ataborik Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Does overload saber and cauterize benefit from insight increased critical rating on force attacks or not? first hit from cauterize is physical but what about dot? and for overload saber I dont know ... can anybody advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveGarbage Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 That's a tricky question and one I'm not 100 percent certain on. I was investing my final point (Lvl 50) and put it into Insight. I was looking at the descriptions in the skills menu (hit P) to see what was force and what isn't. Obviously Force Sweep and Force Stasis benefit from it. I've got to check it again but if I'm remembering correctly: I believe that Overload Saber in that menu is classified as "Force." However, I suspect both of the damages from Cauterize and Overload Saber tick as either energy or elemental and not as Force damage - unlike Force Stasis and Force Sweep. Here's probably the best way to find out. Find some easy mobs and do the following: - Use Force Stasis and watch what COLOR the damage popup displays as. - Then use Overload Saber and hit the enemy with a Strike and watch the color of the ticks. - Try the same with Cauterize. I believe this game displays different colors for different types of damage, but I can't remember what are what, although I know I've seen white numbers and yellow numbers (along with the obvious green for healing and red for player damage) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blarse Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 That's a tricky question and one I'm not 100 percent certain on. I was investing my final point (Lvl 50) and put it into Insight. I was looking at the descriptions in the skills menu (hit P) to see what was force and what isn't. Obviously Force Sweep and Force Stasis benefit from it. I've got to check it again but if I'm remembering correctly: I believe that Overload Saber in that menu is classified as "Force." However, I suspect both of the damages from Cauterize and Overload Saber tick as either energy or elemental and not as Force damage - unlike Force Stasis and Force Sweep. Here's probably the best way to find out. Find some easy mobs and do the following: - Use Force Stasis and watch what COLOR the damage popup displays as. - Then use Overload Saber and hit the enemy with a Strike and watch the color of the ticks. - Try the same with Cauterize. I believe this game displays different colors for different types of damage, but I can't remember what are what, although I know I've seen white numbers and yellow numbers (along with the obvious green for healing and red for player damage) DoT ticks are yellow damage (the same color as force attacks). This leads me to believe they do benefit from insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiroRX Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) They do benefit from it. I'd only take it in pve though, points spread to thin for pvp builds. Our dots are actually quite the odd business. For the purposes of damage calculation, they seem to be treated as Force attacks, but they debuff they place on people is physical. Edited February 20, 2012 by ShiroRX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FobManX Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Until combat logs are available and people can test it, nobody can be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiroRX Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) Until combat logs are available and people can test it, nobody can be sure. Untrue, torhead datamining lists them for damage calculations as Force in-game. Insight does affect it. I've found the crit rate they add though to be marginally beneficial in pvp when weighed against other utility talents. It's a pve thang. To elaborate further.... Overload Saber is more cut and dry, its a buff we place on ourselves and directly applies a Force dot stack(s) upon melee hit(s). Cauterize is where people get confused; its initial application hit is a physical attack, but the dot component is Force. Edited February 20, 2012 by ShiroRX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhuntly Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Does overload saber and cauterize benefit from insight increased critical rating on force attacks or not? first hit from cauterize is physical but what about dot? and for overload saber I dont know ... can anybody advice? they do. Go to your abilities tab and it tells you which type of damage abilities do. The initial damage is melee but the dot is force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FobManX Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Untrue, torhead datamining lists them for damage calculations as Force in-game. Insight does affect it. I've found the crit rate they add though to be marginally beneficial in pvp when weighed against other utility talents. It's a pve thang. To elaborate further.... Overload Saber is more cut and dry, its a buff we place on ourselves and directly applies a Force dot stack(s) upon melee hit(s). Cauterize is where people get confused; its initial application hit is a physical attack, but the dot component is Force. I stand corrected. I'm still not convinced that talent is worth it for Watchman though. Our dots crit often enough as it is, but I guess if you have a ton of extra accuracy(which you will in high end Rakata gear)sacrificing accuracy to get a little more crit is not a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizoka Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 they are effected but its a trash talent. Your bleeds in the watchmen tree are uped 15% for 5 points and insight does 6% for 3 points... the value of the talent is less then half... you better off getting accuracy in the combat tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhuntly Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 It is def for floater skill points. I only put 2/3 in it but I also stack crit surge because I enjoy the 75k healing medal so the 4% crit is a lot more useful to me than accuracy (the attribute I try to diminish) but I guess we all have our own styles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ataborik Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 If it will work I will definitely take it. More crit = more healing, more focus, more damage (+6% is +3% of damage or more with higher surge rating) Accuracy = 3% to melee attacks which is 3% more damage :-) (I think that force attacks have 100% accuracy so i see no reason for go over 100% I would say that for watchman it should be valuable ... because the spec is based on criticals ... (of couse most of the time we will use zen ...) The problem is that from bonus to force attacks will benefit probably less skills than from accuracy so its hard to decide... or put the points somewhere else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selectah Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 It works. Problem is, that crit is hard capped at 50% as far as i know (no beeing sure without developer statements though). So if you are about 35% crit raidbuffed (which you should) it doesn`t do you any good any more (cause of the 15% burn crit on juyo). Its far more valuable for combat imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therealkoop Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Can anyone confirm the 50% hardcap? Im sitting at about 30% crit raidbuffed in pvp. with juyo im closing steady on that cap in just centurion gear. (for bleeds) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal-Sharran Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Contrary to my sig, in this I'm not 100%. However, our burns do Elemental damage, which is neither Kinetic or Energy. Blade Storm, Force Sweep, Force Exhaustion and Force Stasis (the obvious 'Force' attacks) all deal Kinetic damage. Hell, Blade Storm and Force Sweep specify 'Force' as the source of the attack. OS and Cauterize both fail to list the Force in their tooltips, which leads me to believe they would not be included under the talent Insight. Besides, without a damage meter, determining a difference of 6% crit on your burns would be virtually impossible. The whole concept of OS, to me, feels like the Jedi purposefully pulls more power from the power source of their lightsaber, not that they 'imbue' their sabers with more power from the Force. That just doesn't jive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizoka Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Can anyone confirm the 50% hardcap? Im sitting at about 30% crit raidbuffed in pvp. with juyo im closing steady on that cap in just centurion gear. (for bleeds) anything over 30% is a waste.. power is THE BEST STAT for all sentinels past 25% crit as far as damsge increase per point. Power has no DR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blarse Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 anything over 30% is a waste.. power is THE BEST STAT for all sentinels past 25% crit as far as damsge increase per point. Power has no DR. As far as stacking crit rating goes, yes. We're talking about talents that raise crit chance which are not affected by DR. I don't think that 50% hardcap is true, otherwise I need to yell at Bioware about Operative/Scoundrel traits and set bonuses (Back Stab/Back Blast can easily have over 65% crit with talents and 2 piece PvE set bonus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psybin Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 It is true, or in roughly that region. You can see the effect if you plot graphs. But your point that DR ONLY happens to crit (and surge) from points is right. It does NOT effect crit and crit damage obtained from talents and set bonuses. So "if" you capped your crit (assuming the 50% cap is right), as watchman you're burns would effectively have 65% crit chance with full Juyo stacks. Similarly with surge, the cap now seems to be roughly an extra 50%. Making 100% total, which is in fact 130% including various talents. Like your burns in watchman, or your blade rush/storm, ataru in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizoka Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 As far as stacking crit rating goes, yes. We're talking about talents that raise crit chance which are not affected by DR. I don't think that 50% hardcap is true, otherwise I need to yell at Bioware about Operative/Scoundrel traits and set bonuses (Back Stab/Back Blast can easily have over 65% crit with talents and 2 piece PvE set bonus) i'm not talking a DR ith crit rating i'm talking crit itself. Crit itself is a diminishing stat the more you have the more you need to see an increase. Think of bucket of hot wings, that first hot wing is great, now you are at wing 5 and they are still ok, then wing 10 you are like meh, then wing 15 you are over it. crit at the start is awesome, but the more you have the less impressive it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blarse Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 i'm not talking a DR ith crit rating i'm talking crit itself. Crit itself is a diminishing stat the more you have the more you need to see an increase. Think of bucket of hot wings, that first hot wing is great, now you are at wing 5 and they are still ok, then wing 10 you are like meh, then wing 15 you are over it. crit at the start is awesome, but the more you have the less impressive it is. While the % increase from say 6% to 12% crit is larger than the increase from 30% to 36%, it's still 6% more crit. Since bleeds have 30% free surge rating, you want them to crit as much as possible. Since this is discussion of a talent and not gear, do not say that power is better. You can still stack plenty of power if you have this talent or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizoka Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 While the % increase from say 6% to 12% crit is larger than the increase from 30% to 36%, it's still 6% more crit. Since bleeds have 30% free surge rating, you want them to crit as much as possible. Since this is discussion of a talent and not gear, do not say that power is better. You can still stack plenty of power if you have this talent or not. but that means you lose something else, typically the hit from the combat tree... that means you have to gear for more hit, thus can get less power thus lowering overall damage. remember its not just what you gain with talents its what you lose by not taking something else, you always want to get the best gain out of every point, Insight is never the best gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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