New to lvl50, somewhat discouraged

[Darne]

I apologize in advance for the long post. Just feeling frustrated from last night and wanted some help from the community.

 

So me and my 2 buddies just hit lvl50 earlier this week. Last night was the first time we were all around, so we figured "let's do some of this lvl 50 stuff we keep hearing about!!"

 

We picked up a 4th from gen chat and gave BT hard mode a try. Everything was going fine. We got to the GXR-5 Sabotage Droid mini boss, and this is where I felt like things started going wrong. I am 100% certain that we were doing the boss incorrectly, so the little probes he adds were giving us quite the trouble. We wiped around 4-6 times. We had a jugg tank, 2 melee dps (mara and sin) and a healer. Since 3/4 of us were melee, we really had little kiting options for those probes and they just kept exploding on us etc etc. We finally got through it basically because my buddy is a beast of a tank. He had to kite everything with taunts while me and the sin just DPSed our asses off. The tank ended up dying but we made it. After that fight though, everything else was easy mode and we never died again.

 

Long story short, do melee DPS always get the short end of the stick in terms of boss fights? I remember a few other "bosses" during heroics or flashpoints where melee DPS also got screwed over. If the healer has to choose between keeping me alive, or the tank, I can't blame him for choosing the tank. That has happened many times leveling up with my 2 buddies. In fact, the gen chat always has people "LFM for EV hard, ranged DPS." I never see "LFM for EV Hard, mara/sin." Are there any fights in any flashpoints/operations that favor melee? If all our damage = same, I'm starting to think there is no point to melee. EVER. My group buffs are ok sure, but what's the point in having them if I'm getting AoEed to death before I can ever use them effectively. I want to be a team player, not a drain for the healer's resources.

 

Anyways, we congratulated ourselves and decided, let's PvP a little. God were we naive. As 3 fresh lvl50s, I can't even begin to explain how much trouble we had. We are on The Harbringer server, one of the most populated I believe. It almost feels like we were the last ones to turn 50 and therefore the last ones to begin our gear grind. Going up against people with 500-600+ expertise while I have ~30 from my saber is a *********** joke. We got huttball all 3 games we played, and I'm pretty sure against the same pre-made. The same 4 guys in full battlemasters absolutely destroyed our faces. They had us at 0-5 while farming kills AT OUR GOAL LINE WITH THE BALL. My healer friend ended up just stealthing and sitting down at their goal line while my other friend ended the game for us. My tank buddy had to end the game by pushing the ball carrier into scoring. What. A. Joke.

 

In the 10-49 bracket, I felt like we always did well together. I always got around 4-6 medals and 50-80 comms depending on win or loss. I got 2 medals and around 50 comms between all 3 games last night. We rage quit. The first time I rage quit a game in years. I'm older now and play games for fun/entertainment, not to be the best or anything so I tend to take a relaxed approached to things these days. This isn't right though. Can expertise really play this big of a difference? I couldn't even get a guy down to 1/2 before he killed me. Even one on one. 1v1 is where I used to shine before, even against higher lvl'd people in the 10-49. It's heart breaking to suck at it now. Especially when my Sin tank alt EASILY gets 7-10 medals (win or loss, doesn't matter) + 2-4 MVP votes to break 110 comms every game. It's frustrating to play mara sometimes. Almost considering rolling a merc for DPS.

 

I guess I'm just looking for some comforting words. Does it get better? If I somehow start getting my PvE/PvP dailies done and start acquiring better gear, will I start doing damage again? Will I ever not be a liability in raiding content? I don't consider myself bad at this game, but I am sure starting to feel unloved. I've watched Stmp and Kiba and others play. I learned from them for sure. I've asked around the forums for help vs certain classes. I know some tactics and strategies. All three of us played badly in PvP last night, but at least my two buddies did well in the PvE content. Last night I was very bad though. Even without meters, I know I under performed my two friends. It was a sad, sad day for me. The worst part is, I feel like I could have done better as ranged DPS.

 

Please, someone talk me out of rerolling into a ranged DPS. I like my mara, but he sadly feels like a crutch in both PvE as well as PvP at the moment.

[EasymodeX]

Hmm, basically like this: this game's PvE is poorly-tuned in general. In all PvE in all games in general, range tend to have it easier than melee. This means that in SWTOR, some mechanics are rather anti-melee.

 

Overall, being melee is not a problem though. The issue tends to be when you have ALL your DPS as melee, then a few fights can rather rough. There's no real NEED to reroll, unless you feel like it. That's really a subjective call.

 

 

Theoretically, if SWTOR survives a good stretch, they will get better at implementing mechanics that are neutral to melee/range, or anti-"both". Etc.

[BlownSi]

Spend some time doing the Belsavis and Ilum dailies to get your hilts and armor mods along with an enhancement and mods for any custom armor you have. This will at least max you out for the gear you have now. This will at least help.

 

Also, my guild and I have noticed that it seems the Hard Mode FP's work in reverse as far as difficulty. BT is one of the hardest 4-man FPs in hard mode. We have started with Kaon and some of the other FPs that in normal mode are higher level.

 

Trust me, a well geared and well played Sent/Mara can absolutely smash face. If a Mara/Sent gets on my BH in PVP, they will chew through me really quickly, and there is nothing I can do.

Edited February 15, 2012 by BlownSi

[comeonucrazyguy]

If you're new to lvl 50 than your gear sucks. Do like the above poster said, get better gear before you start whining that you suck. Of course you suck, you have crappy gear!

[Darne]

That's good to hear. I guess we'll just have to be that group in gen chat asking "LF1M ranged DPS." I figured BW's claims of every class being equals was true, but mmos never change. You can still have "optimal" groups and what not. That's unfortunate.

 

I do agree with you though that ranged always have it easier. Even a somewhat easy mechanic like Revan's pull in and AoE lightning can mess with a ranged player's mind who's so used to just sitting back, not moving, and nuking. I enjoy being up front and personal though. I enjoy my interrupt on such a short CD (talented). I enjoy my group buffs. I generally enjoy the marauder, and really don't want to replace him as my main. I just hope they start listening to our class' forum. While I generally think most of the things people ask for are over the top, I do agree that some balancing is long over due for our class. It's just more apparent now that I have a 50 and starting to get a taste of other classes from my alts.

 

I guess I'll just do what I can for the time, and hope BW can truly balance things out. I do have faith in them. To go against everyone in their tin foil hats, I think they've handled this game well so far.

 

I'll work on finding better mods for my current gear while trying to get some purple sets. Thanks for the tips.

[AetherMcLoud]

Trust me, a well geared and well played Sent/Mara can absolutely smash face. If a Mara/Sent gets on my BH in PVP, they will chew through me really quickly, and there is nothing I can do.

 

BT isn't really that hard, but the droid boss with those little droid adds is. I find it much easier (if you don't outgear the instance) to go light side and do the 4 republic bosses instead. They are much easier to kill.

 

Concerning the PVP, it's like that for every class at level 50 starting out.

[M_Ngc]

This is EXACTLY what happened to me and a 3 other fresh 50's recently. The first few games were rough 0-7's, 0-12's, 1-2 medals max, 30 comms max. My advice to you is to NOT pvp with your friends for a while. 3-4 fresh 50's = guaranteed loss. After about a week and a half of pvping by myself or maybe 1 other fresh 50 I was able to get all Cent gear with Champ sabers. Also doing the dailies, weeklies for pvp will help you guys get geared up fast. If you're having trouble winning in WZ's for dailies try going to ilum as most servers have Imp players outnumbering Pub players at least 3-1 most of the time and just farm armaments.

 

As far as FP HM's we also had the same problem. Not until we had 2-3 pieces of PVP armor did BT HM become fairly easy.

[AmedusTOR]

Concerning the PVP, it's like that for every class at level 50 starting out.

 

This exactly. A fresh 50 with no PVP gear will get his butt handed to him a LOT to start with. As mentioned, upgrade some gear and I'm sure you'll notice a difference.

 

Also, I'm not sure how you're specc'ed, but maybe try Rage for a bit until you get some gear rolling in. It's fairly easy to get some medals in PVP with auto-crit smashes.

[Darne]

If you're new to lvl 50 than your gear sucks. Do like the above poster said, get better gear before you start whining that you suck. Of course you suck, you have crappy gear!

 

Concerning the PVP, it's like that for every class at level 50 starting out.

 

I guess I should say that I kind of expected this to be the case for PvP (and to an extent PvE). Like I said, I've seen Stmp and Kiba play. I don't doubt that a mara can melt faces. I guess I was just venting and frustrated. It's annoying to have to get expertise just to be on par. The merits and validity of expertise/resilience is for another thread on another day though.

 

I should have rephrased my original post to say something like: after I get gear, will I be a good team player as a mara? Especially in FP/OPs. Does my bloodthirst and berserk as anni (so group heals) make up for me being melee? Will I ever get to a point where the healer won't have to decide on me or the tank staying alive? I just want to help the team, and from last night, I felt like I just hurt it.

 

As far as FP HM's we also had the same problem. Not until we had 2-3 pieces of PVP armor did BT HM become fairly easy.

 

I'm sure better gear makes us... well... better. But do you find yourself more useful in a team now with it? Our set bonuses honestly aren't that impressive and I fear gear will only help so much. In terms of team player, where would you guys put us compared to other DPS classes? I'm ok with not being #1 on damage as long as I can bring something else to the table. Right now, I feel like I bring little is all I'm saying.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Darne

[Bamfu]

As far as PvP goes, I'm a Battlemaster marauder. I maul people's faces off. There aren't any 1v1s I get into that I feel like I could lose (except for operatives when my trinket is down and they start with stealth opener AND blow CDs).

 

I dinged 50 before most people and had Champ gear before most people, so I never felt totally and completely ineffective, although Marauders definitely seem under some classes in terms of capability. I was incredibly frustrated for a while though, because I refused to try annihilation and really wanted to play Carnage.

 

My biggest advice in general is to find an Annihilation spec. I didn't see you mention your spec, so maybe you already are, but it is hands down better all around.

 

My biggest advice to you concerning PvP is to just do it more. When your gear sucks, you have to find tricks and learn to exploit your abilities as well as you can just to compete. Although it's an uphill battle, an Annihilation marauder, even in mediocre gear, can hold his own. What I found happening because I was Carnage and failing to break 300k most of the time while constantly having near top deaths was that I was learning when best to use choke and my shields and my 99% dmg debuff and stims and heals etc..

 

When I applied that to a decently geared annihilation spec (after running some HMs to learn how to play the spec) my game experience changed completely. It was like having a huuuuge pain in your back because you slept wrong, and something just pops around noon and instantly feels soooo much better.

 

Learning to play your class in hard-mode (Carnage or, in your case, crap gear) is like being on deck in baseball with a donut on your bat. Once you step up to the plate (with real gear and spec), you swing so fast you impress yourself.

 

Now I break 400k in most full-length games. I get a ton of medals (including 75k healed), and like I said, I really feel like I cannot be killed 1v1. When I'm on people, they no longer turn around and just punch me in the face, they run. I've had groups of people run from me by myself. It's a looooot of fun.

 

It's a good thing too because I'm sure my buddies were sick of my complaining about how bad marauders sucked when I was Carnage, and I was ready to quit. I got a merc and a sorc to mid twenties before I decided to bite the bullet and try annihilation.

[Wubsie]

I hit 50 on my sorc two days ago [my first 50] and, within a day, I have 3 champion pieces [two relics and an earpiece] and 5 Centurion pieces [Legs, boots, chest, hands, implant].

Granted, I got lucky. I hit 50 the night before Daily's/Weekly's reset on Ilum and I pounded that 150 kills as fast as I could both days. That's 6 bags right there, plus the other 2 from the 2 daily's, plus 3 more from comms.

 

3 Weekly + 3 Weekly + 2 Daily + 2 Daily + 3 comms = 13 bags my first day of being 50. All Cent/Champ comms BUT I was able to use them to get my Expertise up to, er, about 7%?

 

Just don't do what I did and take out the mods for your old Surge/Crit purple mods the night before the Surge nerf :|

[Darne]

Learning to play your class in hard-mode (Carnage or, in your case, crap gear) is like being on deck in baseball with a donut on your bat. Once you step up to the plate (with real gear and spec), you swing so fast you impress yourself.

 

That's an awesome analogy man, thanks. I needed to hear that. I've actually been playing anni since lvl 10. I gave carnage a try back at lvl 40 or so, but didn't like it and switched back.

 

I feel like most of the forum community is PvP-centric. Which is fine. Would be nice to hear from a Rakata Mara. I haven't ever seen one. All of the Rakata "Robocop" gear I see are Juggs while most of the Battlemaster gear I see are Maras. Is Mara more of a PvP themed class? It never felt like that lvling up, but maybe this is kind of a sign? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Darne

[Bamfu]

Since post-WotLK, I have hated raiding so much that I never did a single Cataclysm or SWTOR raid. I've actually only done like 5 HMs (the ones I told you about).

 

In my readings, though, I've read that Marauders aren't bad by any means in the PvE DPS world, but I don't think they're at top.

 

I do know that they're the only imperial class with the bloodthirst effect (SWTOR's bloodlust), so they're definitely used in PvE. You're bringing that along with some nice raid heals for AoE spots, so I think 1-2 Marauders in a raid would be a big plus.

[M_Ngc]

I should have rephrased my original post to say something like: after I get gear, will I be a good team player as a mara? Especially in FP/OPs. Does my bloodthirst and berserk as anni (so group heals) make up for me being melee? Will I ever get to a point where the healer won't have to decide on me or the tank staying alive? I just want to help the team, and from last night, I felt like I just hurt it.

 

I'm sure better gear makes us... well... better. But do you find yourself more useful in a team now with it? Our set bonuses honestly aren't that impressive and I fear gear will only help so much. In terms of team player, where would you guys put us compared to other DPS classes? I'm ok with not being #1 on damage as long as I can bring something else to the table. Right now, I feel like I bring little is all I'm saying.

 

Oh definitely, after getting some decent gear I hit my first 300k game with no pocket healer. Being able to take out another player 1v1 will always help your team. Holding out a Civil War turret by using undying rage, force cloak, and some of our defensive abilities for just that one extra second helps A LOT.

 

As far as being a team player i think we're stuck with mainly being a dps player meaning we mainly have one purpose but are generally the best at it. Also predation/bloodthirst/beserk helps the team in almost any situation.

[Aram_Darksun]

Hmm, basically like this: this game's PvE is poorly-tuned in general. In all PvE in all games in general, range tend to have it easier than melee. This means that in SWTOR, some mechanics are rather anti-melee.

 

Overall, being melee is not a problem though. The issue tends to be when you have ALL your DPS as melee, then a few fights can rather rough. There's no real NEED to reroll, unless you feel like it. That's really a subjective call.

 

 

Theoretically, if SWTOR survives a good stretch, they will get better at implementing mechanics that are neutral to melee/range, or anti-"both". Etc.

 

The concepts, while perhaps not readily apparant, should be easy enough to understand in hindsight (other games) and widely enough known for anyone in the industry to know what you are talking about.

 

Unfortunately I am not sure that is the case here.

 

I am a little bitter about that actually because I come from a game where the current dev team is infamously anti melee, or anti scout to be exact.

 

Still, maybe because it is such a big problem in 'that' game I am finding the imbalance here in TOR rather tame in comparison.

 

As a side note that is usually harder for a melee dps to do their class it can breed a type of elitism (and I do not exclude myself from that). Sometimes at least, I take pride in the fact that I have to work hard to do the same job as others. It does offer a small measure of comfort if you can find it.

 

My suggestion would be yeh, roll a ranged dps and see if you like it however, don't give up on your Marauder yet. You may be 50, but you probably aint geared yet (and I don't mean that derisively). With better gear some of your problems will be alleviated. Apart from the odd fight the Marauder is very capable in pve. Your dps will come over time with gear and experience, not the second you hit 50.

 

PvP is something else..

Edited February 16, 2012 by Aram_Darksun

[Ryndaris]

Had the same problem as you OP. I sucked it up, did my dailies, weeklies and even some HM and Ops. Now my gear is 2 columni, 2 champion and the rest is 126 PvE/PvP. Sounds pretty bad, right?

 

No. Choose your targets wisely in WZs. Always go for the healers first, heavy armor (troopers being the exception) last. The difference I've noticed after getting this bare minimum in gear is insane. I can completely lock down any healer, kill most of them (the only healer I've had trouble with so far is this one battlemaster scoundrel... he just doesn't seem to care I'm there <_<) and that is the greatest service that you can perform for your team. I can demolish most classes in 1v1, even when they outgear me. I can delay objectives for a considerable time popping cooldowns.

 

And just wait for that one time in huttball when the stars align and you go predation - ball - charge that one dude up on their ramp then pop CDs and score. Feels great

[Crawelc]

There is 0 reason to go into lvl 50 pvp with no expertise, buy lvl 48 pvp weapon, rip enhancement, get expertise

[enteri]

Hi, I wish I could say I understand what you are going through but I really can't.

 

Playing Marauder has been giving me great pleasure since lvl 1 and I haven't hesitated for a second. I did't matter if I had gear or not, if I was lvl 10 or 50, if I did pvp or pve. Playing this class is very fun and rewarding for me. That's how getting new gear for me was pleasant but not the most important for this game.

 

I see now that many people just want to achieve a goal which is gearing up disregarding all the fun that playing the game can provide.

 

That is fine by me, I am not here to judge, so answering OP question:

 

For PVE i have currently half Columi half Champion gear. With that I can TANK BT HM. With addional 2 dps (and not 2 range) and healer we are doing BT in 20-25 min.

In PVP i mostly top the dmg and I am pretty useful part of the team, so yeah you don't have to reroll.

 

But all in all: if you don't have a pleasure playing this class you don't have any pressure to do so. It is your fun that should be a priority for you not your team's profit. Just find a guild that accepts that.