varrangian Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Money for gifts, my friend, money for gifts. I play a Lightside SI, my first companion... I think he hates me... I understand and my BH actually has Underworld trading as a skill, so I get a number of gifts that way, but this is just one more obstacle in the path of a "grey" character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intarabus Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I was thinking, what about that old guy in the Wookie-world Forest in KOTOR? He was sorta neutral I guess? He left the order of feeling guilty. However, if you play dark side ending, he clearly takes a stand for the light side. I also do not think he has a neutral alignment, but he just is not content with the jedi order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intarabus Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Exactly! Imagine a grey sentinel or maurader with a red and a blue saber in his hands... only possible to the grey jedi who has neither achieved Dark I or Light I. Also, Revan is a perfect example of a Grey Jedi. Its rare... but its fun to play something other than LAWFUL GOOD, CHAOTIC GOOD, or LAWFUL EVIL, CHAOTIC EVIL... adding neutrality to the game will allow us old pen/paper D&D veterans to play a LAWFUL NEUTRAL, TRUE NEUTRAL, and a CHAOTIC NEUTRAL player and not be penalised by that choice. Looking forward to neutrality when it comes. Hm... I think just because of switching sides, Revan was not really grey. At the end of the game you must choose for light or dark side, regardless what happens before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intarabus Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Is this not the right course of thinking? Yes - categorization problem, and former star wars games dealt different with it. Dark Forces II: you do bad stuff, you become darkside at one certain event. KOTOR, Jedi Academy: at a certain point in the game you have to decide KOTOR II: more dynamic, it was more open in the alignment scheme any way and you could in a way be neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varrangian Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Hm... I think just because of switching sides, Revan was not really grey. At the end of the game you must choose for light or dark side, regardless what happens before. But isn't that in and of itself very neutral? I mean if you strictly adhered to one tenant you would not be neutral, but if you could weigh your options especially for bigger decisions, that implies a more, neutral approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intarabus Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 If you're flipflopping from light side to dark side, that doesn't make you a Grey Jedi, that makes you...uh. I think, Anakin is a bit like that - until he is so dark that he turns sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varrangian Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 One other thing to note, you all do realize this isn't just a Jedi/Sith issue right? There is gear sold for dark and light that is specific to the other classes Agent, Smuggler, Trooper and Bounty Hunter. Most of which from an RP stand point at least are more likely to be neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intarabus Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 But isn't that in and of itself very neutral? I mean if you strictly adhered to one tenant you would not be neutral, but if you could weigh your options especially for bigger decisions, that implies a more, neutral approach. It is more like you can't affect the outcome of the game by playing neutral, because there is a light and a dark side ending. Neutral would mean f.example, you fight and kill Malak because it is good for the republic, but you also do not spare Bastila (because maybe she did some bad things already or you just can't forgive) and don't let the republic blow off the Star Forge, because it may come handy for later battles. Thats just one example... KOTOR 2 is more open in this, I think. I never played it and tried to kill one of the Jedi Masters while letting another one live, but I think, its possible, isn't it? Anyway, here is the difference, that the end is for all alignments very similar. But the factual penalty for not being light or dark was already in both KOTOR games I think . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intarabus Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 One other thing to note, you all do realize this isn't just a Jedi/Sith issue right? There is gear sold for dark and light that is specific to the other classes Agent, Smuggler, Trooper and Bounty Hunter. Most of which from an RP stand point at least are more likely to be neutral. By now, I did not play non-force-characters. But a dark side/light side-alignment does not really fit to them in terms of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal_pjv Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) This is tricky. I have allso tendency of playing "grey" characters. I don't try to do it, but eventually things just turn up so that my alligment is more or less grey... Sometimes it is 1/3 dark 2/3 light and sometimes 2/3 dark 1/3 light and everything between those two "extremes" I can see 3 possible solutions 1) grey items and grey story path (calculate total dark and light points together) 2) a little bit of both... You can wear both light and dark side items, but not the absolutely extremes so you could get level 4 dark and level 1 light items or opposite dependin on your light dark totals or something betveen them (so the total level would be 5 at maximum (most balanced option without tweaks...)) 3) Only absolutes (only 100% dark or 100% good) so one desision can chance you from pure dark to pure light... Like Darth vader did at the end of movie) I don't like this option much... It does not make a lot of sence. I thin personally IMHO that Darth Vader was on the edge (not totally evil any more 4500 ligh 5500 dark) and was pushed from darknes to the light (6000 ligh 4000 dark by the influence of Luke) But even that does not make much sense IMHO 4) Total balance (5000/5000) would allow level 5 grey items, 1000 light and 9000 dark would allow level 1 light items, level 1, grey items and level 4 dark items, 3000 light 7000 dark woul allow level 2 light side items, level 3 grey items and level 3 dark side items, 4001 light side and 5999 dark side woul allow level 2 light side, level 4 grey side and level 2 dark side items... or something similarIt would reguire some balancing though. (And yes I can't calculate ;-) Edited January 25, 2012 by Hannibal_pjv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matais Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Being neutral isn't its own thing. Its doing both and being fine with it and not being too attached to either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliapis Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 There have been MANY threads (largely from the RP community) hoping for Grey-alignment gear vendors that would allow players to make light and dark side choices throughout the game with the intent on keeping their LS/DS net gain around 0 = Grey. Many suggestions about the mechanics have been offered and BioWare is aware of the desire for this and they have promised that neutrality will be supported eventually. Personally, I am one of those "Grey Jedi" and even now I am balancing my points, choosing dark side when it fits me and light side at other times and I am currently at -500 dark +450 Light = -50 Dark overall. When neutrality is finally introduced and we start seeing modable armor with a Grey II or Grey III requirement, I should be perfectly positioned to jump into that armor =) Many of us don't like being totally amoral or righteously oblivious to everything around them and soon there will be something to reward our efforts at keeping the balance within the Force (which by the way is MUCH harder to do than simply choosing the red triangle or the white star at every crossroad) Final point to those who hate the neutral route (there is a loud voice out there as well) Being grey is NOT about avoiding choices or taking the path of least resistence, it is about taking light side / dark side points at EVERY choice and striking a balance between our noble and ignoble actions. See you all in game! There cannot be ranks in "Grey" or "Neutral" with the current system. the only thing that will keep things sane is to allow a balance of 500 pts points in favor of either light or dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliapis Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 This is tricky. I have allso tendency of playing "grey" characters. I don't try to do it, but eventually things just turn up so that my alligment is more or less grey... Sometimes it is 1/3 dark 2/3 light and sometimes 2/3 dark 1/3 light and everything between those two "extremes" I can see 3 possible solutions 1) grey items and grey story path (calculate total dark and light points together) 2) a little bit of both... You can wear both light and dark side items, but not the absolutely extremes so you could get level 4 dark and level 1 light items or opposite dependin on your light dark totals or something betveen them (so the total level would be 5 at maximum (most balanced option without tweaks...)) 3) Only absolutes (only 100% dark or 100% good) so one desision can chance you from pure dark to pure light... Like Darth vader did at the end of movie) I don't like this option much... It does not make a lot of sence. I thin personally IMHO that Darth Vader was on the edge (not totally evil any more 4500 ligh 5500 dark) and was pushed from darknes to the light (6000 ligh 4000 dark by the influence of Luke) But even that does not make much sense IMHO 4) Total balance (5000/5000) would allow level 5 grey items, 1000 light and 9000 dark would allow level 1 light items, level 1, grey items and level 4 dark items, 3000 light 7000 dark woul allow level 2 light side items, level 3 grey items and level 3 dark side items, 4001 light side and 5999 dark side woul allow level 2 light side, level 4 grey side and level 2 dark side items... or something similar It would reguire some balancing though. (And yes I can't calculate ;-) The game atm offers 10k pts on each direction starting from the middle. Or 20k pts starting from either extreme end to the other. You cannot have 10k on each side, since when you make choises that add to one side, they subtract from the other. Its logical. Whats not logical is that even when you are 10K and u draw some pts of the other side, you actually lose your prestige status (either Dark5 or Light5), you can see how much you are currently are and you can also see how much pts of each minority of side you just collected. The wierd thing is that another number, stating you are still 10k dark So if you make a choise from Dark5 to award you 150pts in light, you end up like this Darkside: 9580 DS IV ------------------ Darkside: 10000 Lightside: 150. Which makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raelimar Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) It's an interesting question. In my opinion, the Imperial Agent does have a grey ending - it's the one that involves you keeping the Black Codex for yourself, rather than giving it to the Republic (Light Side) or the Empire (Dark Side). In terms of game mechanics, however, it's considered a Light Side ending. I'd like to see more support for a grey path, in the future. Maybe not "grey choices" and "grey points", but at the very least, neutral-specific titles and gear. Edited January 27, 2012 by raelimar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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