better!" you really can't be saying that. It dosen't take a genius to see what other MMORPGs have that make them successful and fun. Especially for game deisgners. They should know what other games did that makes them great. And with the budget and time they had with this game, they should have took all of those great things and implemented them at launch. Why take the risk and wait years to implement then when people might not be satisfied at launch and just quit all together. Dosen't make sense IMO. Edited February 23, 2012 by XavierKeel

[JansanRuno]

I have a LTS to STO. I got caught up in the hoopla. Never again .. 3 months at a time here. Have not logged into STO since maybe 60 days after launch.

 

SWTOR is so much better than STO.

Edited February 23, 2012 by JansanRuno

[Klannad]

I was a little confusing in my usage of words. English isn't my first language, so that's my fault. I compared TOR to STO in terms of launch. And, to put it simply, how sto improved and went to a f2p method. STO is fun. TOR is fun. But, TOR has had a successful launch that is lagging, atm. THE POINT, sirs, of this post, wasn't to compare the gameplay of the games, comment on how you didn't read this post because I put (READ) (WHICH, I see was a waste of time, because if you had READ what i typed, you would see i wasn't trying to put TOR in a negative light)

 

 

The point of the post was this. TOR needs to update. It needs to update like STO did, But over a much quicker time period. The new game update looks promising, but bioware really needs to kick it into high gear. The game has promise, but right now, it's basically KOTOR 2. (Good, but unfinished)

[Guildrum]

I love how STO's fine points are, customization, companions and Space Combat. These are different games entirely, with different focal points. It's like comparing apples to pears (because SWG are oranges. )

[Sotaudi]

Hold on, fanboys. This isn't a thread about how much better star trek online is than starwars. It is just a simple comparasion. This thread isn't meant to make you go out and download trek, it's just meant for us to realize that TOR needs some major improvements.

 

 

Now, about Star Trek online. As many of you know, Star Trek Online (Which I will abbreviate into STO from now on) Has gone free to play. I downloaded it, and was immediately blown away. The character customization is immense. You are even given the option to craft your own alien species. You pick your class (Which, to be honest, are more or less the same) and go on to name your ship. As the game continues, you gather more ensigns (companions) and even have the ability to customize your companions. The big sell point was space battles. They are hetic, fun, and beautifully rendered. You really do feel like your actions have an impact in the galaxy, you are given missions that arent all the same and are against many different enemies.

 

Subscription games that go free-to-play typically do so because they cannot get enough interest in the game survive on subscriptions. They typically expect to survive by microtransactions and nickle and diming people to make up the difference.

 

That said, I played STO when it first came out. I did not realize at the time that they started off with an ingame store for microtransactions, so I played it for about a month then quit. However, even without the microtransactions, the game was not worth playing long term. It had some interesting components, but it was poorly designed.

 

Take, for example, your excitement over "designing your own alien species." You do realize that it was just character models from the set species that you could mix and match some what. So, basically, you were just customizing one of the other species but got to pick a different set of racial bonuses.

 

As far as the epic nature of the space battles, they have a interesting sytem, but, for instance (at least at time I played) the zones for space battle were fairly small, and you could not do things like a loop, so it was not completely free flight.

 

Ground missions were pretty simplistic and in extrodinarily small zones. The space port to senate towers area of Coruscant is larger than the ground missions zones in STO when I played, some not even that big. Hyperspace travel was like flying on a 3d tactical map, not moving through space.

 

With people comlpaining about polish in this game, STO was far less polished when I played.

 

Now, on to TOR...

 

Let me say that this game is good. But taking into thought that it took 5+ years to develop and over 100 MILLION dollars to make, it's not THAT good. For me, this is the second dissapointing bioware game after DRAGON AGE II. That being said, it's not as BAD as dragon age II, infact, it's not bad at all. But it needs to make some major enhancements if it's going to survive.

 

1. Customize companions. weapons and armour are fine, but if we were able to customize the cosmetic features of our companions, they become OUR creation, and make them all that more fun to manage and tweak. There is really no reason why this shouldn't be an option.

 

There are companion customization options available from vendors, and you can outfit them however you want. This is a bogus complaint.

 

2. Dyes. Seriously?? Dyes are a simple item that ALL MMOS have. The ability ( or lack, thereof) of being able to dye your clothing is unforgiveable.

 

Seriously? This is a problem? Dyes in most games are buggy and barely worth the effort, and many games do not include this feature at launch.

 

3. PVP. Pvp is fun, again, I don't HATE this game. (I still pay for it) but to launch a game with THREE maps (Huttball, Alderann, Space battle) is disgusting. non-instanced pvp is fun, but there are usually not alot of people to find if you travel to the marked zones. More maps need to be added. No MMO would even think about launching with this paltry amount.

 

This is simply nonsense. These kinds of maps are added as games expand. EQ2, to this day, has no instance PvP battlegrounds. I think you will also find that WoW did not have a significant number more of battlegrounds at launch.

 

Star wars needs to update. REALLY needs to update, because with huge mmos coming out this year (Guild wars 2, for example) I sense it will loose alot of subs to these heavy hitters. I think they released an unfinished game, and depended on the star wars name to sell (A la Kotor 2, anyone?) That being said, I do enjoy this game. I realize that yes, it is a launch title, and its early in its lifespan, but if you compete with a game that has been on the market for over 5 years, and has mountains of content, why wouldn't you develop and expand on those features for your game at launch? it's like releasing a car without an airbag, but then telling the customer (Oh, yes, well, the other car has airbags now, but we will have airbags in a year. don't worry). All in all, TOR has hope. But that hope is dwindling. Compared to Star Trek, it has a long way to go.

 

I think that anyone who holds up STO, a game that went free-to-play quicker than just about any subscription game, as an example TOR needs to look to, especially given its state at launch, holds absolutely no credibility whatsoever.

[JerokTalram]

SWTOR has several key features missing that other mmos have and yes they need to up there game but you cant really compare it to a game that has had two years post launch dev time.

 

Star Trek was a shocking game at launch its still pretty bad even after two years post launch development. It does have an ok character creation process, runs well (now), but the game gets boring very quickly and the ground combat is terrible.

 

The whole concept of STO is just wrong. Each toon scooting around the galaxy in personal ships. That's not Star Trek. I never thought it would make a good MMO and I found when I played it, that it really sucked and I couldn't get into it.

 

Now I'm not a Trekie but I have in the past played play by email star trek. I was a GM. All our games were based around a ship or base (DS9 like) and interaction happened between players on the ship and on away missions. But because it was play by email, people didn't have to be logged in at the same time to run missions or quests. They had a week to respond posts that they were in and the play was causal and worked well. That just doesn't work for an MMO.

 

You know what scifi show would have made a really good MMO game. Stargate. You group up with some people, jump through the stargate and run quests together. I played the beta SGW, it's a shame the developer went under.

[Klannad]

Subscription games that go free-to-play typically do so because they cannot get enough interest in the game survive on subscriptions. They typically expect to survive by microtransactions and nickle and diming people to make up the difference.

 

That said, I played STO when it first came out. I did not realize at the time that they started off with an ingame store for microtransactions, so I played it for about a month then quit. However, even without the microtransactions, the game was not worth playing long term. It had some interesting components, but it was poorly designed.

 

Take, for example, your excitement over "designing your own alien species." You do realize that it was just character models from the set species that you could mix and match some what. So, basically, you were just customizing one of the other species but got to pick a different set of racial bonuses.

 

As far as the epic nature of the space battles, they have a interesting sytem, but, for instance (at least at time I played) the zones for space battle were fairly small, and you could not do things like a loop, so it was not completely free flight.

 

Ground missions were pretty simplistic and in extrodinarily small zones. The space port to senate towers area of Coruscant is larger than the ground missions zones in STO when I played, some not even that big. Hyperspace travel was like flying on a 3d tactical map, not moving through space.

 

With people comlpaining about polish in this game, STO was far less polished when I played.

 

 

 

There are companion customization options available from vendors, and you can outfit them however you want. This is a bogus complaint.

 

 

 

Seriously? This is a problem? Dyes in most games are buggy and barely worth the effort, and many games do not include this feature at launch.

 

 

 

This is simply nonsense. These kinds of maps are added as games expand. EQ2, to this day, has no instance PvP battlegrounds. I think you will also find that WoW did not have a significant number more of battlegrounds at launch.

 

 

 

I think that anyone who holds up STO, a game that went free-to-play quicker than just about any subscription game, as an example TOR needs to look to, especially given its state at launch, holds absolutely no credibility whatsoever.

 

 

Dyes are not at all buggy. The customization for companions are superfical at best, so It is a legitimate complaint. And on to the maps. I have never played EQ2, but im also assuming the maps were large, not the tiny 4x4 maps we're given. While I agree with you that more content will be added, the maps, as they are, are either too small or just uninteresting. The comparison for STO was because they updated the game and made it more enjoyable, which, AGAIN, is what i'm saying for TOR.

[Sotaudi]

If you don't agree with me, then fine, and true, it has taken a long time for the improvements to be made. Regardless of your opinion, it cannot be argued that they have worked on the game. TOR needs to make the same improvements, or atleast SHOW that they care somewhat about their playerbase. They expect us to drink the star wars flavored kool aid and just play the game and accept it's awesome because x-play gave it a 5/5.

 

STO was able to make a fun game after they improved. We may have different ideas on what makes a good game, but you cannot disagree when I say that TOR was rushed, and depended on the ip to sell copies. Regardless, I do enjoy TOR, and I am patient to wait for improvements. The question is this : Will they improve the game? or will they let it sink?

 

I always love the "TOR was rushed" comments. I vividly remember the posts on the forums prior to release whining about how long people have been awaiting for the game and that, if it was put off even another quarter, they would not stick around for release.

 

TOR was no more rushed and no more unpolished than any game that has been released. As I said previously, STO at release was far, far, far less polished than TOR. I have not played it for a long time now, but from what I understand, most of the unpolished things about it still exist.

 

Either way, the whole question as to whether or not the "imporove the game" is nonsense. It is nonsense because they are already improving the game. It is also nonsense because people like yourself will complain no matter what they add.

[Lasarith]

I Stoped Playing STO, becouse the Buggered up the Ground Controls None of the Numbers on my keypad worked while on ground Missions, - Still loved the Space combat though.

[mcburly]

Sto????????

 

 

C'mon man!!!

[Jorelle]

STO has improved? Can you please tell me where? I popped in there last week, PvP has not been touched in 2 YEARS! It still lacks meaningful content, STILL has only one full faction and every decent bit of kit is up for sale for cashee money...........or you can grind it out for 3 years . I'm sorry but I fail to see the comparison and IF STO has more playability for you, adios. I really do hope you jest when you say that about BW following Cryptics examples.... they did nothing but make epic fubars, lie and rip-off its playerbase.

 

STO has improved, yes i do play both games, yes i like both IPs why because i can and really dont care if that makes anyone pissy. But anyway to the point, STO has improved a lot but still needs lots of work. I love the space combat and im not sure about pvp content but game content has been improved with feature episodes and especially with the Duty officer system, ground combat has been upgraded really good i like it but i dont prefer the FPS playstyle. Crafting i still think needs lots of work and overall it has potential yes POTENTIAL the same with TOR both has potential to be very good games.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Jorelle

[moman]

I don’t even know where to start with my disappointment of STO. I am a Trek fan through and through, but STO was hard to bare sometimes.

 

PvP-could actually be quite fun at times. There was enough variety with abilities, ships, gear, etc. to make it quite dynamic. But that was Fed v Fev. To date, there are only 2 factions in the game: Federation and Klingon. In space, the Klingons were VERY op. People on that side used to/still get bored all the time because the Feds would only que for Fed v Fed. One thing that is understandable is that the Fed side was half pvp/half pve, where the Klinks were designed to be more pvp focused. Now this is all fine in dandy if you had more factions, but the game has been out for 2 years and still has only 2 factions.

 

Ground combat (anything really)-is just HORRIBLE! As one game review stated, it was slow and clunky. TOR actually has flow and is far more fluid/smooth. In STO, I always felt there was some invisible force that made my avatar feel like a concrete statue.

 

Lack of content-even after the first year, there was still far lack of much to do. The game had the same raids that were buggy (to the point of not even being able to complete them) more than once and they only have 2 pvp modes and a handful of maps.

 

The UI was love/hate. It was in depth and honestly, TOR would do well to learn about the customization aspect of it. On the con side, you would click something, the button would highlight, but nothing would happen.

 

Overall-I played STO off and on for 2 years. I’d log in, eat up the latest content, run dome dailys for 2-3 weeks, then get bored. I sometimes drove myself mad looking for things to do, but you can only beat the same dead horse so many times. Even after the first year, the game still felt like it was in beta. Most of what kept bringing me back was awesome guild I was a part of.

 

Cryptic seemed to have lost of a lot of what it used to be in the last 2 or so years. City of Villains was a very fun game and was a large success. When Champions Online came out, it was a complete flop. To recoup its losses, Cryptic pushed STO out of the women which resulted in a premature birth.

[Spud_Kernow]

I actually downloaded STO again a few weeks ago to take my mind off being bored in fleet, i played STO at launch, clocked 18 hours on steam and uninstalled. I was terrible for reasons well covered in this thread.

 

All i will say is, its not and never will be the next big thing, but it has improved massively. I cant go as far to say i recommend you spend money on it, but i have had a fun few casual hours on it. Worth the hard drive space imho, and costs nothing.

 

To compare it to SWTOR though is bad, except as a way of illustrating that things get better.

Im on a break from TOR, i really hope they give me a reason to come back like STO did.

[Esquire]

I bought a lifetime before launch of STO (closed beta vet) and just gave away a full crew of EFF boffs, over 800K dil made into crafting mats, several blue/purple boffs, stacks and stacks of crafting mats and rares up to about 100 in each stack, gave away about 24 mil in eng credits, and left the game for good. Even with a lifetime they still count as a sub to their investors.

 

While STO had improved greatly since launch it has also went very far downhill in some ways also with F2P. It was basicly NGE-ed for F2P. There were 2 skill-box revamps, both were nothing more than NERFs to healing and tanking skills, all dil bought weapons were NERFED altho they left the existing alone (still have my 10s antiprotons dual heavys with 2 crit, 50 sev, and 10 ACC), C-Store prices were basicly doubled even for subed players, P2W was introduced in a large way in the C-Store (look at the bug and the galor), and the game had a mass exodus (just before F2P) just like SWG did.

 

I have to agree with you that character customization is almost 2nd to none (altho SWG's character creator was just about as good) and it ends up that is about all that STO has going for it. The Cryptic engine is way more laggy that the hero engine. (that's why no1 likes and calls it lolground) You hit torps in space combat and maybe they fire 5-10 secs later. While the hero engine seems to have a sec or 2 lag it is nothing like that.

 

The storys you get in STO are lackluster at best altho there are a few that seems to stand out. The features they've put in have mostly been done well altho go try explore missions for a couple of days. (you'll get dailys for them at end game and they are the most boring deals I've ever seen in an MMO and I ground NK, SK, etc 100s of times over in SWG. You end up knowing the entire deal by reading the intro message. TOR has nothing to worry about via story with Cryptic or STO.

 

STO is all P2W (Pay to Win) now. So if you do not want to pay for a sub, and be headed to the C-Store at every turn and every 5 minutes, even have a dream of exceling in PVP, head on over to STO and the C-Store. They re-made the game (NGE-ed) just for you.

[Chaqa]

I played STO for awhile, character creation and uniform customization was great, PvP was ok, PvE just bad.

[Melkathi]

I did not read the thread because it said (READ) in the title...

 

(just feedback for the OP about title names )

Edited February 23, 2012 by Melkathi

[Jorelle]

I bought a lifetime before launch of STO (closed beta vet) and just gave away a full crew of EFF boffs, over 800K dil made into crafting mats, several blue/purple boffs, stacks and stacks of crafting mats and rares up to about 100 in each stack, gave away about 24 mil in eng credits, and left the game for good. Even with a lifetime they still count as a sub to their investors.

 

While STO had improved greatly since launch it has also went very far downhill in some ways also with F2P. It was basicly NGE-ed for F2P. There were 2 skill-box revamps, both were nothing more than NERFs to healing and tanking skills, all dil bought weapons were NERFED altho they left the existing alone (still have my 10s antiprotons dual heavys with 2 crit, 50 sev, and 10 ACC), C-Store prices were basicly doubled even for subed players, P2W was introduced in a large way in the C-Store (look at the bug and the galor), and the game had a mass exodus (just before F2P) just like SWG did.

 

I have to agree with you that character customization is almost 2nd to none (altho SWG's character creator was just about as good) and it ends up that is about all that STO has going for it. The Cryptic engine is way more laggy that the hero engine. (that's why no1 likes and calls it lolground) You hit torps in space combat and maybe they fire 5-10 secs later. While the hero engine seems to have a sec or 2 lag it is nothing like that.

 

The storys you get in STO are lackluster at best altho there are a few that seems to stand out. The features they've put in have mostly been done well altho go try explore missions for a couple of days. (you'll get dailys for them at end game and they are the most boring deals I've ever seen in an MMO and I ground NK, SK, etc 100s of times over in SWG. You end up knowing the entire deal by reading the intro message. TOR has nothing to worry about via story with Cryptic or STO.

 

STO is all P2W (Pay to Win) now. So if you do not want to pay for a sub, and be headed to the C-Store at every turn and every 5 minutes, even have a dream of exceling in PVP, head on over to STO and the C-Store. They re-made the game (NGE-ed) just for you.

 

just wondering in what ways did they make STO P2W (pay to win)?

[Esquire]

just wondering in what ways did they make STO P2W (pay to win)?

 

It started small to be honest. 1st, there was the excel (crusier) with an additional 3rd tac boff slot. Cryptic, afer some time, put in a way to get it in game (500 emblems grind) but there still was a way to get it in game. Every account had access to tier 5 ships, now they are all C-Store. Then came many more ships out with additional boffs slots, then came the fancy consoles that added DPS, specials, more power, etc etc etc ALL included in the C-Store. With STO's NGE (F2P), all of them were taken to the C-store with NO way to obtain them in game. Even the developers called them tier 5.1 ships. The Borg set, that you could get in game (still can) was not just hit with the NERF bat, it was crushed. (I had at least 4 sets on every Ad toon)

 

Now, it's "grab bag" development. Buy a chance to get the bug and currently going on with the key scam, a chance to buy the galor. All the time being spammed by such and such got the galor. (some in the community believe that these people do not even exist and the spam is for nothing more than to make you go buy more keys). Both of those ships are so overpowered it isn't even funny anylonger. An escort (the supposed glass cannon) with 3 eng slots and now a crusier (galor) with weapons with 7.5 ACC on them (there was a typo that said at 1st it was 75% ACC). Wait till you see the new player designed Enterprise that hits the C-Store as well. I'm sure it will be as just as "smack some1 in the face" OP as the rest or even more.

 

They HAVE to get you you to hit the C-Store now and frequently. More and more P2W items will be introduced. It's only a matter of time before weapons, shield sets, etc will be added as well. More grab bags? They seem to have worked for Cryptic so far.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Esquire

[Jorelle]

oh i also forgot to add what is good going for STO is the user generated ideas that is called the Foundry.

[Canuck_TwnTNN]

I have been a Career Officer in STO (Lifetime) since pre-launch and I will let you in on a little secret.

 

STO has, for all intents and purposes, pretty much sucked bolz for 22 of it's 24 month life.

 

Sure, the character creator is very robust, but for the first 20 months, STO was simply not fun to play and even now, the PvE is still completely uninspired.

 

There is very good mission depth from a storyline aspect, the the actual gameplay is slow, repetitive, predictable and repetitive. Hit "F" for everything.

 

HOWEVER, to be faire, STO's been revamped for f2p (some would say P2W now), and is in its best shape since for ever. So yeah.. I can completely agree that now, STO is totaly worth the price!

 

You just have to get past the idea that you have to buy High Tiered items from the C-Store... I tems that you can't earn in the game via regular play... so yeah... Pay to Win is a reality in a lot of respects if you want to excell at end game.

 

Cheers!

Career_Canuck

Edited February 23, 2012 by Canuck_TwnTNN