WORLD PVP: The BEST advice I can give Bioware

[Bamajawn]

I've concluded that most of the people in PvP don't really want to PvP unless they have a distinct gear advantage and are far more interested in gear and bragging rights than actual PvP. Thus the kill-trading and various exploits.

[Baalazar]

Keep bumping this thread if you want world pvp in this game fixed and to become a more permanent part of the game. Also post suggestions you might have.

[Lugh]

All good points hope a mod actually relays this to some devs.

 

Listening to your playerbase would help this game immensely bioware.

 

Listening to your player base will destroy this game faster than it has any other.

 

Squeaky wheels get grease, and eventually fall off no matter what you do. UNLESS, you fix the wheel completely.

 

That is something that the developer's can't ever do, as whiners will whine.

[Baalazar]

Listening to your player base will destroy this game faster than it has any other.

 

Squeaky wheels get grease, and eventually fall off no matter what you do. UNLESS, you fix the wheel completely.

 

That is something that the developer's can't ever do, as whiners will whine.

 

Listening to every whine of your playerbase will kill a game. Taking some of their suggestions and improving on them makes a better game.

[CowboyRogue]

There is only 1 way to get OPVP in this game. The answer is to stop warzones at lvl 49. Once you hit lvl 50 bamm your out in the real world and forced to OPVP. And the idea of OPVP on each planet is bad, it will dilute the lvl 50 crowd to thin. Stick with Ilum or just scrap it for a new planet. All OPVP needs to be done on one planet, you can have multiple zones, fine but all on one planet, that way you have one chat channel for the entire planet where things can be coordinated easily.

 

Now to the other issue of the gear grind. It appears that is what we will be stuck with in this game, no other incentive. Fine we can work with that too. Have comms drop from player kills. Have the type of comm dropped tied to the valor rank of the individual that died. That way it will give incentive to lower valor ranks to get out there and band together to kill the BM's to get the better comm drops.

 

Agree or not, I believe this would go along way to help the OPVP in this game.

[Bamajawn]

Now to the other issue of the gear grind. It appears that is what we will be stuck with in this game, no other incentive. Fine we can work with that too. Have comms drop from player kills. Have the type of comm dropped tied to the valor rank of the individual that died. That way it will give incentive to lower valor ranks to get out there and band together to kill the BM's to get the better comm drops.

 

Agree or not, I believe this would go along way to help the OPVP in this game.

 

Great idea tying the commendation drop to the valor of the "victim". I like that a lot.

[Baalazar]

There is only 1 way to get OPVP in this game. The answer is to stop warzones at lvl 49. Once you hit lvl 50 bamm your out in the real world and forced to OPVP. And the idea of OPVP on each planet is bad, it will dilute the lvl 50 crowd to thin. Stick with Ilum or just scrap it for a new planet. All OPVP needs to be done on one planet, you can have multiple zones, fine but all on one planet, that way you have one chat channel for the entire planet where things can be coordinated easily.

 

Now to the other issue of the gear grind. It appears that is what we will be stuck with in this game, no other incentive. Fine we can work with that too. Have comms drop from player kills. Have the type of comm dropped tied to the valor rank of the individual that died. That way it will give incentive to lower valor ranks to get out there and band together to kill the BM's to get the better comm drops.

 

Agree or not, I believe this would go along way to help the OPVP in this game.

 

The commendations idea being based on rank is a good suggestion, but i dont' think they should prohibit 50s from going into Warzones. There is a large part of the playerbase that enjoys instanced pvp.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Baalazar

[Mirialol]

Listening to your player base will destroy this game faster than it has any other.

 

Squeaky wheels get grease, and eventually fall off no matter what you do. UNLESS, you fix the wheel completely.

 

That is something that the developer's can't ever do, as whiners will whine.

 

listening to dumb bad players destroy the game (i.e. people that cry about balance, nerf this class, nerf that class, etc). 95% of the threads in pvp forums.

 

 

listening to intelligent, thoughtful players that make well thought out posts can improve the game. 5% of the threads in pvp forums.

 

 

sadly good posts get bumped down into oblivion by bad posts.

[Mirialol]

The commendations idea being based on rank is a good suggestion, but i dont' think they should prohibit 50s from going into Warzones. There is a large part of the playerbase that enjoys instanced pvp.

 

u only get 10 merc comm a day per planet (and there are like ~10 to 15 planets) so u get 100 to 150 a max from killing 1 person on each planet

 

 

so yea people would still need to do wz's. this idea just give player alternative way to gain small merc comm, and encourage world pvp

[Baalazar]

u only get 10 merc comm a day per planet (and there are like ~10 to 15 planets) so u get 100 to 150 a max from killing 1 person on each planet

 

 

so yea people would still need to do wz's. this idea just give player alternative way to gain small merc comm, and encourage world pvp

 

Exactly, Wzs don't need to be taken away People just need incentives to go pvp outside of Warzones, and right now there is hardly any reason to do so.

[Baalazar]

Try to keep this post on the first page so we have on thread on here actually about pvp.

 

Good suggestions so far keep them coming.

[Mangzane]

The problem for me isn't a lack of opportunity to engage in world PvP, it is the simple fact that if I go to an Empire town on Tatooine or Hoth, any damage I do there is simply negated because the guards and NPC's will respawn in 8minutes.

 

Where is the fun in that?

 

We need a sandbox area, that is able to be taken over / defended, with interactive objects, for world pvp to mean anything.

 

There would need to be multiple bases on a single planet, as to not encourage 40v10 zergs because of faction imbalance, or have it instanced so that each instance has a max number of players to keep sides even.

[DarthHarlem]

No, no, no, no... People referencing WoW in regards to open world pvp make me giggle.

 

/whisper play more mmos!

 

 

Anyway, all they have to do is add more things to Illum or make it bigger. Actually a better summary.

 

1. Make Illum bigger to cover more area.

 

2. Add strutures tthat include perhaps bunkers, bases, or something defendable that can be captured. No I don't mean something easy as it now in which you run up and shot a helpless npc. Put some npc guards of the other faction on the area with a captain of sort so that the opposing side has to work to take the area. Not only that, but the side it belongs to can show up and defend it. This works real well when there is one side with more numbers. Those defending should have the edge by giving them blasters or some sort of armor buff. Make it worth defending and capturing but an effort to do either.

 

3. Give a more proactive valor buff to those who hold these areas and a nice realm bonus to whomever holds all of the defendable spots.

 

4. Set a primary base in Illum. Make i t a primary base with layers of npc faction based defenses. That way it will take large numbers of people to take it and provide a nice amount of valor for those that actually take the location. When I say layers, I mean like fort walls, npc guards, blaster cannons, allow the guild that owns it the ability to call in area buffs or area attacks. This would generate fights as the opposing side, could come and help defend it. But it would need to be worth a lot of valor and maybe say some bag drops or something.

 

5. Along with the primary base, defendable structures put in firebases or command posts in which sides can get rest and healing bonuses. Basically a place to setup and plan an attack, near locations that aer held by the enemy. Even a closer respawn fight to help during those big fights. An attack position for large scale fights.

 

6. Add more fluff. Put in pvp titles that cover kills, solo kills, base takes, realm takes, and etc.

 

I could say more there but there is a lot of potential but the current setup is pointless. Making pvp gear was a completely stupid idea. Especially making it random as it is now, in this game. In which I propose something that would be nice but would need to be approached very carefully.

 

7. Add in elite pvp gear. That can only be bought (not random pvp bag nonsense) by pvp. How could they do that? Put in a pvp point system. DAOC had realm points and Aion had AP. They could create a top tier set of pvp that can only be earned in big boy pvp(open not arena). A person could go out and say get 15000 kills and get that elite head piece or 100k and that chest piece. Make it more complex by having gear based on solo kills. Say 2000 solo kills get a elite pvp weapon. See where I am going here? To make it even more complex, dying could make you lose a bit of SWP (Star wars points – just made that up)

 

Character progression that is carried down the path of doing something at end game with a purpose which will equate and equal fun, can be achieved with a few changes and I think the above could do it with some adjustments.

 

 

[va_wanderer]

I like your ideas, mainly because I've been wanting something similar. You're right in a way. They can't really force open PvP or "implement" it, per se; not without a huge change to the game ala WAR. They can (and did), however, do the opposite. Instead of implementing or encouraging open PvP, they managed to discourage and ruin it by funnelling all of the level 50's into one place in order to complete the arbitrary quests to get new gear. Instead of having a mercenary token system like they originally were planning - in which tokens drop off of players killed anywhere in open world PvP - and implementing a valor gain system for ALL kills rather than just kills on Ilum, they force us into one place.

 

Segregating PvP into areas outside of the PvE universe has always been the worst thing to do for keeping PvP running well.

 

You want the best rewards to be drawing one faction into another faction's areas to take out something signficant (and then go), not zerging/camping respawn areas, and you need to have defenders be able to be significant even in small numbers.

 

The biggest fallacy about PvP is that the rewards should come simply from killing other players. That's what led us straight to kill-trading and happy Valor farmers who aren't even PvPing, just herding up to maximize their rate of reward.

 

Killing other players should be the LOWEST form of Valor gain. The real rewards should be coming from going into areas where enemy players can and will help out in defense of objectives, and taking those objectives regardless.

 

Bury the best targets for PvP rewards in the middle of the most frequently travelled areas for each planet for the other faction, and make people blast their way in and through PvE defenses to do them. People WILL defend those, but with enough PvE defenses, they won't simply be focus fired down by the attackers and a lack of players won't render the content meaningless. Make these PvE defenses ONLY effected by expertise.

 

Simply making it pure World PvP is like trying to trigger a fission reaction by scattering the rods across a continent-sized space. Trying to achieve critical mass by sticking all the PvPers in one planet/zone fails as well, as one side gets frustrated and leaves the other one endlessly hunting for any foolish scraps dumb enough to leap in the pit full of starving wolves.

 

You must put the two worlds together, make them one. Stop saying "This is for PvP, that is for PvE". For PvP to be part of the world, it must be intergrated into the world. All of it. No more Ilums.

Edited February 15, 2012 by va_wanderer

[Mirialol]

No, no, no, no... People referencing WoW in regards to open world pvp make me giggle.

 

/whisper play more mmos!

 

 

Anyway, all they have to do is add more things to Illum or make it bigger. Actually a better summary.

 

1. Make Illum bigger to cover more area.

 

2. Add strutures tthat include perhaps bunkers, bases, or something defendable that can be captured. No I don't mean something easy as it now in which you run up and shot a helpless npc. Put some npc guards of the other faction on the area with a captain of sort so that the opposing side has to work to take the area. Not only that, but the side it belongs to can show up and defend it. This works real well when there is one side with more numbers. Those defending should have the edge by giving them blasters or some sort of armor buff. Make it worth defending and capturing but an effort to do either.

 

3. Give a more proactive valor buff to those who hold these areas and a nice realm bonus to whomever holds all of the defendable spots.

 

4. Set a primary base in Illum. Make i t a primary base with layers of npc faction based defenses. That way it will take large numbers of people to take it and provide a nice amount of valor for those that actually take the location. When I say layers, I mean like fort walls, npc guards, blaster cannons, allow the guild that owns it the ability to call in area buffs or area attacks. This would generate fights as the opposing side, could come and help defend it. But it would need to be worth a lot of valor and maybe say some bag drops or something.

 

5. Along with the primary base, defendable structures put in firebases or command posts in which sides can get rest and healing bonuses. Basically a place to setup and plan an attack, near locations that aer held by the enemy. Even a closer respawn fight to help during those big fights. An attack position for large scale fights.

 

6. Add more fluff. Put in pvp titles that cover kills, solo kills, base takes, realm takes, and etc.

 

I could say more there but there is a lot of potential but the current setup is pointless. Making pvp gear was a completely stupid idea. Especially making it random as it is now, in this game. In which I propose something that would be nice but would need to be approached very carefully.

 

7. Add in elite pvp gear. That can only be bought (not random pvp bag nonsense) by pvp. How could they do that? Put in a pvp point system. DAOC had realm points and Aion had AP. They could create a top tier set of pvp that can only be earned in big boy pvp(open not arena). A person could go out and say get 15000 kills and get that elite head piece or 100k and that chest piece. Make it more complex by having gear based on solo kills. Say 2000 solo kills get a elite pvp weapon. See where I am going here? To make it even more complex, dying could make you lose a bit of SWP (Star wars points – just made that up)

 

Character progression that is carried down the path of doing something at end game with a purpose which will equate and equal fun, can be achieved with a few changes and I think the above could do it with some adjustments.

 

 

 

 

yea except we dont want world pvp to be segragated to one planet...

 

 

 

pvpers pay same amt of money as pve subscribers do man. its ridiculous to play on a pvp server and have only 1 planet u can pvp in.

 

the way pvp is discriminated / segregated against pve in lot of mmo nowadays makes me feel like being BLACK in 1960's

[Bigdog]

All they need to do is make new gear that looks different for world pvp xp. That will get ppl out of fleets and going out to get new gear, then take safe zones out of pvp servers, id love to get a big group and go rush their main city...

[Baalazar]

All they need to do is make new gear that looks different for world pvp xp. That will get ppl out of fleets and going out to get new gear, then take safe zones out of pvp servers, id love to get a big group and go rush their main city...

 

Gear alone isn't a good enough incentive for most pvpers, but it would somewhat help with the issues that are currently in game. Overall not a permanent solution.

[DarthHarlem]

yea except we dont want world pvp to be segragated to one planet...

 

 

 

pvpers pay same amt of money as pve subscribers do man. its ridiculous to play on a pvp server and have only 1 planet u can pvp in.

 

the way pvp is discriminated / segregated against pve in lot of mmo nowadays makes me feel like being BLACK in 1960's

 

Keep in mind, I am only talking about world pvp in general. In most pvp mmos, there is one huge area for world pvp. The only difference with a normal server and a pvp one is that on at pvp server, its open game everywhere. Also, I think the same idea could be applied to multiple planets but that might stretch the action out too far and make fights less frequent.

[Sevvy]

All they need to do is make new gear that looks different for world pvp xp. That will get ppl out of fleets and going out to get new gear, then take safe zones out of pvp servers, id love to get a big group and go rush their main city...

 

Gear is the reason why PvP sucks in the first place. PvP went from being about killing the enemy, to grinding gear in instances. JUST LIKE RAIDING! Fail.

[Mirialol]

All they need to do is make new gear that looks different for world pvp xp. That will get ppl out of fleets and going out to get new gear, then take safe zones out of pvp servers, id love to get a big group and go rush their main city...

 

in all honesty zerg should have no place in this mmo..

 

 

1. the engine doesnt support large number of players fighting in one place

 

2. large group pvp takes no skill. group of 50 bad players will always beat group of 30 good players.

 

3. on the other hand, group of 3 good players can easily beat group of 5 bad players.

 

4. large group pvp / zerging will exacerbate faction population imbalance on most servers. it would create more problems rather than fixing them.

 

5. large group pvp = very un-starwars like. star wars is a movie / story that glorifies on individuality, duels, small scale fights. not zerg vs zerg

Edited February 15, 2012 by Mirialol

[Baalazar]

in all honesty zerg should have no place in this mmo..

 

 

1. the engine doesnt support large number of players fighting in one place

 

2. large group pvp = very un-starwars like. star wars is a movie / story that glorifies on individuality, duels, small scale fights. not zerg vs zerg

 

This games based on kotor more than the movies. Revan used large scale warfare.

 

Large planetary battles would fit rather well in this game i would think.

[Mirialol]

This games based on kotor more than the movies. Revan used large scale warfare.

 

Large planetary battles would fit rather well in this game i would think.

 

hm perhaps that is true

 

 

but i think 1~4 are good reasons to not add another ilum to this game / put all world pvp on 1 planet :s

[Sylvannus]

in all honesty zerg should have no place in this mmo..

 

 

1. the engine doesnt support large number of players fighting in one place

 

2. large group pvp takes no skill. group of 50 bad players will always beat group of 30 good players.

 

3. on the other hand, group of 3 good players can easily beat group of 5 bad players.

 

4. large group pvp / zerging will exacerbate faction population imbalance on most servers. it would create rather than fix more problems.

 

5. large group pvp = very un-starwars like. star wars is a movie / story that glorifies on individuality, duels, small scale fights. not zerg vs zerg

 

 

 

1) There is no way you can possibly know what the engine is designed for. Just because there are some release bugs that have yet to be addressed does not mean the engine in effed.

 

2) maybe the group of 30 good players should get 20 more players... duh...

 

3) point three defeats your second point as it points out a lack of organization NOT a broken mechanic.

 

4) How so? Did you just make a statement without anything to back it up?

 

5) Did you even watch the movies? Really? Looks like someone needs to go back and look again, I remember a large amount of scenes in the movies with massive army on army battles.

 

6) Just play the game and stop complaining...

[Mirialol]

1) There is no way you can possibly know what the engine is designed for. Just because there are some release bugs that have yet to be addressed does not mean the engine in effed.

 

2) maybe the group of 30 good players should get 20 more players... duh...

 

3) point three defeats your second point as it points out a lack of organization NOT a broken mechanic.

 

4) How so? Did you just make a statement without anything to back it up?

 

5) Did you even watch the movies? Really? Looks like someone needs to go back and look again, I remember a large amount of scenes in the movies with massive army on army battles.

 

6) Just play the game and stop complaining...

 

stop saying retarded sht i bet ur a bad backpedalling imperial player like ones i wreck 1v2 1v3 in my server

 

 

"get 20 more players, duh"? u even know how bad it is to be a republic when most servers imps outnumber u 5:1 ?? if you get 20 more players, they will respond by getting 100 more.

 

sad reality is, imperials like you tend to be really bad players, so theyll never even engage you unless they have at least 3:1+ ratio

 

R3tard.

 

 

(sigh another reason to take away posting privileges from bad players in pvp forums... all they do is troll, whine, nerf this nerf that, and ruin the game for everybody)

Edited February 15, 2012 by Mirialol

[Baalazar]

hm perhaps that is true

 

 

but i think 1~4 are good reasons to not add another ilum to this game / put all world pvp on 1 planet :s

 

I dont' think any of the pvp should be ever limited to one planet but it would be nice to have massive pvp battles regardless of world, such as the empire raiding coruscant, or vice versa for republic.

 

Given time can't the hero engine be better modified to fit massive pvp?

 

Not really sure about the engine they use just have heard bad stuff about it from everybody.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Baalazar