No Cross Realm LFG tool please!

[NasherUK]

Flashpoint groups should be kept to same server only. Otherwise, like wow it destroys any sense of community :/

 

Because of things like this and insta-travel everywhere wow is no longer an MMO. It's a hack and slash game with cities acting like 3d chat rooms

 

Many people came to TOR BECAUSE they dont like wow any more, mainly due to crap like this. Bioware should not be trying to copy wow....

Edited March 20, 2012 by NasherUK

[Meldwyn]

I'm going to link this again for you to see. This was a concept someone proposed for a PvE LFG that isn't an automated system but would also avoid the whole General Chat Spam. NOTE this is just something a player put together and I found it to be a great piece of work. The thread is titled Group Mission Queue (Dungeon Finder) Pane Concept he even included an image of the Concept LFG Tool for us to see.

 

Even if you could go with the whole auto assign members and teleport you to the flashpoint but I don't wish it to be cross server.

 

Not a bad concept, and certainly a step in the right direction.

 

However, it is still very manual and only zone specific (WoW had this for Raids at one point, if I recall). I think a game that can automatically match players up for a WZs can do the same for PvE content. We can certainly start with same server, but I am confident it will go cross server at some point within the next year, or in the next "expansion".

[Blackardin]

What I liked most about older content and the cross server LFG tool was that it matched you with other characters at the appropriate levels for the content. It was near impossible to pull a group of friends and family that were all at the same level and the appropriate roles for any given dungeon without this tool (all leveling alts at the same time). I didn't enjoy getting "run through" older dungeons (cheap). I liked experiencing them and struggling through them with others who were at that same level. I even enjoyed doing this with total strangers. I never found rude or obnoxious players while doing this. Max level heroics, maybe, on occasion, but it wasn't the norm.

 

Granted, my experience may not be applicable to all, but I am not aware of any thorough studies about the "collapse of communities" and the reasons for it out there. If you are, please provide link.

 

No, I have to yeild to this point. It would make older content more viable because that is truly where one can hit a wall. I see no harm in this. However, I do feel that this game eliminates the need for such with the dynamic they have introduced for leveling. One can level through the entire game solo.

 

Now, if we are talking old flashpoints and heroics, sure, it could work....but, as you tended to imply, for new content, heroics etc? no. I see this as more game breaking then enhancing. For raiding? I did a few of the pug raids at the end. What a mess. People coming and going. No one paying attention. Leaders that had no clue. Yelling, complaining, foul language.

 

yes, just my personal experience....but it was like a playpen. ;p

[Meldwyn]

No, I have to yeild to this point. It would make older content more viable because that is truly where one can hit a wall. I see no harm in this. However, I do feel that this game eliminates the need for such with the dynamic they have introduced for leveling. One can level through the entire game solo.

 

Now, if we are talking old flashpoints and heroics, sure, it could work....but, as you tended to imply, for new content, heroics etc? no. I see this as more game breaking then enhancing. For raiding? I did a few of the pug raids at the end. What a mess. People coming and going. No one paying attention. Leaders that had no clue. Yelling, complaining, foul language.

 

yes, just my personal experience....but it was like a playpen. ;p

 

I can't even imagine raiding with pugs from cross servers. I haven't played WoW in about a year, so this was implemented after I left, but as a former raid leader with some pretty strict conduct rules for my guild, I can't ever see using that tool effectively. No thanks!

 

And yes, I would limit cross server LFG for older content and non-max fp's! I think that opens up otherwise forgotten or inaccessible content to all players. Especially since this game is so alt heavy.

[Blackardin]

While the LFG tool contributed to the community problems in WoW, you can't just say it created the problems. All of the problems that have been complained about and blamed on the LFG existed long before they had the LFG. The LFG just increased the average players exposure to the type of player that does not contribute to building a positive community experience for players.

 

It could also be argued that the very size of WoW contributed to this just as greatly as the LFG tool as well. There just isn't enough data to succinctly prove anything though. It's all just anecdotal evidence.

 

No, no. I'm not saying that it caused the problems. I'm arguing that it provided the vehicle from which it grew and expanded. Sort of like a petri dish for mold to grow. ;p

 

We have an LFG tool. People are not using it, and then complaining that we need something better that is not really better at all. There is a concept posted here, above, that I personally like. I'm not opposed to improvements. I just see cross server as a very bad thing overall.

[Blackardin]

I can't even imagine raiding with pugs from cross servers. I haven't played WoW in about a year, so this was implemented after I left, but as a former raid leader with some pretty strict conduct rules for my guild, I can't ever see using that tool effectively. No thanks!

 

Bedlam. Like nothing you've ever seen. LOL

 

And yes, I would limit cross server LFG for older content and non-max fp's! I think that opens up otherwise forgotten or inaccessible content to all players. Especially since this game is so alt heavy.

 

Agree, for the reasons you state.

[chaosdefined]

A few complain that the LFG Tool destroyed the community in WoW, yet that game is still sitting pretty on around 10million subscribers.

 

Those same people say that this game is much better off without an LFG Tool and yet it seems to be struggling to keep subscriptions.

 

I think that is a pretty strong case alone.

[DarthKhaos]

Not a bad concept, and certainly a step in the right direction.

 

However, it is still very manual and only zone specific (WoW had this for Raids at one point, if I recall). I think a game that can automatically match players up for a WZs can do the same for PvE content. We can certainly start with same server, but I am confident it will go cross server at some point within the next year, or in the next "expansion".

Note that the initial concept was showing for heroic quests which would be located on a specific planet. It could easily list instead of "Balmora" but "The False Emperor" or "Foundry" to show players LFG or groups LFM. Yes this is still a manual system which was designed as an upgrade to the current LFG tool.

 

Some may discount the effect of being anonymous on the actions of some people but others don't. I have left parties because I joined to notice a member was on my ignore list. Hopefully any automated system put in place will account for such things however it cannot let you invite players you know to be good.

 

The thing is even if someone isn't on your friends list you may have recognized them and recall they know what they're doing. You can decide to invite them if you see them in the list. This is just a single benefit of a manual system. The fully automated system for PvP has its disadvantages also because we all know be it PvP or PvE when the game randomly tosses the group together you tend to get a bunch of idiots more times than not. I've banged my head against my desk enough time at the lack of common sense displayed by players sometimes.

 

Bottom line is whatever system put in place I'd like to be able to interact with cool people I encounter through this type of content. More than just chatting. Even if they allow you to add people on other servers to your friends list you can't get their help or help them with heroic quests, crew skills, meet up over in Tatooine for some good ole free for all PvP or just act the fool on fleet together.

 

Cross server isn't going to allow for that.

[ferroz]

It has been demonstrated to have a vastly negative effect on "community" as well as inspiring negative individual behavior.

No, it's been claimed that it had a negative effect, but that hasn't been demonstrated.

 

It paved the way for such issues as "trash talking", "insulting and rude behavior" with no repercussions for such behavior.

Those issues existed in EQ, before wow existed. They existed in wow before lfd.

 

The greatest lie is that grouping will become easier, or faster and that is a fair trade-off. This is also untrue.

No, it's quite true.

 

DPS queues were getting longer and longer.

No, they had been pretty stable for more than a year; there was a change when cata launched, since the content was hard enough to make some people not want to tank.

 

The experience itself was deemed "poor", or "not enjoyable" by many.

The experience itself was also deemed good and enjoyable by many.

 

My last Queue for dps resulted in an estimated 1 hour wait.

My last queue for dps resulted in a 10 minute wait.

 

There are ways to improve grouping, but a cross server LFg tool is indeed one of them; it's the best of them, in fact.

Edited March 20, 2012 by ferroz

[ferroz]

And the one song pony strikes again. No one is advocating a General/LFG Chat spam. Well I'm not. Geesh...

you're advocating a system that isn't as effective as general chat spam...

[NasherUK]

A few complain that the LFG Tool destroyed the community in WoW, yet that game is still sitting pretty on around 10million subscribers.

 

Those same people say that this game is much better off without an LFG Tool and yet it seems to be struggling to keep subscriptions.

 

I think that is a pretty strong case alone.

 

They aren't on anywhere near 10 million any more, many people have quit because blizzard ruined the game with bad expansions/updates and making everything stupidly easy. Also most of those players are and always were in Asia, not EU/ US. Take away those and you won't have many more than TOR currently has. Pretty soon they will need to merge realms because many are now near empty.

 

The LFG tool was put in to wow a couple of years ago because there were no groups for non-endgame content. Now it's been expanded on because there are just no groups at all on many realms.

Edited March 20, 2012 by NasherUK

[ferroz]

Your personal experience, or mine for that matter, are irrelevant. I was projecting my personal experience as the overall experience.

Fixed that for you.

 

It is not needed for leveling in this game so that aspect would be moot also.

Sure, you don't have to run flashpoints while leveing... but the game is losing something significant as people stop running that content.

[ferroz]

They aren't on anywhere near 10 million any more, many people have quit because blizzard ruined the game with bad expansions/updates and making everything stupidly easy.

Nah, I'd say that it was more due to the fact that cata was a half *** expansion (seriously lacking in content) and that they yo-yo'd too much on difficulty.

 

Also most of those players are and always were in Asia, not EU/ US.

Source?

 

They were pretty much forced to make the LFG tool a couple of years ago because there were no groups for non-endgame content.

No, there were groups for endgame content...

[Andryah]

A few complain that the LFG Tool destroyed the community in WoW, yet that game is still sitting pretty on around 10million subscribers.

 

9.2 Million of those are Asian coin-play on Asian servers.

 

Try again.

[NasherUK]

Nah, I'd say that it was more due to the fact that cata was a half *** expansion (seriously lacking in content) and that they yo-yo'd too much on difficulty.

 

Source?

 

No, there were groups for endgame content...

 

China is wow's biggest market by a LONG way, where they pay a fraction of the subscription price we do.

 

There aren't physically enough servers to handle more than 2-3 million in EU/US.

[Datku]

cross server lfg tool is needed sadly. Having a max level character it can be difficult to find a group to do anything some days. My sorc is fairly well geared from doing many guild runs and ops but sometimes no one is around to do an instance. Sure I don't need anything out of them but I like to play so I try to use the lfg flag and general chat and nothing. So I end up logging out instead.

 

Have lower level alts...its impossible to be able to do flash points on lower level alts. No one is running flash points because it takes hours after hours to fill a group. Even doing heroic 4's on lower levels is starting to prove a waste of time. I can land on a planet. Pick up all the heroic quests. Use general to lfg for all heroics. Meanwhile do story line quests and side quests. All the time lfg any heroic. I will finish the planet off of every quest possible except for the heroics. In many cases missing out on some good upgrades because no groups. One of my alts is on Alderran now. I still have heroic 4 from Ballmora, nar shada, tatoinee, and alderran now that I have not done because can never find a group. Did black talon flash points a few times, never did hammer station, athiss, mandalorean raiders, cademimu pretty much every single flash point after BT I have not been able to do on either of my alts because of no groups.

 

No heroics, no flash points I am missing out on pretty close to all group activities on the alts....it is a single player game. Even at max levels some times can't find a group (normal or even hard mode or even pulling lower levels through instances). I end up standing around in fleet zoning out waiting for PvP to pop until I get so bored I log off. In a perfect world I would love to not need a cross server lfg tool...but the state of things currently one is desperately needed otherwise people on alts, and new players are going to miss out on a lot the game has to offer.

[macphisto]

We really need cross server LFG tool, so far today ive spent 2 hours spamming on fleet for a HM FP and still no group. I understand the views of it could spoil the community but when you cant play the game because you cant get a group i think we really need this.

[Snoodmaster]

They aren't on anywhere near 10 million any more, many people have quit because blizzard ruined the game with bad expansions/updates and making everything stupidly easy. Also most of those players are and always were in Asia, not EU/ US. Take away those and you won't have many more than TOR currently has. Pretty soon they will need to merge realms because many are now near empty.

 

Actually it seems that the majority of the losses were from China.

 

Originally posted by http://www.industrygamers.com/news/world-of-warcraft-subscriber-losses-concerning-analysts/

Morhaime then proceeded to talk about the elephant in the room: “WoW finished the quarter with 10.3 million active subscribers worldwide, which is down from the previous quarter. While the majority of these declines are coming from the East, WoW continues to be one of the most popular online games in China and remains by far the most popular subscription-based MMO in the world.”

 

 

And the losses seem to be slowing, at least in December of 2011. http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/02/09/world-of-warcraft-subscriber-numbers/ It should be interesting to see what the numbers for Q1 2012 are, but to say that WoW is dead or dying is a vast overexageration.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Snoodmaster

[DarthKhaos]

cross server lfg tool is needed sadly. Having a max level character it can be difficult to find a group to do anything some days. My sorc is fairly well geared from doing many guild runs and ops but sometimes no one is around to do an instance. Sure I don't need anything out of them but I like to play so I try to use the lfg flag and general chat and nothing. So I end up logging out instead.

 

Have lower level alts...its impossible to be able to do flash points on lower level alts. No one is running flash points because it takes hours after hours to fill a group. Even doing heroic 4's on lower levels is starting to prove a waste of time. I can land on a planet. Pick up all the heroic quests. Use general to lfg for all heroics. Meanwhile do story line quests and side quests. All the time lfg any heroic. I will finish the planet off of every quest possible except for the heroics. In many cases missing out on some good upgrades because no groups. One of my alts is on Alderran now. I still have heroic 4 from Ballmora, nar shada, tatoinee, and alderran now that I have not done because can never find a group. Did black talon flash points a few times, never did hammer station, athiss, mandalorean raiders, cademimu pretty much every single flash point after BT I have not been able to do on either of my alts because of no groups.

 

No heroics, no flash points I am missing out on pretty close to all group activities on the alts....it is a single player game. Even at max levels some times can't find a group (normal or even hard mode or even pulling lower levels through instances). I end up standing around in fleet zoning out waiting for PvP to pop until I get so bored I log off. In a perfect world I would love to not need a cross server lfg tool...but the state of things currently one is desperately needed otherwise people on alts, and new players are going to miss out on a lot the game has to offer.

And how will cross server LFG help you do heroic quests on your alts?

[Aepervius]

I use LFD several times a week in Rift, and have for many months.

 

It works fine, and I've not experienced any of the poor behavior people experienced in WoW.

 

I'm not sure why WoW seems to have had such an amazingly bad community.

 

It's sad that it did.

 

It is a combination of negative selection bias (people will not remember the 50 PUG which went well, but will remember the one which went belly up) and a combination of the fact that you can need on EQ which is not your class. Also of note : in rift, you cannot need as a mage on a plate stuff. The button is simply disabled. That totally curb the ninja behavior.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Aepervius

[Snoodmaster]

And how will cross server LFG help you do heroic quests on your alts?

 

The same people who would see his chat spam are the ones who would be in a single server lfg. If there aren't enough people on the server at the same level range (they would be on the planet with him to see his chat spam) then a single server LFG wouldn't do him any good.

[NotDonnaReed]

Porting you to the FP is critical actually. If the LFG doesn't port you then you'd have to interrupt your questing and travel through all the speeder bikes, spaceports, orbital stations, personal starships and load screens.

 

I'm not sure if you've noticed this, but every planet has a flashpoint quest droid standing next to a shuttle that takes you directly to the Fleet. You're talking one speeder hop, max.

[Gavin_Darkl]

The same people who would see his chat spam are the ones who would be in a single server lfg. If there aren't enough people on the server at the same level range (they would be on the planet with him to see his chat spam) then a single server LFG wouldn't do him any good.

 

It does not matter you are not getting a cross server LFG tool. BW already said it will be single server so why are you bringing up a pointless debate? They are already looking at server mergers which is better then a cross server LFG tool.

[Tahana]

It is a combination of negative selection bias (people will not remember the 50 PUG which went well, but will remember the one which went belly up) and a combination of the fact that you can need on EQ which is not your class. Also of note : in rift, you cannot need as a mage on a plate stuff. The button is simply disabled. That totally curb the ninja behavior.

 

Have they fixed it so a plate wearer can't need on leather? Have the fixed the issue where the leather for DPS warriors is better than plate?

 

two of the big issues that were still happening in that game when I said good riddance.

[NotDonnaReed]

I know when I left they still hadn't fixed the issue where a certain type of healer could need on just about EVERYTHING. Here's hoping they put some serious thought into the loot mechanics.