Drom Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 That's it? You just "fixed" Medical therapy and nothing about our pathetic area heal or totally worthless healing tree in general? Are you serious? 16-24 men heal with 11 ticks VS. 4 men (3 of them random) heal with ONLY 5 ticks? i guess you just want all healers freaking Sorcerers... it's not even funny, how unbalanced healers are in operations. It's so obvious that you've NEVER tested hard/nightmare ops with 2 operative healers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroudveil Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 It's so obvious that you've NEVER tested hard/nightmare ops with 2 operative healers how can they do this? they are busy leveling their sorcs and mercs atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPagano Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 You would be better served by providing some information on things that they should review. I'm sure they're looking at all the classes. That's not to say that they should be more vocal about it, but you can't possibly think that they are conspiring against people who chose the agent. Frankly, the agent's story makes a lot of the other class stories look like little baby bedtime tales. They've fixed a majorly broken talent in the tree. Tell them what else needs looked at. Then minute you make a post like this, they just go to the next one. And yes, I realize that there's a ton of posts about things they can look at, but if you don't want to add to those numbers, just keep quiet. Or go play something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfuller Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 How dare they fix our talent! I'm with you OP, I was hoping my spent talent points would continue to stagnate with no use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drom Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 You would be better served by providing some information on things that they should review. I'm sure they're looking at all the classes. That's not to say that they should be more vocal about it, but you can't possibly think that they are conspiring against people who chose the agent. Frankly, the agent's story makes a lot of the other class stories look like little baby bedtime tales. They've fixed a majorly broken talent in the tree. Tell them what else needs looked at. Then minute you make a post like this, they just go to the next one. And yes, I realize that there's a ton of posts about things they can look at, but if you don't want to add to those numbers, just keep quiet. Or go play something else. Operative forum is full of evidence and it's super easy to take a look for yourself in the game. Even noob can see the raw numbers. Only skilled anf geared operatives can heal in hard/nightmare ops, but sorcerers? My buddy sorc can solo heal some of the bosses in hardmode ops... that's kinda sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DervimNorth Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 how can they do this? they are busy leveling their sorcs and mercs atm. I'm pretty sure they never bothered with playing mercs, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devoter Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 If they where playing Merc, we already got some jet escape and an interrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwemh Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 That's it? You just "fixed" Medical therapy and nothing about our pathetic area heal or totally worthless healing tree in general? Are you serious? 16-24 men heal with 11 ticks VS. 4 men (3 of them random) heal with ONLY 5 ticks? i guess you just want all healers freaking Sorcerers... it's not even funny, how unbalanced healers are in operations. It's so obvious that you've NEVER tested hard/nightmare ops with 2 operative healers This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fomorii Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Operative forum is full of evidence and it's super easy to take a look for yourself in the game. Even noob can see the raw numbers. Only skilled anf geared operatives can heal in hard/nightmare ops, but sorcerers? My buddy sorc can solo heal some of the bosses in hardmode ops... that's kinda sad My guild's Scoundrel healer can solo heal some hardmode bosses too He's been golden from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doki Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) You would be better served by providing some information on things that they should review. I'm sure they're looking at all the classes. That's not to say that they should be more vocal about it, but you can't possibly think that they are conspiring against people who chose the agent. Frankly, the agent's story makes a lot of the other class stories look like little baby bedtime tales. They've fixed a majorly broken talent in the tree. Tell them what else needs looked at. Then minute you make a post like this, they just go to the next one. And yes, I realize that there's a ton of posts about things they can look at, but if you don't want to add to those numbers, just keep quiet. Or go play something else. Seriously, take a second to pop over into the Healing boards. Look through the posts -- there's hundreds of well crafted, numbers based posts there that describe the Ops shortfalls in incredible detail. These posts are never commented on by the devs. As it stands right now, even with the small 1.1.4 fix, there is absolutely no reason to roll any other healer over a Sage/Sorc. Ops is the worst of this, as out raw healing output is only 70% of the Merc on Main tank healing, and the Merc isn't evn close to the power of the Sorc/Sage. There is nothing, absolutely nothing an Ops can do that a Sorc/Sage cannot do better. And your respone? The Op story is better. Nice. Edited February 17, 2012 by Doki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oghier Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The patch is a bugfix, not a balance pass. We don't know whether BW even plans to do balance passes, or whether they consider class balance an issue. Don't assume as much, just because so much of this game resembles other products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drom Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) The patch is a bugfix, not a balance pass. We don't know whether BW even plans to do balance passes, or whether they consider class balance an issue. Don't assume as much, just because so much of this game resembles other products. You clearly dont know what you're talking about. It's weekly patch, the same kind of patch that nerfed operative DPS and so on with other classes. Edited February 17, 2012 by Drom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroudveil Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) The patch is a bugfix, not a balance pass. We don't know whether BW even plans to do balance passes, or whether they consider class balance an issue. Don't assume as much, just because so much of this game resembles other products. you mean like the bugfix patch that nerfed an opener by 20%damage, a knockdown by 50%duration and a buff by lowering AP from 50% to 30%? i would gladly take a bugfix patch that increased infusion by 50%, DS energy on crits to 4/8 and RN targets to unlimited from 4. Edited February 17, 2012 by Shroudveil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drom Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 you mean like the bugfix patch that nerfed an opener by 20%damage, a knockdown by 50%duration and a buff by lowering AP from 50% to 30%? i would gladly take a bugfix patch that increased infusion by 50%, DS energy on crits to 4/8 and RN targets to unlimited from 4. healer spec need complete rewamp of area heal. Sorc circle is just ridiculous compare to our pathetic RN. And someting against spike dmg... for example protection bubble/droid that we can use on targets? then it'll be fair compare to sorc. He can pull ppl, we can use stealth. The rest is equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XForget Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 My best guess would be as a programmer myself, that bioware will apply this bug fix, and see if the numbers are still falling short then consider balancing. Seeing operative healers / dps wanted in operations, we can all dream I guess . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drom Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 My best guess would be as a programmer myself, that bioware will apply this bug fix, and see if the numbers are still falling short then consider balancing. Seeing operative healers / dps wanted in operations, we can all dream I guess . fixing the bug does not fix the balance. RN is wortless sh*t no metter how much you boost it. 3 random ppl (possible leak with overhealing) and one target is NOTHING compare to huge sorc circle, that not just heal everyone, who's around/in it, but it's even twice more powerfull and far more tactical tool to use. As an operative: Have you ever tried to summon 3 players in the heat of the battle around yourself and far from other ppl in operation to be sure they all get the RN and not accidentally someone else in range? sorcs just vomit their SUPER-visible circle and even dog after lobotomy can jump into it and heal himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geflin Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I don't see the problem Nerf operative DPS Leave healing busted as hell This is a win win for all the light saber using classes. You can't kill the sorc/sage, your free kills for the warrior classes, and you can't get close to completing on healing. That's how it should be right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drom Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 I don't see the problem Nerf operative DPS Leave healing busted as hell This is a win win for all the light saber using classes. You can't kill the sorc/sage, your free kills for the warrior classes, and you can't get close to completing on healing. That's how it should be right? PvP is completely another thing. I'm not even going there. The things sorcs do in huttball are way over our only advantage - stealth. all I want is boost for area heal so we can compete in operations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aedgyth Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 My best guess would be as a programmer myself, that bioware will apply this bug fix, and see if the numbers are still falling short then consider balancing. Seeing operative healers / dps wanted in operations, we can all dream I guess . The ability already works for scoundrels- it is only the Agent version that is broken - so they already have these numbers..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrys Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Theres a reason we put 3 points in conceal for self heal bonus of 9%. getting that 10% back into our hot's will be helpful and applies to the base upon which crits magnify from. Fix was needed and is appreciated. Now I do think our tree needs a revamp to consider how much we spend to manage energy and TA and to add some true multifunctionality to those talents. Thats alot harder than a quick fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XForget Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Theres a reason we put 3 points in conceal for self heal bonus of 9%. getting that 10% back into our hot's will be helpful and applies to the base upon which crits magnify from. Fix was needed and is appreciated. Now I do think our tree needs a revamp to consider how much we spend to manage energy and TA and to add some true multifunctionality to those talents. Thats alot harder than a quick fix. Tbh I don't think some of what people are asking for will be able to make it into a mini patch like 1.1.4. Like additional abilities, which would take a bit more effort, than changing x value in code to y value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavenlyBluE Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 It's so obvious that you've NEVER tested hard/nightmare ops with 2 operative healers The content is so easy why do you care? We cleared nightmare EV with 2 ops the week after we hit 50.. didn't do karagaa's with 2 ops cuz by then our sorc was 50, so it was op/sorc. As an operative: Have you ever tried to summon 3 players in the heat of the battle around yourself and far from other ppl in operation to be sure they all get the RN and not accidentally someone else in range? sorcs just vomit their SUPER-visible circle and even dog after lobotomy can jump into it and heal himself The best way to use it most of the time is to position yourself such that it will hit the ppl you want and cast it on yourself. Theoretical throughput on a spreadsheet is a lot different than the practical application of keeping people alive. Most of the spreadsheet crowd considers alacrity a poor stat, so that immediately tells me that they don't understand how to heal and that healing is not dps - just because something gives you more theoretical throughput doesn't mean it's better. Quit whining, play better, and you can do anything a sorc can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryzn Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 That's it? You just "fixed" Medical therapy and nothing about our pathetic area heal or totally worthless healing tree in general? Are you serious? 16-24 men heal with 11 ticks VS. 4 men (3 of them random) heal with ONLY 5 ticks? i guess you just want all healers freaking Sorcerers... it's not even funny, how unbalanced healers are in operations. It's so obvious that you've NEVER tested hard/nightmare ops with 2 operative healers *sigh* i say again big class changes come in this way lets take patch 1.1.1 the first number is for the expansion the second number (1."1".1) is the current story line that we are in so right now we are in rise of the blah blah the 3rd number (1.1."1") is the number of which the patch are applied and is the fixes only now saying all that game changing stuff wont go in small patches and 9/10 times you have to wait for the next story line to get one most changes will come in 1.2 when that drops if you dont believe me go look at 1.1 when that drop so stop asking every week for class changes its only fixes right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustangmandark Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I heal just fine as an Ops, we could use a slight boast and make some of our ablitys more useful and less buggy , but we can heal on the run better than any class in PVE, mercs are just bleh in PVE, they do well in PVP.. But with a Sorc , Ops combo in raids they do great.. Ops is not an easy healer to play like a Sorc... But I don't wanna say learn your class, but really you do if you wanna be effective as an OPS healer.. But I do not disagree we should get a boast as we have to many wasted talent points that I agree with. We also have some buggy ablities that have been bugged since release and I sent ticket after ticket just to hear next patch , every patch.. But we do need some work, but don't say we suck at healing, if you want an easy class to play as a healer play a Sorc, if you want to be skilled healer, play a Ops..enough said. I have played all 3 healers by the way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wattser Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 A lot of the OP/Sorc comparisons come down to how the skills work and the heal per resource ratios. Op's instant heals Injection and Infusion have lower base values and lower coefficients. (Infusion also takes up a lot of resource.) Sorc gets 2 HoTs the same as an Op. Their insta cast HoT is a slightly smaller HoT, BUT it comes with an instant heal effect which makes it better, and their AoE HoT is more targets and comes with an instant heal. So for Op's tree heals, which I always thought made the class unique, an Op is not as good as the sorc. But what I think really kills the Ops is how low our skill coefficients are compares to Sorcs, which make our heals scale poorly. Our 2 easily comparable heals are Dark infusion and Kolto Injection. Follow this to see what i mean. Given: 500 bonus healing and a level 50 with 0 points spent into trees doing the max heal. Dark infusion: 3s cast, 11% total resource used, Coefficient=3.41, Base=1378 Kolto Injection: 2.5s cast, 25% total resource used, Coefficient=2.72, Base=1105 Using the known formula for heal amount. ((Coefficient*heal bonus)+base) DI = 3083 KI = 2465 Even taking into account cast times DI= 1028 hps and KI is 986. and Di really increases more here with traits and alacrity. So..... -Sorc 2 insta heals > Ops 2 insta heals -Sorc HoTs > Op HoTs (giving the edge b/c sorc's are more resource efficecent, come with an insta heal and AoE hits more targets) -Sorc bubble > Surgical (preventative > reactive + the sheer amount) -Sorc Channel heal > ....ops dont have any more heals Pretty much for the guy who said we don't have numbers to back it up. Give Ops -Heal tick on application of a HoT(KP = Tick on cast + 5 HoT ticks= current amount) OR -Alacrity reduce duration of HoT(same number of ticks they just occur faster) -Let Nanotech hit 6 targets. They do that, they can keep the weaker insta heals, just make what makes us unique worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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