Kolto Shell

[GuyTallman]

Anyone else find this skill more than a little annoying with regards to aggro?

 

Tank dives in, starts pulling aggro. Gets hit, procs heal. Everything that he hasn't hit with an ability then B-lines to you. Due to the combination of global cooldowns and spread out mobs, every damn pull you have several mobs beating on you from the get go without you even using an active skill.

 

I find myself casting it on myself, just to remove it from the tank, before pulls then casting mid ways through a fight. Though, the fact that it sets off the GCD and that it is intended as a pre-fight buff somewhat eliminates the novelty of the skill.

 

Anyone else think that the threat should be redirected, and counted as the tank healing himself? Or perhaps just removed. I hate getting attacked for a buff that I placed on a character several minutes ago, it just doesn't seem to jive with the idea behind the aggro system.

 

Mobs view someone as threatening because they see a particular action and react. In this case the action took place long ago, out of their observance, yet they react to it none the less.

 

tl;dr

Kolto Shell is a hassle to use neutralizing its novelty as a pre fight buff.

[SnugglePrime]

I don't have that issue.

[Schaede]

I am not sure what you mean you don't have that issue. Do you not use the shell pre-pull on trash mobs? Take any fight where 3 adds run/jump in after the tank initiates combat and you will find they run in and immediately target you. I simply don't use the ability on pulls anymore and just wrap it in as one of the "free" abilities in the rotation. Sucks when I forget to transfer it to myself between pulls though.

[Fizbanic]

Never had this issue at all.

 

I always have it on the tank and at the same time while they are running to pull I am shooting them with rapid shots and still I don't pull aggro.

 

Sorry can't help no idea on what is going on there.

[DomingoDarkrage]

Yea, if you keep kolto on the tank and he doesn't quickly get aggro from all the mobs, you may take a shot or two. If you have a bad tank, you will take many shots. Normally, the tanks are good and scoop aggro (or we fire off the aggro-reducing flares) and everything is fine.

 

However, when i get stuck with a bad tank, I just keep Kolto shell on myself. I cant heal the tank if I'm dead before he is.

 

Kolto shell promotes good tanking, something we (healers) cannot do much about.

[Strifegambit]

I must agree i have had many instances where this happens from mobs appearing 2 seconds after the initial pull, even more frustrating when a tank doesnt let you cc a single mob out of 10 and u get like 7 of them wailing on u in the first 3 seconds

[Cheesenugget]

I had the same issue in EV HM. The turrets at the entrance start attacking you as soon as the tank jumps in. I always forget about that. So annoying...

[BlownSi]

Yes, KS procs do send hate your way as a healer. I have been keeping KS off the tank until he jumps in and gets aggro. After about 2-3 seconds I will throw it on him. In my opinion KS procs should not generate hate towards me unless it is on me and I take a few shots. Has anyone seen any word from BW whether or not it is working as intended?

[DomingoDarkrage]

If it is going to use our healing stats, then it should be giving aggro to us. It isn't any different than if we landed a heal on the tank right at engagement. Using it requires a strategy- do you put it on the tank before the fight and figure out what to do if you get aggro (los is easy enough) or wait until after tank established aggro and you toss kolto shell in (it initiates GCD, so this could be a problem if the fight starts hairy).

[lijahrobinson]

I have had this issue too. what i do is keep it on myself in a situation where alot of adds spawn and not have it on the tank at the beginning of the battle. I drop it on them somwhere around the 5 sec mark and have had no issues with this strategy.

[Yazule]

Yes, KS procs do send hate your way as a healer. I have been keeping KS off the tank until he jumps in and gets aggro. After about 2-3 seconds I will throw it on him. In my opinion KS procs should not generate hate towards me unless it is on me and I take a few shots. Has anyone seen any word from BW whether or not it is working as intended?

 

heals need to generate hate, some people have been arguing amongst my group that the shield pre-generates hate, if that is true then it should be fixed...

 

mostly the OP has bad tanks that are single target taunting.

[iceninenine]

The fact that people didn't know KS generates threat really surprises me. Healing generates threat. KS is a heal.

 

As for whether it's working as intended, I'd have to argue that it is, primarily due to the pro tip that I will provide you below, free of charge.

 

Pro Tip: CHAFF FLARE

[GuyTallman]

It isn't that I didn't know that it generated threat, I quite clearly state in the op that I am rather acutely aware of this.

 

My point was, something that I cast and sits on someone for 5 minutes feels like a buff, and not a heal. The point then being that direct heals SHOULD generate aggro but BUFFS should not. Dunno, to me it almost feels as if they decided to have the extra damage generated by the boost to stats from an inquisitors buff generate aggro directed at the inquisitor.

 

In my head it just seems like it should be instant. I use an ability and it either generates aggro on use or it does not. Not, I use an ability, I walk around the house, start a load of laundry, make myself a drink, sit back down, start a pull, woah aggro!

 

There seems to be a disconnect with this skill in particular that just isn't there for others.

[SheepishOne]

If it is going to use our healing stats, then it should be giving aggro to us. It isn't any different than if we landed a heal on the tank right at engagement. Using it requires a strategy- do you put it on the tank before the fight and figure out what to do if you get aggro (los is easy enough) or wait until after tank established aggro and you toss kolto shell in (it initiates GCD, so this could be a problem if the fight starts hairy).

 

This is straight up bull on a realistic level. I fully understand the theoretical argument from a "it's healing so it should be on the agro table" standpoint, but its counterpart (shield) suffers none of the drawbacks, uses the main healing stat (+heal x 327% + 1127), and has very solid pros in addition. Static Barrier guarantees optimal output, gives it instantly, doesn't suffer overhealing, isn't reliant on crits, is a base skill, has no target limit, can be effectively used more often on the same target, has variants of talents for healing and DPS, and it has no aggro generation for all of the damage it mitigates. All for the price of having it cost force in a very easily managed & traditional power scheme.

 

The heal from KS is very nice given time. Especially when you consider it's a "free" heal. I will consider it a win as long as it remains broken. It's STILL able to heal twice as fast as intended, as it unintentionally and uncontrollably exploits the same mechanic that double resurgence exploiters (Sorc/Sage) have been using to get x2 procs. This often lets it get better numbers than one barrier cast--if they cast two barriers within 15-18 seconds it's game over for BH apologists.

Edited February 23, 2012 by SheepishOne

[DomingoDarkrage]

I'm not a sorc, but I've been told that it does generate aggro when it absorbs damage. Both skills have their place, and are superior in certain areas to the other skill. Kolto shell is excellent for clearing trash and fighting bosses. Static barrier is great for eating Soa's lightning balls (dps spikes), running through huttball fire, and becoming immortal for a short period of time. With kolto shell being so useful for only 1 talent point spent into it, rather than the number you can put into static barrier (upwards of 6 points while only 4 are important).

[GuyTallman]

I can confirm that shield does not generate aggro from reductions. Not like we didn't already know mercs were 2nd fiddle to sorcs. Again, imo it would work better if it operated the same as the sorcs shield and didn't generate aggro.

[oredith]

the people who say "i have never had this problem", or "i don't know what you're talking about".

 

either:

 

1. you play mostly with a BH tank, or

2. you mostly raid ops with multiple tanks.

 

if you don't believe that this is a problem, go and do a false emp run with a Jugg, and put the kolto shell on the tank before he runs in to engage some of those 6+ pulls. I guarantee you'll see the problem then.

Edited February 24, 2012 by oredith

[Wintor]

the people who say "i have never had this problem", or "i don't know what you're talking about".

 

either:

 

1. you play mostly with a BH tank, or

2. you mostly raid ops with multiple tanks.

 

if you don't believe that this is a problem, go and do a false emp run with a Jugg, and put the kolto shell on the tank before he runs in to engage some of those 6+ pulls. I guarantee you'll see the problem then.

 

Ya, I was wondering how how any merc healer couldn't have experienced this. If you ever run with a Jug tank, you're going to see it, even if it's only for a moment before they get the mob back.

 

Anyway, the static barrier comparison is interesting. One more reason to hurry up and level my Sorc and switch my already geared merc to dps instead.

[oredith]

One more reason to hurry up and level my Sorc and switch my already geared merc to dps instead.

 

it's funny you mention that. I have a sorc "alt" that's mid-30s now that I intend to make my real healer, and the OTHER merc healer in the guild has the exact same thing.

 

i wonder how many merc bodyguards have gone to Sorc healer, now that they've experienced how gimped BH is compared to sorc (note that I'm not saying BH healing is broken, but rather, i'm saying that Sorc healing is just so much BETTER).

[Wintor]

it's funny you mention that. I have a sorc "alt" that's mid-30s now that I intend to make my real healer, and the OTHER merc healer in the guild has the exact same thing.

 

i wonder how many merc bodyguards have gone to Sorc healer, now that they've experienced how gimped BH is compared to sorc (note that I'm not saying BH healing is broken, but rather, i'm saying that Sorc healing is just so much BETTER).

 

100% agree. I actually really enjoy healing on my BH just because the mechanics themselves are different enough from my healers in the game that shall not be mentioned. And I'm certainly able to heal well enough on my BH through end game so far.

 

However, even at a relatively low level, I can already see the healing power gap between my sorc alt and my BH. Hopefully 1.2 will get the two classes a bit closer in ability. I won't even care if the BH is still a little gimped compared to the sorc, just because he's fun to play. The gap now is just too much to ignore.

[DomingoDarkrage]

If you want your heavy armor, high hitpoint mercenary healer to do the same amount of healing as a light armor, low hitpoint sorcerer, thats not going to happen. There are reasons we choose one character class over the other. Sorcs might have higher healing output, but they can drop fast. Op's get stealth and more instant-heals. Mercs stand still and don't die.

 

Though for me, I chose Merc because they get 2 guns.

[oredith]

If you want your heavy armor, high hitpoint mercenary healer to do the same amount of healing as a light armor, low hitpoint sorcerer,

have you actually compared the HP difference between 2 equal tier geared sorc and bh?

 

by "low hitpoint", i can only imagine you to mean "does not have the HP buff"?..

[stposiedon]

If you want your heavy armor, high hitpoint mercenary healer to do the same amount of healing as a light armor, low hitpoint sorcerer, thats not going to happen. There are reasons we choose one character class over the other. Sorcs might have higher healing output, but they can drop fast. Op's get stealth and more instant-heals. Mercs stand still and don't die.

 

Though for me, I chose Merc because they get 2 guns.

 

 

or the fact that you have to pump in 5k damage to break that stupid shield of theirs =). theres a reason why sorc heals are the most sought after healers in the game. And in pve ops, the heals arent the ones being whacked on. armor isnt the major factor for healers, healing output is. id sacrifice 50% of my armor for 10% healing output in a heartbeat for pve

[GuyTallman]

or the fact that you have to pump in 5k damage to break that stupid shield of theirs =). theres a reason why sorc heals are the most sought after healers in the game. And in pve ops, the heals arent the ones being whacked on. armor isnt the major factor for healers, healing output is. id sacrifice 50% of my armor for 10% healing output in a heartbeat for pve

 

Exactly, and that isn't even taking into account the vastly superior control.

 

You know what is better than reducing damage taken? Not taking damage at all. Sorc has a superior skillset when it comes to crowd control.

 

So then why is our mirror skill to their shield inferior, if they are superior everywhere else where it counts? Not asking for us to be better, just asking for it to be commensurate. Kolto shield's heals, like a sorc's damage reduction shield proc, should not generate aggro.

[Azkit]

The fact that people didn't know KS generates threat really surprises me. Healing generates threat. KS is a heal.

 

As for whether it's working as intended, I'd have to argue that it is, primarily due to the pro tip that I will provide you below, free of charge.

 

Pro Tip: CHAFF FLARE

 

Umm.. if you gain 400 threat on a mob, Chaff Flare will reduce the threat to 300. If the tank has 0 threat, the mobs are still on you.

 

Chaff Flare is supposed to reduce threat by 25%, but last I heard, it's currently bugged and only reduces threat by 0.25% (meaning 400 threat -> 399 threat).

 

In either case, the OP just needs to run with better tanks. I only noticed gaining aggro for a moment due to this thread. The tanks usually pick the mobs up before they even hit me.