1.1.4. - operative fix?

[Kharzon]

*sigh* i say again big class changes come in this way lets take patch 1.1.1

the first number is for the expansion

the second number (1."1".1) is the current story line that we are in so right now we are in rise of the blah blah

the 3rd number (1.1."1") is the number of which the patch are applied and is the fixes only

now saying all that game changing stuff wont go in small patches and 9/10 times you have to wait for the next story line to get one most changes will come in 1.2 when that drops if you dont believe me go look at 1.1 when that drop so stop asking every week for class changes its only fixes right now

 

You post this everywhere. I'd have a lot to say but then I'd get banned from the forums

 

As for comparing sorc, ops, and mercs, why? 3 different healers, heal very differently. Merc i my guild, best damn healer I've ever seen in this game. Merc's NEVER have 'mana' issues (unless you don't know how to play them). Endless supply. Ops are VERY nice. Got one in the guild, not even fully columi geared and throws 2 Kolto Probes on you = 1200 a tick. Sorcs are nice, and yes, they may be a bit over powered in some respects (same with the Pub counterpart) but gawd forbid you actually have to have some skill to play a MMO. Everyone wants easy mode.

 

/rolleyes

Edited February 17, 2012 by Kharzon

[subrosian]

I have a best-case scenario theory on Operatives:

 

They looked at scaling up our HPS on abilities and realized it wasn't actually solving the problem (lack of burst healing, lack of mobility) and that band-aid fixes would actually create other problems (higher sustained HPS while in 60%+ energy rotation could trivialize some content and force awkward balancing with Sorcerer pool).

 

So they're looking at an overhaul that won't make 1.1.4, 1.1.5 or any patch pre-1.2 (which is not far away) or even later 1.3+

 

If that's the case though, I'd rather them come clean on it so we know "okay, eventually your class will change, role an alt until mid-April."

[Molokia]

Quit whining, play better, and you can do anything a sorc can do.

 

Yup, I guess I didn't hotkey my sprint, area knockback, better shield, better heals, better aoe damage / heals, better sustained damage and I can keep going.

 

I'm not qq'ing, just making a point that you sir, are ignorant.

[MithrilGear]

I play a level 50 agent on Soresu, and I'm just going to add my two cents. I don't have the defense of a heavy, nor the straight up power of a force user. I have to careful plan every single use of my energy while chasing around teammates who have nothing more on their minds than killing someone.

 

My defenses only buy me a little time, and if the enemy know i'm there I'm screwed. Stealth is useless. I can't hide and heal, I walk slower when stealth so keeping up with teammates is out. Not to mention that when other are level 50 is not that hard for them to see me. I have no pushes, no pull and two stuns, one that requires melee range. If I get into melee with anyone my only chance for survival is throwing my ninja smoke bomb and hoping that I don't have a DoT on me or they don't want to kill me that badly.

 

All your math is invalid, cause just look at the ratio of sorc to op healers out there and tell me which is more popular.

[HeavenlyBluE]

Yup, I guess I didn't hotkey my sprint, area knockback, better shield, better heals, better aoe damage / heals, better sustained damage and I can keep going.

 

I'm not qq'ing, just making a point that you sir, are ignorant.

 

I don't know why you're talking about damage. We're talking about healers, but sorcs certainly don't do more damage than us. In fact, specing as a hybrid op is the absolute best healer for carrying re.tards through flashpoints (since the only time I ever wipe when healing a 4 man is the enrage timer and the way our talents are structured you can pick up just about every good healing talent and just about every good dps talent except acid blade).

 

Don't fk up your positioning in the first place and you won't need sprint. AoE blind is much more useful than aoe knockback. And yes the sorc's healing tools are different than ours. We don't have a shield. I haven't tried to say that we are better than sorcs. We're probably somewhat behind, but we certainly aren't broken and are perfectly sufficient to complete all the content in the game.

 

I would rather raid with an op and a sorc than play another sorc myself.

 

All your math is invalid, cause just look at the ratio of sorc to op healers out there and tell me which is more popular.

Yea because if something is popular that means it's good right? Powertechs are clearly the strongest tank, yet they are also the least popular. Racism was popular in colonial America. Does that mean it was good?

[Drom]

Quit whining, play better, and you can do anything a sorc can do.

 

you just killed last shred of your credibility

[Pinsed]

Yea because if something is popular that means it's good right? Powertechs are clearly the strongest tank, yet they are also the least popular. Racism was popular in colonial America. Does that mean it was good?

 

You do realize that there is a difference between how the word "good" is being used when talking about morals and when talking about performance, right? Just because it's the same word doesn't mean it's the same thing. So now you've dragged racism into the discussion in an attempt to get the high ground, but instead are looking like an idiot.

[HeavenlyBluE]

lol actually it was an attempt to give an example.. of which I gave 2

[Shroudveil]

I don't know why you're talking about damage. We're talking about healers, but sorcs certainly don't do more damage than us. In fact, specing as a hybrid op is the absolute best healer for carrying re.tards through flashpoints (since the only time I ever wipe when healing a 4 man is the enrage timer and the way our talents are structured you can pick up just about every good healing talent and just about every good dps talent except acid blade).

 

Don't fk up your positioning in the first place and you won't need sprint. AoE blind is much more useful than aoe knockback. And yes the sorc's healing tools are different than ours. We don't have a shield. I haven't tried to say that we are better than sorcs. We're probably somewhat behind, but we certainly aren't broken and are perfectly sufficient to complete all the content in the game.

 

I would rather raid with an op and a sorc than play another sorc myself.

 

 

Yea because if something is popular that means it's good right? Powertechs are clearly the strongest tank, yet they are also the least popular. Racism was popular in colonial America. Does that mean it was good?

 

i wouldn't call us "somewhat behind" i would call us RETARDEDLY BEHIND.

 

unlesss your definion of somewhat is:

 

LESS BURST HEALING

NO COOLDOWNS

EQUAL MOBILITY

EQUAL SUSTAIN

NO UTILITY

CRAPTASTIC AOE HEALING

 

you say you would rather heal as an op/sorc duo than sorc/sorc.

 

enlighten me why? what do YOU bring as an operative that he doesn't do equal or better?

[Arrys]

Tbh I don't think some of what people are asking for will be able to make it into a mini patch like 1.1.4. Like additional abilities, which would take a bit more effort, than changing x value in code to y value.

 

agree completely and I'ld prefer a thought out fix to a band aid and aspirin fix.

[MPagano]

Seriously, take a second to pop over into the Healing boards. Look through the posts -- there's hundreds of well crafted, numbers based posts there that describe the Ops shortfalls in incredible detail. These posts are never commented on by the devs.

 

As it stands right now, even with the small 1.1.4 fix, there is absolutely no reason to roll any other healer over a Sage/Sorc. Ops is the worst of this, as out raw healing output is only 70% of the Merc on Main tank healing, and the Merc isn't evn close to the power of the Sorc/Sage. There is nothing, absolutely nothing an Ops can do that a Sorc/Sage cannot do better.

 

And your respone? The Op story is better. Nice.

 

Try to pretend like you have grey matter between your ears. I acknowledge the plethora of posts citing many issues with the class. My point, which you've failed to grasp, is that this post isn't contributing. You can contribute more to the heap of posts pointing out flaws and imbalances, or you may as well not post. This post doesn't help.

 

There are plenty of reasons to roll and Op. Not everyone is looking to raid competitively at end game. And my response wasn't that the Op story is better (although you've done well to support your image as a small mind by reducing an entire response to one sentence). I was making a point that the story is better. I guess it's a matter of attitudes. I see what's there, and try to have fun with it while offering suggestions. You see what you want and kick and scream like a girl who dropped her lolli.

 

Believe it or not, a majority of players aren't on the forums ************ about everything. Some people are just playing the game and contributing feedback. Get over yourself, sport.

[AJCleaver]

I am my guild's main healer for Hardmode Operations and I do just fine. My only complaint lately has been Medical Therapy not doing anything. Now it does. Makes me a happy operative.

[Drom]

I am my guild's main healer for Hardmode Operations and I do just fine. My only complaint lately has been Medical Therapy not doing anything. Now it does. Makes me a happy operative.

 

It doesnt metter, how good you feel about your operative. I have no problems in hardmodes aswell, but that doesnt mean it's ok or balanced. The numbers are just way off. And it reflects in poor class popularity.

 

Bioware's just trying to cover it by ignoring any topic about that. They wont give us even combat log.

 

Agents were always 2nd row class. No promo. No main character. nothing. and now? First Nerf DPS to make it the worst class to pick for PvE and healer that's just not even close to numbers and abilities that Sorc can pull off.

[Drom]

From today's Q&A:

 

RuQu: Can you provide some details on Healer class design philosophy? Commando/Scoundrel AoE does not scale with group size due to player caps. Are they not intended to fill the raid-healer role? Scoundrels can be highly efficient, but have no tools for doing a short burst of healing.

 

In short, what is the design intention for each of the healers, and is it intended for them to be balanced so that any possible combination is competitive in Operations, or is a certain mix expected?

 

Georg Zoeller: Our stance is that all full healer specs should be viable for all type of content, which is the case, even for 16 man Operations. Our own players have no issues clearing any of the content in the game, on all difficulty levels, with any healer spec. Data from the Live game shows Operations, at all sizes, being successfully run with Commando and Scoundrel healers. It is expected for certain Operations bosses to create challenges for different healer archetypes (e.g. due to mobility requirements), but overall, every healer archetype is capable of successfully healing through any Operations and Flashpoint content in the game (currently and in the future).

 

With regards to your question about Commando/Scoundrel Area of Effect healing not scaling to group size, please understand that no heal, on any class, scales with group size. The most powerful Area of Effect heals in the game (Salvation/Revivification) affects up to 8 players, but does not scale with group size. These abilities are very costly, have an activation time requirement and require the targets to stand in a localized area for ten seconds to receive the full benefit. We plan on improving the overall Area of Effect healing performance of the Mercenary/Commando in the next major Game Update (1.2) by increasing the number of targets affected by Kolto Missile/Kolto Bomb.

 

As for Scoundrels having no tools for short burst healing, we don’t agree with that assessment. A scoundrel, for example, is capable of producing rather significant burst healing output by using Upper Hand gained from Underworld Medicine or Kolto Injection to trigger an instant Emergency Medpack or Surgical probe when needed. That said, we certainly think there’s room for improvements (and our upcoming Game Update 1.2 has a sizeable chunk of such improvements). For example, we are shifting the healing created by the Kolto Cloud ability to be front loaded in 1.2 to allow it to act as an emergency Area of Effect healing tool.

 

Finally, the perception of a specific class being not desirable can also be affected by the desirability of other classes. For example, Sage/Inquisitor healers are currently able to exceed our intended healing performance at times by affecting multiple heals with the same Conveyance/Force Bending buff. Game Update 1.2 will remove the ability to do so.

 

So yeah... 1.2 should be interesting. finally some answers and they admit that Sorc is OP

Edited February 17, 2012 by Drom

[Tamanous]

Yup incoming sorc tears!

 

I only feel bad for those not seeing it coming. Even smart concealment players knew "something" was coming for them.

[HeavenlyBluE]

you say you would rather heal as an op/sorc duo than sorc/sorc.

 

enlighten me why? what do YOU bring as an operative that he doesn't do equal or better?

It makes it more likely to complete content. Single target throughput. The best bet for keeping someone alive who makes a mistake is to have a sorc shield him, and a high alacrity operative start casting KInj.

 

Sure sorc's have more on paper throughput, and they're currently bugged which is going to be fixed soon, but on paper throughput and "offsetting boss damage" is not what real-world healing is about. Any 2 healers are fine if no one makes any mistakes. The difficult part is when you're trying to do unyielding or infernal and you can't let that guy who just ****ed up die, otherwise you're gunna wipe to enrage and it's going to waste a lot of time.

 

The whole point is pretty moot, since the runs can be done in under an hour, but for guilds struggling with that progression (or any progression) op/sorc > sorc/sorc.