No Cross Realm LFG tool please!

[Kaititiro]

Double post please ignore. Darn cellphones. Edited March 20, 2012 by Kaititiro

[ConradLionhart]

I feel like I've stated this numerous times, but I feel the need to keep stating it.

 

LFD is fine as long as it is on your own server, and it doesn't port you to the flashpoint instantly (no point because currently all flashpoints are located in the Republic Fleet).

 

Already I am encountering the same people to do flashpoints with, and eventually some of them joined my guild.

 

You want community? No cross-server LFD.

[Toxen]

This game has become an experiment on "how much can we NOT give the customers' what they want". If we want to get this game moving, we the players have to keep demanding the features we want until they finally give in. Otherwise, ppl will just take their $15/ month elsewhere.

 

I think the only thing keeping this game alive right now, is the loyal fans who wanted to love this game cause of KOTOR and the fact that it's a better Star Wars game than SWG. But that will only last for so long until folks have had enough.

[NotDonnaReed]

Frankly I don't understand why everyone thinks bioware would copy a LFD design without addressing its shortcomings. At any rate your worst case scenario is certainly better than spamming for 2h, not finding anyone and just giving up.

 

I hope you're right. It concerns me that WoW was unable to fix the problems with their LFG tool for three years. Every time they implemented a fix, such as the votekick, people found a way to circumvent or abuse it, so determined were they to grief other people.

 

I believe destructive behavior increases with perceived anonymity. That's why big schools have more disciplinary problems than small schools and why big cities have higher crime rates than small towns. People will do all kinds of things if they think they can get away with it.

 

Maybe the creative geniuses at BioWare will come up with some innovative solution to this problem, and we can roll it out worldwide.

 

In the meantime, here are some ways you can get your flashpoints done.

 

--Offer to help people with 2 man heroics and add them to your friends list.

--Create an LFG channel on your server, and invite everyone on the Fleet to join it every time you're on the Fleet; yes, people really do use those channels.

--Check the Who list for everyone within range of the flashpoint you want to do (e.g., 27-32) and send them a private message asking if they want to come.

--Gear up one of your companions so it can fill the 4th role in a dungeon group. I know a couple of guys who 2-manned everything up to Colicoid.

--Look up the strats for the boss fights in advance, and offer to lead the group. (This is a strong selling point in the more complex flashpoints like Colicoid which are impossible if you don't know how to do them.)

--If all else fails, RP. "Master Satele urgently needs my assistance! Can anyone help me defeat the Mandalorian Raiders?!" Sometimes 50s run through old flashpoints for fun, and they may be so impressed by your moxie that they offer to bring you along or run through with you on their alt.

 

The bottom line is you don't have to wait for someone else to fix this for you; you can fix it yourself. Everyone on my server has been complaining that there's no PVP at level 50. The warzone queues just never pop. So I contacted every guild on both factions and invited them to a scheduled PVP event. We got the queues to pop for the first time in months, and it was a lot of fun, so now we're going to do it every week.

 

People seem to want things handed to them instead of making it happen for themselves. A guy in my guild jumped ship a week after he turned 50 because he said we hadn't invited him to any hard modes. Mind you, the first thing he did after he turned 50 was create an alt. He didn't finish his class quest. He didn't do any dailies. He didn't craft any epic gear. I guess he expected us to just carry him through some hard modes, and we probably would've tried if he'd bothered to sign up on our raid calendar. I'm sure he wants an LFG too.

[Moricthian]

LFD is fine as long as it is on your own server, and it doesn't port you to the flashpoint instantly (no point because currently all flashpoints are located in the Republic Fleet).

 

Porting you to the FP is critical actually. If the LFG doesn't port you then you'd have to interrupt your questing and travel through all the speeder bikes, spaceports, orbital stations, personal starships and load screens. If the lfg does not port you to the fp than it still wouldn't be worth doing flashpoints more than PvP. We need a system thats just like the PvP que but with flashpoints instead. Seeing as how the PvP que system has not destroyed the community, there is no rationale as to why we should expect a different result with PvE.

[DarthKhaos]

Imagine trying to drive a car with out wheels, you wouldn't get vary far.

Then they invented the hover car and you go further!

 

And what the hell are you supposed to do meanwhile? Sit in fleet because theres no official global channel? Yes, the game forcing me to sit with my arms crossed at fleet because I want to find a group for 2h makes for a terribad gaming experience.

Use the current LFG tool. People claim that they don't want to be standing in fleet spamming general chat yet they refuse to use the tool and opt to ... stand in fleet spamming general chat ... !?!?!? Huh !?!?!? Makes no sense.

 

If you don't know all that it can do follow the link in my signature.

 

People seem to want things handed to them instead of making it happen for themselves. A guy in my guild jumped ship a week after he turned 50 because he said we hadn't invited him to any hard modes. Mind you, the first thing he did after he turned 50 was create an alt. He didn't finish his class quest. He didn't do any dailies. He didn't craft any epic gear. I guess he expected us to just carry him through some hard modes, and we probably would've tried if he'd bothered to sign up on our raid calendar. I'm sure he wants an LFG too.

This is so true. You have no idea I see someone looking for 1 more like a dps or healer and open the tool and see someone in say huttball flagged LFG or over on Ilum. People refuse to use the tool and say it sucks but are so blinded with wanting what WoW has that they fail to see something that can help them find groups faster then complain that they take so long to find a group.

Edited March 20, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[Meldwyn]

Can someone please, rationally and succinctly, explain what the difference in PvP and PvE are when it comes to queuing (cross server LFG tool) and the adverse affects it may or may not have on an in-game community?

 

This one really defies logic, in my mind. But, maybe I am not being logical here.

 

Or, am I reading this wrong, and the PvP crowd is quitting because a cross server queuing system is being put in place for PvP?

 

In my book, what's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

[DarthKhaos]

Porting you to the FP is critical actually. If the LFG doesn't port you then you'd have to interrupt your questing and travel through all the speeder bikes, spaceports, orbital stations, personal starships and load screens. If the lfg does not port you to the fp than it still wouldn't be worth doing flashpoints more than PvP. We need a system thats just like the PvP que but with flashpoints instead. Seeing as how the PvP que system has not destroyed the community, there is no rationale as to why we should expect a different result with PvE.

Critical because you have to stop questing to go the flashpoint!?!?!? You can't do em both at the same time you know.

Let me let you in on a secret. It's called the Fleet Shuttle. Now I know what you're thinking it's a 20hr cooldown or you need the security key tied to your account to get em. Well that's Emergency Fleet Pass (20hr cooldown) and Fleet Pass (1hr cooldown). You see there's a fleet shuttle located near a quick travel location on EVERY planet. So Party is ready for flashpoint QT to that location and BOOM in the blink of an eye you're on fleet. No space ports, no orbital stations, no speeders no nothing! Another example of people not using the tools available to them and complaining constantly.

[Caelith]

I hate people who claim it kills community.

 

What killed 'community' in other games was the number of people from various backgrounds playing, joining guilds and becoming insular.

 

I have made some great friends in various games via region chat, city chat etc. I have never made a friend stood around spamming 'lfg xxx' or from the resulting run.

 

Bioware should encourage people to have a community and to take part (look at tera and the the government thing) maybe have the most popular and helpful players given a role on servers as community spokesmen.

[DarthKhaos]

Can someone please, rationally and succinctly, explain what the difference in PvP and PvE are when it comes to queuing (cross server LFG tool) and the adverse affects it may or may not have on an in-game community?

 

This one really defies logic, in my mind. But, maybe I am not being logical here.

 

Or, am I reading this wrong, and the PvP crowd is quitting because a cross server queuing system is being put in place for PvP?

 

In my book, what's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

Firstly the nature of how a PvP battle works. You need both sides to be there and ready to go or it's not really going to be a battle. In PvE whenever one side is ready both sides is ready because the game is always ready there and waiting.

 

You talk about what's good for the goose is good for the gander, well PvE has a major advantage. They can take a break. If something comes up the group can wait to grab the next pull or engage the boss. I can see how that'll play off in PvP.

"Hey guys the healer on our team needs to go deal with the washing machine overflowing can you guys wait?"

"Sure..." ~snicker~

How about filling a slot with a companion? Crap our dps disconnected... Well our tank and healer is on point break out a dps companion and let's continue. Can't do that in PvP. I wonder how Khem would "Pass the Huttball"?

 

Bottom line you can't expect everything to work the same in PvP and PvE. Even abilities work differently. Imagine a sage with the ability to use force lift with no cooldown and it lasts 30 seconds. Over Powered.

[amantheil]

(delete) Edited March 20, 2012 by amantheil

[Meldwyn]

Firstly the nature of how a PvP battle works. You need both sides to be there and ready to go or it's not really going to be a battle. In PvE whenever one side is ready both sides is ready because the game is always ready there and waiting.

 

You talk about what's good for the goose is good for the gander, well PvE has a major advantage. They can take a break. If something comes up the group can wait to grab the next pull or engage the boss. I can see how that'll play off in PvP.

"Hey guys the healer on our team needs to go deal with the washing machine overflowing can you guys wait?"

"Sure..." ~snicker~

How about filling a slot with a companion? Crap our dps disconnected... Well our tank and healer is on point break out a dps companion and let's continue. Can't do that in PvP. I wonder how Khem would "Pass the Huttball"?

 

Bottom line you can't expect everything to work the same in PvP and PvE. Even abilities work differently. Imagine a sage with the ability to use force lift with no cooldown and it lasts 30 seconds. Over Powered.

 

I understand there are inherit differences between the two in game play, but the queuing doesn't matter in that regard.

 

Why can't people spam LFG for PvP Huttball (or use the same crappy LFG tool that exists now for PvE), and once a group is formed, they have to go to the warzone and wait for another group to do the same on the opposing side (same faction or not).

 

Queuing for PvP is easy street, but for PvE its work. But if you want a LFG tool that does anything auto, you are called lazy, but PvP'ers aren't for the same functionality. Makes no sense.

 

Make PvP work for their matches as well... or, they should be called lazy.

[Blackardin]

Cross Server LFG Tool.

 

One of the things on my "Most Anticipated" list.

 

The community will survive...or is it that fragile that people spamming for groups in a channel actually getting one ends up wrecking the place?

 

- DH

 

It has been demonstrated to have a vastly negative effect on "community" as well as inspiring negative individual behavior. In short, it helped to ruin Wow by making it an impersonal shooter MMO. It paved the way for such issues as "trash talking", "insulting and rude behavior" with no repercussions for such behavior.

 

The greatest lie is that grouping will become easier, or faster and that is a fair trade-off. This is also untrue. DPS queues were getting longer and longer. There was an extreme shortage of tanks. The experience itself was deemed "poor", or "not enjoyable" by many.

 

My last Queue for dps resulted in an estimated 1 hour wait.

 

There are ways to improve grouping, but a cross server LFg tool is not one of them.

[Eillack]

What is this "realm" of which you speak?

 

Do I sense a WoW refugee?

[Meldwyn]

It has been demonstrated to have a vastly negative effect on "community" as well as inspiring negative individual behavior. In short, it helped to ruin Wow by making it an impersonal shooter MMO. It paved the way for such issues as "trash talking", "insulting and rude behavior" with no repercussions for such behavior.

 

The greatest lie is that grouping will become easier, or faster and that is a fair trade-off. This is also untrue. DPS queues were getting longer and longer. There was an extreme shortage of tanks. The experience itself was deemed "poor", or "not enjoyable" by many.

 

My last Queue for dps resulted in an estimated 1 hour wait.

 

There are ways to improve grouping, but a cross server LFg tool is not one of them.

 

I had a completely opposite experience. As did my entire guild and family members. It opened older content up to us like never before (while leveling alts) and made dungeon runs enjoyable to say the least. Sorry it didn't work out for you.

[Blackardin]

I have made some great friends in various games via region chat, city chat etc. I have never made a friend stood around spamming 'lfg xxx' or from the resulting run.

 

Really? I've met the majority of people that I've had as friends through runs of various types. In fact, I would estimate that well up into the 90% bracket were from doing things together in game.

 

We have gained alot of guild applications and members from grouping with different people over a number of games.

 

I've never had that experience with a cross server LFG tool as the design prohibits such.

[Sbolla]

X-LFD will change your life FOREVBBER and the game wont be the same anymore!!

I hear ppl after 7 years in wow they stop cause of that... the game still felt new for them but then BAM x-lfd killed it...

 

 

P.s. Bw knows it's not the end of the world and probably would do more good than harm, they dont do it already just because they are light years from the technology required to implement it lol...

[DarthKhaos]

I understand there are inherit differences between the two in game play, but the queuing doesn't matter in that regard.

 

Why can't people spam LFG for PvP Huttball (or use the same crappy LFG tool that exists now for PvE), and once a group is formed, they have to go to the warzone and wait for another group to do the same on the opposing side (same faction or not).

 

Queuing for PvP is easy street, but for PvE its work. But if you want a LFG tool that does anything auto, you are called lazy, but PvP'ers aren't for the same functionality. Makes no sense.

 

Make PvP work for their matches as well... or, they should be called lazy.

Note people do form groups for PvP either with friends, guilds or even ask in General. However after the party is formed then what? We can't just go when the party is ready and start instantly can we? What time will the conflict start? Will there be opponents? How will the teams be matched up? This is what I was saying before. Because in a PvE environment you can start ANYTIME because the opponent is ALWAYS there. The flashpoint is set for a level range but it's ok for people to be "over powered" for the conflict.

 

You cannot treat them the same. Now with that said I wish they did not make WarZones cross realm for the same reason I do not want LFG to be cross realm.

[Blackardin]

I had a completely opposite experience. As did my entire guild and family members. It opened older content up to us like never before (while leveling alts) and made dungeon runs enjoyable to say the least. Sorry it didn't work out for you.

 

Your personal experience, or mine for that matter, are irrelevant. I was speaking of the overall experience.

 

However, you may have a point regarding older content. Again, my personal experience was that I did older content with that same group of friends, family, guildmates before the LFG and had a far greater experience over random players....but, again, personal experience of one individual is rather moot.

 

It is not needed for leveling in this game so that aspect would be moot also.

[Orizuru]

It has been demonstrated to have a vastly negative effect on "community" as well as inspiring negative individual behavior. In short, it helped to ruin Wow by making it an impersonal shooter MMO. It paved the way for such issues as "trash talking", "insulting and rude behavior" with no repercussions for such behavior.

 

The greatest lie is that grouping will become easier, or faster and that is a fair trade-off. This is also untrue. DPS queues were getting longer and longer. There was an extreme shortage of tanks. The experience itself was deemed "poor", or "not enjoyable" by many.

 

My last Queue for dps resulted in an estimated 1 hour wait.

 

There are ways to improve grouping, but a cross server LFg tool is not one of them.

 

While the LFG tool contributed to the community problems in WoW, you can't just say it created the problems. All of the problems that have been complained about and blamed on the LFG existed long before they had the LFG. The LFG just increased the average players exposure to the type of player that does not contribute to building a positive community experience for players.

 

It could also be argued that the very size of WoW contributed to this just as greatly as the LFG tool as well. There just isn't enough data to succinctly prove anything though. It's all just anecdotal evidence.

[Rackjaw]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Tools don't destroy communities the people in them do.

 

If you don't want to use the X-Server LFG tool, by all means go ahead and spam in trade chat like we're still in the dark ages of MMORPG game design.

[Meldwyn]

Note people do form groups for PvP either with friends, guilds or even ask in General. However after the party is formed then what? We can't just go when the party is ready and start instantly can we? What time will the conflict start? Will there be opponents? How will the teams be matched up? This is what I was saying before. Because in a PvE environment you can start ANYTIME because the opponent is ALWAYS there. The flashpoint is set for a level range but it's ok for people to be "over powered" for the conflict.

 

You cannot treat them the same. Now with that said I wish they did not make WarZones cross realm for the same reason I do not want LFG to be cross realm.

 

I appreciate that you are not being hypocritical in your stance on cross server tools. However, I still think they can implement a method by which PvP'ers have to work for their matches, much like PvE'ers have to work for their instances. Making one easy and the other more difficult to enjoy seems counter-intuitive.

 

Keep in mind that PvE still struggles with the "role" issue that PvP does not. While not ideal, you can run a PvP match with any combination of roles, whereas you are shoe-horned in to the "trinity" grouping for all PvE content post Esseles/BT. Thus, PvE can run the content once they form a group, as long as they can find the needed roles for said group. There in lies some of the difficulty that PvE'ers have with the current system (if you can call it that, I am not convinced).

[Meldwyn]

Your personal experience, or mine for that matter, are irrelevant. I was speaking of the overall experience.

 

However, you may have a point regarding older content. Again, my personal experience was that I did older content with that same group of friends, family, guildmates before the LFG and had a far greater experience over random players....but, again, personal experience of one individual is rather moot.

 

It is not needed for leveling in this game so that aspect would be moot also.

 

What I liked most about older content and the cross server LFG tool was that it matched you with other characters at the appropriate levels for the content. It was near impossible to pull a group of friends and family that were all at the same level and the appropriate roles for any given dungeon without this tool (all leveling alts at the same time). I didn't enjoy getting "run through" older dungeons (cheap). I liked experiencing them and struggling through them with others who were at that same level. I even enjoyed doing this with total strangers. I never found rude or obnoxious players while doing this. Max level heroics, maybe, on occasion, but it wasn't the norm.

 

Granted, my experience may not be applicable to all, but I am not aware of any thorough studies about the "collapse of communities" and the reasons for it out there. If you are, please provide link.

[DarthKhaos]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Tools don't destroy communities the people in them do.

 

If you don't want to use the X-Server LFG tool, by all means go ahead and spam in trade chat like we're still in the dark ages of MMORPG game design.

And the one song pony strikes again. No one is advocating a General/LFG Chat spam. Well I'm not. Geesh...

Edited March 20, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[DarthKhaos]

I appreciate that you are not being hypocritical in your stance on cross server tools. However, I still think they can implement a method by which PvP'ers have to work for their matches, much like PvE'ers have to work for their instances. Making one easy and the other more difficult to enjoy seems counter-intuitive.

 

Keep in mind that PvE still struggles with the "role" issue that PvP does not. While not ideal, you can run a PvP match with any combination of roles, whereas you are shoe-horned in to the "trinity" grouping for all PvE content post Esseles/BT. Thus, PvE can run the content once they form a group, as long as they can find the needed roles for said group. There in lies some of the difficulty that PvE'ers have with the current system (if you can call it that, I am not convinced).

Ok do you have a suggestion to how this would be implemented? Please note I'm only against a cross server system. I've never advocated the General Chat Spam hence me making the LFG guide to encourage people to use it so they do not have to:

1. Stand in fleet.
   
2. Spam General Chat with a LFG message.
   

However waiting for players to gather and then enter a warzone would not work because the opponent isn't always ready and waiting as in PvE. If you've ever queued and entered a match and only 3 or 4 people join. The others are afk and the timer is running down. There's no time out let's wait for more people the match is starting and you're SOL until people confirm placing that team at a disadvantage. Multiply that with having to wait for everyone to travel to a portal to get to their warzone.

 

Then there's the random mature of what warzone is selected. you can at least pick what flashpoint you wish to run. You can't for warzones. All these things come together why a LFWZ Spam (which I don't agree with for PvE OR PvP) wouldn't work.

 

I'm going to link this again for you to see. This was a concept someone proposed for a PvE LFG that isn't an automated system but would also avoid the whole General Chat Spam. NOTE this is just something a player put together and I found it to be a great piece of work. The thread is titled Group Mission Queue (Dungeon Finder) Pane Concept he even included an image of the Concept LFG Tool for us to see.

 

Even if you could go with the whole auto assign members and teleport you to the flashpoint but I don't wish it to be cross server.