Organikal Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Buddy... You're looking WAY TOO deeply into this. THIS ISN'T THE FINAL DRAFT. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU. It's the idea behind it all... Get that through your head and don't break down everything that he said in the original post. #'s will be off. ^ This... And I did say the numbers were likely off in the OP. The idea though is to make it feel like an accomplishment when you get gear and not feel like RNG. It should take the "average" players 7-8 weeks to get all the gear (minus the chest and MH in my opinion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alement Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Buddy... You're looking WAY TOO deeply into this. THIS ISN'T THE FINAL DRAFT. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU. It's the idea behind it all... Get that through your head and don't break down everything that he said in the original post. #'s will be off. Buddy, I said the idea was good but the numbers were whack. He defended them. I pointed out how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goxwerd Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 could you imagine how teams will be QQing and all the selfishness of people trying to get their "achievements" for gear?? You can't have things like this because when the carrot on the stick is gear people will do w/e it takes to exploit it the fastest(and usually the fastest way is bypassing the intended design like what we see in games already). Warzones will just be a bunch of ballhogs, bomb hogs, medal farming, aoe spamming to get their gear.. You get a toot for trying to fix the issue but that isn't the solution. Imo in order to get gear you CANNOT have a very narrow way to get it like TOR has done. It turns into a giant cluster as we see with dailies, they are just people farming @ 2fps or leaving until they get a win then stopping. Besides the fact that having dailies being your sole place for BM drops shows BW doesn't want us to pvp they just want to keep us on the hook until the next tier of gear, Doing those dailies isn't pvp its just people doing w/e it takes to get the quest done.. BW failed in there not being a true "pvp" currency. The com system should be reworked into a gamewide pvp currency so where ever you gain valor you gain pvp currency(can make it so you get bonus for doing objectives), Break up the currency so if you are in an OP you do not get as much as you are solo or in a 4 man. This should help break up the zerg vs zerg. Also dump the dailies in Ilum. If anything make the dailies not player killing related. Ilum needs to be a place to go pvp not to just zerg down a daily/weekly. k this turned into a rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kentontudor Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Buddy, I said the idea was good but the numbers were whack. He defended them. I pointed out how. But still, why are you looking for an argument in a topic that clearly isn't meant for that. This topic is meant to fix the current broken Battlemaster system. It's not meant for guys to come in and tell them that they can't add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goxwerd Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) How is it too much work? PvE players spend 3+ hours raiding 3-4 times a week for 2-3 months in a row to all obtain their max level gear. That's on average 144 game hours for 3 months. All but 2 of the achievements listed are obtainable in 140ish game hours minus the chest and weapon which would be items that let the dedicated players stand out. rofl not in this game they do not... The pve is easy as crap in this game too. Anyways your idea will not work in the real world. Sorry Ok so last night i played from 5pm to 12am with queue time and games i played 16ish matches, since my server is special we won 2 all night. So 16 matches in 6 hours i had some afk time. Even lets assume i won 50percent of them. So that is one win every 1.3 hours of time in game. So even if i win half which many many sides do not that is over 300 hours of time in game. So about 13 DAYS of time /played to get a chest piece assuming 50/50 win. Not even touching on all the people hogging and playing selfishly to get their objectives. That is obsurd even if the gear was another tier above BM. Not a 1percent upgrade. This entire thread is flawed. Edited February 17, 2012 by goxwerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organikal Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 could you imagine how teams will be QQing and all the selfishness of people trying to get their "achievements" for gear?? Which ones? We have already eliminated the huttball score one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da_krall Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) The theory behind this is to prevent warzone quitters that are only concerned with their daily wins while maintaining a clear goal for Valor 60 players. There have been lots of linear suggestions of "1 BM comm per bag and up the price of gear by 4" but that system is worse than the current one in my opinion. I have picked the numbers somewhat stragically so that gear will be accumulated upon reaching a goal and reaching more than one goal on any specific day would be rare. The idea is that you have a clear goal and can work towards a piece of gear, rather than hoping on the RNG gods every day. These achievements and tracking mechanisms only unlock at Valor Rank 60. They reset to 0 after completion to allow a secondary spec gear set. Note: these numbers are examples and most likely need adjustments. Achievements award a token for said piece of gear. This would also require warzone specific queues. To earn the Ear-Piece: Earn 200 medals in the Civil War To earn an Implant: Earn 200 medals in Huttball To earn an Implant: Earn 200 medals in Voidstar To earn the bracers: Earn an accumulated 800 medals in any warzone. To earn a Relic: Successfully capture 30 turrets in the Civil War To earn a Relic: Collect 80,000 valor points from Ilum while standing in a controlled point. To earn the Leg Armor: Successfully score 100 times in Huttball To earn the Belt: Successfully plant or defuse 20 bombs in Voidstar To earn the Gloves: Successfully win 20 Huttball games from being behind by at least 2 scores. To earn the Boots: Successfully win 80 Voidstar games by allowing the opponent to score less than 2 points. To earn the Off-Hand: Successfully win 55 Civil War games by a score of over 400 points To earn the Helm: Collect 70,000 valor points from Ilum while standing in a non-controlled point. To earn the Chest-piece: Successfully win 500 warzones. At least 100 wins must come from each warzone and will have their own counters. To earn the Main Hand Weapon: Deal 280,000,000 damage to enemy targets or heal a friendly targets for 160,000,000 during warzone combat. This is simply an idea that will give Battlemasters goals to reach and aim for rather than RNG bags to cry about. The number likely need to be adjusted but this type of system gives the PvPer clear goals to their gear while not providing linear progression that results in every player getting the same gear on the same day. Personally i think anything like gear rewarded by achievements is a terrible idea. People wont try to win warzones tehy will farm achivements. To earn the Ear-Piece: Earn 200 medals in the Civil War To earn an Implant: Earn 200 medals in Huttball To earn an Implant: Earn 200 medals in Voidstar To earn the bracers: Earn an accumulated 800 medals in any warzone. People will play for medals not the win To earn a Relic: Successfully capture 30 turrets in the Civil War People will let teh opps capture turrets so they can capture them back + everyone will run to the left turret first in the hope of being the first their to click it. To earn the Belt: Successfully plant or defuse 20 bombs in Voidstar people will bomb trade in a similar way to kill trades in ilum. etc etc etc Theres only really two in your list that wouldnt be exploit to **** and back, overall achivements is a really bad idea as people will start to play for achievements not the win. Thats not to say that biowares current idea is good - removing the dailies seems like a really bad idea but would like to see what system theyreplace it with (though it will probably be one that rewards not trying to win) Edited February 17, 2012 by da_krall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organikal Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Personally i think anything like gear rewarded by achievements is a terrible idea. People wont try to win warzones tehy will farm achivements. To earn the Ear-Piece: Earn 200 medals in the Civil War To earn an Implant: Earn 200 medals in Huttball To earn an Implant: Earn 200 medals in Voidstar To earn the bracers: Earn an accumulated 800 medals in any warzone. People will play for medals not the win How is it any different now? And 200 medals is like 10-15 games. Non issue. To earn a Relic: Successfully capture 30 turrets in the Civil War People will let teh opps capture turrets so they can capture them back + everyone will run to the left turret first in the hope of being the first their to click it. Agree, but zone specific achievements will need to be in place. To earn the Belt: Successfully plant or defuse 20 bombs in Voidstar people will bomb trade in a similar way to kill trades in ilum. There is no way that will happen. It would effect the results from other achievements and make them longer. And if they do trade, it's 1 piece of gear. Theres only really two in your list that wouldnt be exploit to **** and back, overall achivements is a really bad idea as people will start to play for achievements not the win. Thats not to say that biowares current idea is good - removing the dailies seems like a really bad idea but would like to see what system theyreplace it with (though it will probably be one that rewards not trying to win) All the achievements have a DIRECT effect on the outcome. I don't think it's such a bad idea. Edited February 17, 2012 by Organikal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goxwerd Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 How is it any different now? And 200 medals is like 10-15 games. Non issue. Agree, but zone specific achievements will need to be in place. There is no way that will happen. It would effect the results from other achievements and make them longer. And if they do trade, it's 1 piece of gear. All the achievements have a DIRECT effect on the outcome. I don't think it's such a bad idea. Rofl do you even play @ 50? Who averages 20 medals a warzone? Because its only 10 games to get 200 medals... cmon What happens when all you need is your gloves? You have to try to find a way to let the other team score 2x twice then come back and win? What about the bombs? Everyone will be trying to set the bomb because that is all that matters. We just need to come to terms that this idea isn't going to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goxwerd Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I am not even sure why we are arguing this because BW would never do something like this anyways. Since this would require an entire new system implemented. i just do not think that having achievements being this gear currency is a good idea. If the dailies have taught us anything is that you can't have a single goal to get gear. The better pvp systems just let you work towards your gear regardless of what you do. Just look at how dailies have ruined Ilum, Leavers in WZ, just the overall fun of playing since you are just trying to get your daily/weekly done and by the time you finally get it done you do not want to keeping playing since all the community wants to do is do the dailies. So ilum is nothing but daily grinders, Warzones are just people leaving until they get wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organikal Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Rofl do you even play @ 50? Who averages 20 medals a warzone? Because its only 10 games to get 200 medals... cmon What happens when all you need is your gloves? You have to try to find a way to let the other team score 2x twice then come back and win? What about the bombs? Everyone will be trying to set the bomb because that is all that matters. We just need to come to terms that this idea isn't going to work. It's point less for me to defend the numbers because I said originally that the number are likely off. The point is that its a goal oriented way to earn gear rather than the garbage RNG that is there now. Trolls can't resist the urge to pick apart every word can they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcleavestein Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The theory behind this is to prevent warzone quitters that are only concerned with their daily wins while maintaining a clear goal for Valor 60 players. There have been lots of linear suggestions of "1 BM comm per bag and up the price of gear by 4" but that system is worse than the current one in my opinion. I have picked the numbers somewhat stragically so that gear will be accumulated upon reaching a goal and reaching more than one goal on any specific day would be rare. The idea is that you have a clear goal and can work towards a piece of gear, rather than hoping on the RNG gods every day. These achievements and tracking mechanisms only unlock at Valor Rank 60. They reset to 0 after completion to allow a secondary spec gear set. Note: these numbers are examples and most likely need adjustments. Achievements award a token for said piece of gear. This would also require warzone specific queues. To earn the Ear-Piece: Earn 200 medals in the Civil War To earn an Implant: Earn 200 medals in Huttball To earn an Implant: Earn 200 medals in Voidstar To earn the bracers: Earn an accumulated 800 medals in any warzone. To earn a Relic: Successfully capture 30 turrets in the Civil War To earn a Relic: Collect 80,000 valor points from Ilum while standing in a controlled point. To earn the Leg Armor: Successfully score 100 times in Huttball To earn the Belt: Successfully plant or defuse 20 bombs in Voidstar To earn the Gloves: Successfully win 20 Huttball games from being behind by at least 2 scores. To earn the Boots: Successfully win 80 Voidstar games by allowing the opponent to score less than 2 points. To earn the Off-Hand: Successfully win 55 Civil War games by a score of over 400 points To earn the Helm: Collect 70,000 valor points from Ilum while standing in a non-controlled point. To earn the Chest-piece: Successfully win 500 warzones. At least 100 wins must come from each warzone and will have their own counters. To earn the Main Hand Weapon: Deal 280,000,000 damage to enemy targets or heal a friendly targets for 160,000,000 during warzone combat. This is simply an idea that will give Battlemasters goals to reach and aim for rather than RNG bags to cry about. The number likely need to be adjusted but this type of system gives the PvPer clear goals to their gear while not providing linear progression that results in every player getting the same gear on the same day. Decent concept. Awful numbers. As someone with a job and a girlfriend, I don't think I would ever get the first piece of gear with these kind of requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGFX Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 In general, the idea here is brilliant. Good thinking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alement Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 And 200 medals is like 10-15 games. What class are you that gets 13-20 medals per round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organikal Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 I am not even sure why we are arguing this because BW would never do something like this anyways. Since this would require an entire new system implemented. Do we agree that there is a need for a new system? i just do not think that having achievements being this gear currency is a good idea. If the dailies have taught us anything is that you can't have a single goal to get gear. Why not? The single goal in dailies right now is wins... there are now goals for each piece of gear. How is that a bad thing? No more WZ quitters. The better pvp systems just let you work towards your gear regardless of what you do. Just look at how dailies have ruined Ilum, Leavers in WZ, just the overall fun of playing since you are just trying to get your daily/weekly done and by the time you finally get it done you do not want to keeping playing since all the community wants to do is do the dailies. Name the "better pvp system" you refer to. This system will eliminate the dailies and weekly system. So ilum is nothing but daily grinders, Warzones are just people leaving until they get wins. Ilum will now have a meaning outside of the daily. People will need to meet objectives. No more WZ quitters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FINALBOSS Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 People average around 250k+ dmg per warzone. So you want me to play over 1000 warzones for a MH? K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organikal Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 What class are you that gets 13-20 medals per round? That was a mistake... should be 20-30 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organikal Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) People average around 250k+ dmg per warzone. So you want me to play over 1000 warzones for a MH? K. Numbers were "exampes". K And yes, I want you to play an obscene number of WZ's for the best available weapon. What would you suggest 50? You do realize that this will most likely be the best item for months if not a year before a new tier of gear is released. Correct me if I'm wrong Edited February 17, 2012 by Organikal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yewkon Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 This idea is terrible. It puts too much emphasis on individual achievements and will only create a me-me-me attitude in Warzonels. Plus, certain classes are just not as able to get medals as other classes -- Healers for example have a hard time getting medals, while any tank class with guard has an easy time getting medals. The best way to fix the BM token issue is: 1. Create Battlemaster Bags for sale on the vendor for 400/400 tokens. 2. Switch the BM gear system to be like the current Champion bag system 3. Change the weeklies to offer 3 BM bags for those rank 65 or above, instead of the 2 extra Champ bags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organikal Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) This idea is terrible. It puts too much emphasis on individual achievements and will only create a me-me-me attitude in Warzonels. Plus, certain classes are just not as able to get medals as other classes -- Healers for example have a hard time getting medals, while any tank class with guard has an easy time getting medals. The best way to fix the BM token issue is: 1. Create Battlemaster Bags for sale on the vendor for 400/400 tokens. 2. Switch the BM gear system to be like the current Champion bag system 3. Change the weeklies to offer 3 BM bags for those rank 65 or above, instead of the 2 extra Champ bags Outside of the three plant, score, and capture achievements they are ALL team and progress to a goal. So I'll have my full set in a week now? How is this "good" ? What do I do then? Edited February 17, 2012 by Organikal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbican Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Simplest solution ever? Quadruple the cost of all BM gear, make a BM commendation drop in every bag = same gear progression as the supposed 25% RNG the dev's want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alement Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Simplest solution ever? Quadruple the cost of all BM gear, make a BM commendation drop in every bag = same gear progression as the supposed 25% RNG the dev's want. ^ this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organikal Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Simplest solution ever? Quadruple the cost of all BM gear, make a BM commendation drop in every bag = same gear progression as the supposed 25% RNG the dev's want. Simplest and dumbest. I could plot out the exact time I get all my gear. Boy doesn't that sound fun. What do I do then? Linear progress doesn't work. People lose interest Edit: 6 days of dailies to get the best item in the game for my main hand... **** really? Do you TRULY believe that is how this game should be played? Edited February 17, 2012 by Organikal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalexkhan Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 But different classes are already suited for different roles as it is. Kinda like Sorcs are the ultimate Huttball class as we speak. Let me fix that for ya... "... different classes are already suited for different roles as it is. Kinda like Sorcs are the ultimate class as we speak" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbican Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I hate ... HATE... HAAATTTEEE RNG. Yes I would rather save up 12 comms to buy a BM weapon then go 0/12 for BM comms out of bags (has happened worst streak was 0/15) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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