Zaodon Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 These are the problems with (what we currently know about) Patch 1.2 First, patch 1.2 has the following two "changes" (no details behind these, mind you): Patch 1.2, among many other PvP changes, will remove the reliance on daily quests for your gear progression (and therefore increasing the value of the commendations you get for playing a match to the end) and penalties for quitters. 1. Gear not tied to daily quest completion (i.e. not tied to "Wins") 2. Penalty for leaving warzones (no other detail behind this) Here are the flaws with these changes. 1. If you don't give people a reason to win, then they will farm badges for valor/commendations and will not go for the Warzone Objectives (scoring in huttball, doors in voidstar, turrets in civil war). Every Warzone will just be a big PvP fight. Essentially, you'll be GUTTING Warzones entirely. You might as well just replace all 3 with a circular room where everyone just fights to the death. 2. If someone wants to leave a warzone, forcing them to stay will not generate a POSITIVE result. It will generate a NEGATIVE result. i.e. they will either farm badges and ignore the objectives (bad), or they will AFK (worse). I suggest that you do not implement EITHER of these changes in 1.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 People will still try to win. It's only logical that the progression track will be faster with wins than just farming kills death match style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 People will still try to win. It's only logical that the progression track will be faster with wins than just farming kills death match style. Currently, badges > win/lose. If I can farm 10+ badges, I'll get more rewards than 3 badges and a win. Achieving objectives interferes with gaining badges. Gaining badges interferes with achieving objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I hate to say it, but I think Bioware actually intended for people to farm badges. They probably see it as a win even for the losing team, since most losing teams walk away with at least a couple of badges unless they're really getting stomped. But for more competitive players who consider not focusing on objectives to be bad play and bad sportsmanship, farming medals leaves us with a dissatisfied feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coerCez Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 These are the problems with (what we currently know about) Patch 1.2 First, patch 1.2 has the following two "changes" (no details behind these, mind you): 1. Gear not tied to daily quest completion (i.e. not tied to "Wins") 2. Penalty for leaving warzones (no other detail behind this) Here are the flaws with these changes. 1. If you don't give people a reason to win, then they will farm badges for valor/commendations and will not go for the Warzone Objectives (scoring in huttball, doors in voidstar, turrets in civil war). Every Warzone will just be a big PvP fight. Essentially, you'll be GUTTING Warzones entirely. You might as well just replace all 3 with a circular room where everyone just fights to the death. 2. If someone wants to leave a warzone, forcing them to stay will not generate a POSITIVE result. It will generate a NEGATIVE result. i.e. they will either farm badges and ignore the objectives (bad), or they will AFK (worse). I suggest that you do not implement EITHER of these changes in 1.2. honestly, I don't see why you are trying to force people to play the way YOU want them to play in WZs. I encourage this change and would ilke to see it happening. It caters to both crowds. Thos who would like to complete objectives can do so as well as those who just would like a good fight, you know player vs. player and not player vs. environment. If both playstyles are equally rewarded, I don't see the problem... I agree with your second point about deserter debuff. I fI want to leave, I should be able to leave and If I feel like rejoining again 2 minutes later I should be able to. Not EVERYONE who leaves a WZ do so because they don't want to be involved in a failed WZ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Currently, badges > win/lose. If I can farm 10+ badges, I'll get more rewards than 3 badges and a win. Achieving objectives interferes with gaining badges. Gaining badges interferes with achieving objectives. The important part is in bold. Yes, currently after you've done your daily; actually winning the WZ is irrelevant. But, I feel confident in assuming that will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LupinTheGreat Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) ''and therefore increasing the value of the commendations you get for playing a match to the end'' =IF you win you get more commendation then farming badges and loss simple as that. Ofc you get more if you get many badges and win Edited February 16, 2012 by LupinTheGreat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) ''and therefore increasing the value of the commendations you get for playing a match to the end'' =IF you win you get more commendation then farming badges and win simple as that. Ofc you get more if you get many badges and win Please re-read it. 'and therefore increasing the value of the commendations you get for playing a match to the end' It does NOT say increasing commendations. (i.e. more commendations). It says they will have more VALUE. Therefore, it will encourage BADGE FARMING and not winning, because badge farming is what gets you MORE commendations. Edited February 16, 2012 by Zaodon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barzarel Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I hate to say it, but I think Bioware actually intended for people to farm badges. They probably see it as a win even for the losing team, since most losing teams walk away with at least a couple of badges unless they're really getting stomped. But for more competitive players who consider not focusing on objectives to be bad play and bad sportsmanship, farming medals leaves us with a dissatisfied feeling. Which will become the entirety of the problem, because it will become more attractive for heavy premade teams, to speculate in setups how to best farm players, because they know most players will feel forced to sit through the session to try avoid getting the debuff, while all same ruthlessly being grappled hooked out of spawn ledges to be farmed by premades for medals. Further the heavy premades who like doing this kinda game style for easy commendations, will stretch it as far as they can for most possible medals in shortest time, worried that next one they might face another strong premade. This is in no way gonna encourage people to play, far the opposite result is likely what you'll be seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coerCez Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The important part is in bold. Yes, currently after you've done your daily; actually winning the WZ is irrelevant. But, I feel confident in assuming that will change. Why should it change? Winning and losing are outcomes that result in people taking place and participating in WZs. I very much encourage rewarding "participation" rather than "winning-losing". People shouldn't need extra incentives to Win. Winning IS the reward... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlexGlabra Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 These are the problems with (what we currently know about) Patch 1.2 First, patch 1.2 has the following two "changes" (no details behind these, mind you): 1. Gear not tied to daily quest completion (i.e. not tied to "Wins") 2. Penalty for leaving warzones (no other detail behind this) Here are the flaws with these changes. 1. If you don't give people a reason to win, then they will farm badges for valor/commendations and will not go for the Warzone Objectives (scoring in huttball, doors in voidstar, turrets in civil war). Every Warzone will just be a big PvP fight. Essentially, you'll be GUTTING Warzones entirely. You might as well just replace all 3 with a circular room where everyone just fights to the death. 2. If someone wants to leave a warzone, forcing them to stay will not generate a POSITIVE result. It will generate a NEGATIVE result. i.e. they will either farm badges and ignore the objectives (bad), or they will AFK (worse). I suggest that you do not implement EITHER of these changes in 1.2. People need to relax. Georg's statement could mean any number of things and until we have patch notes on the test server, I'd recommend not getting so worked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meltheran Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 These are the problems with (what we currently know about) Patch 1.2 1. If you don't give people a reason to win, then they will farm badges for valor/commendations and will not go for the Warzone Objectives (scoring in huttball, doors in voidstar, turrets in civil war). Every Warzone will just be a big PvP fight. Essentially, you'll be GUTTING Warzones entirely. You might as well just replace all 3 with a circular room where everyone just fights to the death. 2. If someone wants to leave a warzone, forcing them to stay will not generate a POSITIVE result. It will generate a NEGATIVE result. i.e. they will either farm badges and ignore the objectives (bad), or they will AFK (worse). I suggest that you do not implement EITHER of these changes in 1.2. I actually agree but disagree with you too. Farming badges is a problem, but there are ways to fix it. They need to give insensitive to winning the warzone by giving medals for the objectives. They have said that more medals are in the works, so hopefully we will see medal farming fall more in line with the objectives. The problem is they need to balance it so that winning the warzone needs to have enough reward to make you want to do so, but losing it is not so demoralizing and not rewarding that people leave if they are losing. "But Meltheran," you say, "You can't just give people gear for free for losing? People should have to work for their gear!" Yeah that is true, like I said it is all about balance, and unfortunately the balance is so skewed right now (both faction balance and gear balance) that it is going to take a lot of work to get it right. Can it be done? I think so, and I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Which will become the entirety of the problem, because it will become more attractive for heavy premade teams, to speculate in setups how to best farm players, because they know most players will feel forced to sit through the session to try avoid getting the debuff, while all same ruthlessly being grappled hooked out of spawn ledges to be farmed by premades for medals. Further the heavy premades who like doing this kinda game style for easy commendations, will stretch it as far as they can for most possible medals in shortest time, worried that next one they might face another strong premade. This is in no way gonna encourage people to play, far the opposite result is likely what you'll be seeing. I think you're right, and if it happens I'll stop queuing entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lJustAlexl Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The most we should do is ask him to clarify his statements or ask when we will have a more clear idea of these incoming changes. There are good and bad ways to implement this, so I don't see the point in throwing tantrums this early on. Contact him and ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LupinTheGreat Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Please re-read it. 'and therefore increasing the value of the commendations you get for playing a match to the end' It does NOT say increasing commendations. (i.e. more commendations). It says they will have more VALUE. Therefore, it will encourage BADGE FARMING and not winning, because badge farming is what gets you MORE commendations. No its increases Value of ALL commendation gains not just Badge part if thats what you think and im prety sure they have think about badge farming part option and make it so that you get more from winning then Badge farming and not try to win. (i.e. -50% badge rewards if loss the WZ or giving more defender rewards then other badges) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 No its increases Value of ALL commendation gains not just Badge part if thats what you think and im prety sure they have think about badge farming part option and make it so that you get more from winning then Badge farming and not try to win. (i.e. -50% badge rewards if loss the WZ or giving more defender rewards then other badges) Again: 'and therefore increasing the value of the commendations you get for playing a match to the end' In English, nothing in that sentence says what you are saying. i.e. nothing at all says you'll get NUMERICALLY MORE (or less) COMMENDATIONS. It says that the commendations you get will have MORE VALUE. Example: - Currently, it takes 800 commendations to purchase a Gear Bag. - After patch 1.2, if they lower the price of the bag, it may take, for example, only 600. Therefore, my commendations have MORE VALUE. But I am not getting ANY MORE commendations than I was prior to patch 1.2 Therefore, I want to FARM BADGES (which give more commendations) rather than WIN THE MATCH. Its really, really, really, really, clear that his change is BAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synastria Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Pvp is just getting worse by the day. On my server, if the opposing team gets the upper hand right away, the other team just gives up and farms kills. And the bots and afkers in warzones is way out of hand. To fix some of this, BW needs to do a couple things. First they should lower the loss rewards so people will actually "try" to win. Theres still alot to gain from losing warzones so alot of people would rather have a fast loss than a long win. Second, there should be some faster way to report afk or bots in warzones. Putting in tickets is not effective at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tren Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Zaodon if you're right about point #1 I agree. I do think we need a little more clarification though. The statement doesn't specify one way or the other whether a change to the medals/commendations is accompanying the removal of the daily (/weekly?) mission. If there is in fact no change to the current commendation/medal system and the daily is removed, winning loses a good deal of tangible incentive, which is overall bad for PVP (imo.) Again, I'd just rather see the full set of changes before determining if this is a patently bad change or not. On pt. #2, I agree completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thiagorib Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 OMG some people will never understand this game pvp system warzone/medals (wich is the best for who does) what can i say about this thread.. FAIL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) OMG some people will never understand this game pvp system Agreed. Edited February 16, 2012 by Zaodon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LupinTheGreat Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 So far what i see i get more Commendation by winning rather then zerg badges. Still get thous 6-10 badges almoust every game and yet its almoust half less commandation then winning and not gaing so much badges. Prorply a bug i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Karsk Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I think this will be a good change. Players will still try to winn if doing objectives reward them more.I said this before, the more a player does in healing,protection,damage should be rewarded along with doing objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWookiee Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I have a feeling this is going to tie into the Rated Warzone/PvP system where "Pride" of winning dictating a higher ranking will be the win incentive. Seems to me BW is making a failsafe system where everyone can gear up based on how much you PvP and not on how many wins you have. Kinda sucks if you ask me though. Wins will be highly devalued with this. I really did not have a problem with the required wins scenario, I just couldn't stand having 6 out of 10 wins not count. If they do do this, I would like to see an increase in the cost of Champ bags to say 300/300 and have BM bags added at 800/800. At least this would increase WZ activity imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thiagorib Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Agreed. yep thats why ppl makes so many non sense threads just like you did btw based what you said you are a quitter and doesnt want the change so you can quit whenever you want without penalty and ruin some wz matches, sry but thats gonna be over lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 So far what i see i get more Commendation by winning rather then zerg badges. Still get thous 6-10 badges almoust every game and yet its almoust half less commandation then winning and not gaing so much badges. Prorply a bug i think I think this will be a good change. Players will still try to winn if doing objectives reward them more.I said this before, the more a player does in healing,protection,damage should be rewarded along with doing objectives. You are both wrong. You will NOT get more commendations in patch 1.2 at all. Scroll up if you need to learn the proper English translation of Gabe's post, I don't feel like typing it all again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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