DarthNeph Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 So why is it that if you are a PvE'er you can select what your full group comp and who you play with, but as a PvP'er you have to accept that the developers only think that you have 3 friends you want to play with? Also PvE'ers can select which instances / raids they want to do, where as PvPers just have to take what they get. Just because this is the way they did it in a lot of other MMO's doesn't mean it's the correct way of doing it. PUGs ruin PvP for most organized groups 99% of the time and make running warzones tedious and aggravating. I don't care if you make another separate queue for full 8 man premade groups as putting them in with the PUGs would be a little unfair to the solo queuers. Just make a queue for full 8 man premades and give us the ability to decide who we are going to play with, rated or not (preferrably not, since the rating system is a ways off and I don't think I can wait around in this terrible system for that long without being able to play with a whole 7 friends rather than 3). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MashTactics Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) No. 8-man premades would be the death of PvP in this game. Have you even listened to the ************ about the 4 man premades? Edited February 21, 2012 by MashTactics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNeph Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 fine, then add a solo only queue while you are at it. If people whine about premades, they are probably pugs. If people want to take the time to form a premade, they shouldn't have to carry 4 mouth breathers who think it's good to autorun in a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 While it's true pugs ruin organized groups, the reverse is true too and they're going to cater to the pugs/casuals cause that's the majority of the playerbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TapSumBatt Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Proud and 2nd class then :> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerdoc Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 You couldn't think of even more misleading title, could you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane_Mkvenner Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Second class is right. Now get to the back of the bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNeph Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 You couldn't think of even more misleading title, could you? Since PvE'ers don't have to deal with pugs and get to choose what content they do, and PvP'ers get neither of these privileges. Second class citizens is a good description of the industry standard for PvPers in MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manigma Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Second class in this game, but there are plenty of PVP MMO's out there if you look, not many new ones mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lykurgus Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I approve and/or endorse this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssfbistimg Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 fine, then add a solo only queue while you are at it. If people whine about premades, they are probably pugs. If people want to take the time to form a premade, they shouldn't have to carry 4 mouth breathers who think it's good to autorun in a corner. hey I'm sorry but I single handily won many warzones by auto running in a corner. It completely confuses the other team and they just freeze up. So don't hate on this technique just cause you can't get same results as me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRINnBARRETT Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 IMO there isn't enough interest to have 8 man premades in order to have viable queues for both premaders & puggers. If queues ever opened up to cross server then it would be viable possibly. And as far as 8 mans against pure puggers...isn't going to happen. BW knows where it's bread is buttered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 This is an MMO RPG. All content is PvE, including Warzones. You aren't fighting other players, you are fighting their gear and class making them slightly less predictable mobs. If you want PvP, then you need to play a PvP game or petition Bioware to add actual PvP to the game (i.e. warzones where all stats from gear are normalized, kind of like the bolster system but better implemented). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRINnBARRETT Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 This is an MMO RPG. All content is PvE, including Warzones. You aren't fighting other players, you are fighting their gear and class making them slightly less predictable mobs. If you want PvP, then you need to play a PvP game or petition Bioware to add actual PvP to the game (i.e. warzones where all stats from gear are normalized, kind of like the bolster system but better implemented). This is pretty accurate. Games that normalize gear have a much better pvp environment IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaskaszh Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 So why is it that if you are a PvE'er you can select what your full group comp and who you play with, but as a PvP'er you have to accept that the developers only think that you have 3 friends you want to play with? Also PvE'ers can select which instances / raids they want to do, where as PvPers just have to take what they get. Just because this is the way they did it in a lot of other MMO's doesn't mean it's the correct way of doing it. PUGs ruin PvP for most organized groups 99% of the time and make running warzones tedious and aggravating. I don't care if you make another separate queue for full 8 man premade groups as putting them in with the PUGs would be a little unfair to the solo queuers. Just make a queue for full 8 man premades and give us the ability to decide who we are going to play with, rated or not (preferrably not, since the rating system is a ways off and I don't think I can wait around in this terrible system for that long without being able to play with a whole 7 friends rather than 3). I'm going to try and explain this one last time, rationally, without flaming. I've done it so often it feels pointless, but... 1- The main focus of this game is overwhelmingly PvE. The pre-release marketing said so; it was blatant, obvious, and very clear. 2- PvP is considered something "we have to put in for the PvPers". But it's not who the game is mainly aimed at. 3- PvPers are disappointed because the game isn't mainly focused on PvP. 4- Bioware isn't responsible for PvPers' expectations not being met. They told you this was going to be mainly a PvE game. It's that simple; PvP looks like it's the "second class citizen" of this particular MMO because the game was designed mainly for PvEers from the ground up. It's really that simplae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oghier Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) So why is it that if you are a PvE'er you can select what your full group comp and who you play with, but as a PvP'er you have to accept that the developers only think that you have 3 friends you want to play with? Also PvE'ers can select which instances / raids they want to do, where as PvPers just have to take what they get. I understand your points, but disagree with them: - 8 man premades mean the pug on the other side has gone from little chance to zero. The only way 8 man premades can work is if they are in a separate queue, - Choosing your conflict sounds great, but it will inevitably lead to only one warzone being played. People will pick whichever has the fastest time/ valor ratio, even if playing that same one over and over bores them to tears and, eventually, quitting Sometimes, we players need to be protected from ourselves. These are two such examples. Edited February 21, 2012 by Oghier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdarpa Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 No. 8-man premades would be the death of PvP in this game. Have you even listened to the ************ about the 4 man premades? Nah, it would just mean that the carebears would go back to WoW/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahor Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) nonsens You are SO wrong. Every MMO I know even if first created as pur PvE MMO changed to PvP based becouse of all the PvP whine all the time. WoW is the best excample. First you had NO war zones. Just a bit open PvP without deeper sense. It was all about FUN. But then Bliz introduced Alterac and later on this (realy stupid) 5v5,3v3 and most terrible 2v2 Ego Shooter bs. And suddenly every PvE balance was completly ignored becouse of PvP mass whine threads. PvP player dominate forums to such an extend, that they realy belive, they are important ... but they are NOT. PvP players are just a small percentage of the overall player base. But each PvP player crys and whines for 1000 PvE player. kkthxbye OT: premade 8 man raids JUST AND ONLY for seperate queue:jawa_eek:. If you have to wait 10 hours for a match ... your problem. But do NOT destroy the causal PvP. Edited February 21, 2012 by Jahor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNeph Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 I'm going to try and explain this one last time, rationally, without flaming. I've done it so often it feels pointless, but... 1- The main focus of this game is overwhelmingly PvE. The pre-release marketing said so; it was blatant, obvious, and very clear. 2- PvP is considered something "we have to put in for the PvPers". But it's not who the game is mainly aimed at. 3- PvPers are disappointed because the game isn't mainly focused on PvP. 4- Bioware isn't responsible for PvPers' expectations not being met. They told you this was going to be mainly a PvE game. It's that simple; PvP looks like it's the "second class citizen" of this particular MMO because the game was designed mainly for PvEers from the ground up. It's really that simplae. None of these excuses makes it impossible or even improbable for Bioware to add to the PvP end of the game. I wasn't complaining about how these things aren't already in the game, I was suggesting that they should be added and giving reasons why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNeph Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 I understand your points, but disagree with them: - 8 man premades mean the pug on the other side has gone from little chance to zero. The only way 8 man premades can work is if they are in a separate queue, - Choosing your conflict sounds great, but it will inevitably lead to only one warzone being played. People will pick whichever has the fastest time/ valor ratio, even if playing that same one over and over bores them to tears and, eventually, quitting Sometimes, we players need to be protected from ourselves. These are two such examples. If you read past the first paragraph of my post I suggested that full premades vs pug groups is not feasible for exactly that reason. I can see your point with the warzones though I remember warhammer where only 1 wz or whatever they were called in that game was ever played. Though I would rather be able to have the choice than have no choice at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNeph Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) You are SO wrong. Every MMO I know even if first created as pur PvE MMO changed to PvP based becouse of all the PvP whine all the time. WoW is the best excample. First you had NO war zones. Just a bit open PvP without deeper sense. It was all about FUN. But then Bliz introduced Alterac and later on this (realy stupid) 5v5,3v3 and most terrible 2v2 Ego Shooter bs. And suddenly every PvE balance was completly ignored becouse of PvP mass whine threads. PvP player dominate forums to such an extend, that they realy belive, they are important ... but they are NOT. PvP players are just a small percentage of the overall player base. But each PvP player crys and whines for 1000 PvE player. kkthxbye OT: premade 8 man raids JUST AND ONLY for seperate queue:jawa_eek:. If you have to wait 10 hours for a match ... your problem. But do NOT destroy the causal PvP. Thank you for reminding me of what PvE whine posts look like. Also for reminding me that most people can't read. I suggested putting in both solo only and premade only queues. Since Bioware is going to be adding battlegroups the wait times for a premade queueing system shouldn't be too bad, longer than the pug queues but I'll put up with longer wait times if I don't have to put up with pugs. Edited February 21, 2012 by DarthNeph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 PvP in MMORPG will never be considered as real PvP, skillceiling is way too low to be cosidered as real PvP in every mmorpg made so far and made in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocNessMonster Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Second class lol, really that's why nerfs always come about due to pvp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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